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What Made SSB Succeed Whereas Others Fail?

peachy!

super princess
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
291
Location
Germany
I think PSASBR is... okay. It's a solid first entry in a series that will likely never continue, which is a shame. Problem is, game like this are half-roster hype, and they would have had more of that if they could have gotten some of the characters they wanted (Crash, Spyro, Lara... I think I read they asked Square-Enix if they could use Sora). Might've helped sales, which would have boosted the DLC sales, which could have ensured a sequel in time to compete with Smash 4. Guess it wasn't meant to be.

Also, the game seriously needed more modes. It did get tedious after a while in a way that Smash never does. I get that they didn;t want to rip off Smash whole sale - you could argue that they did in concept, but not really execution - but it just wasn't as fun or frantic as Smash.
I agree wholeheartedly. The game was a very entertaining game, at least to me, but it lacked content in various areas.

The most iconic PlayStation characters are third-party, and this is not the case for Nintendo. They can easily build a game with a huge roster made up of their popular characters, because they all belong to them.

Also, Smash is that kind of game that is easy to merely pick up and play. It appeals to a wide audience, both casual and competitive gamers.
 

Houndstooth

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
808
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Alabama
As a big TMNT fan, I was disappointed with Smash-Up. The lack of characters that fans wanted hurt it. No Bebop and Rocksteady? The stages were also terrible. I believe Dojo was the only stage that had any sort of balance to it. As others have said, it just wasn't as polished as SSB was.
 

8-peacock-8

Smash Hero
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The only Smash clone games i know that succeeded were Jump Super Stars and Jump Ultimate Stars.

The two games did really well. (Although nintendo worked on both (hired by shueisha to make them) and they were Japan only. So they shouldn't count)
I agree wholeheartedly. The game was a very entertaining game, at least to me, but it lacked content in various areas.

The most iconic PlayStation characters are third-party, and this is not the case for Nintendo. They can easily build a game with a huge roster made up of their popular characters, because they all belong to them.

Also, Smash is that kind of game that is easy to merely pick up and play. It appeals to a wide audience, both casual and competitive gamers.
Also agree with this.
 
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Arcadenik

Smash Legend
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For me... characters, stages, items, and gameplay... come together, they make Smash successful...

I am neutral on music... I am deaf.
 

CoryCory

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
22
I posted in another thread only knowing of two games close enough to being "Smash Bros. Clones" and now know of a bunch but I'd imagine none of those games have the charm, focus or polish Smash had. To me it comes to one phrase... "Often imitated, never duplicated." Perhaps there was a game before it in the same vein but that game would be Wolfenstein to Smash's DooM IMO.

The minute I saw the commercial for the first Smash game I knew it'd be different just on the cross-over element alone (Yeah, DK appeared in the odd Mario kart or party game here but never on the level like this at the time.) but the excellent gameplay right from the get-go kept it from being a throw-away novelty game. Topped off with great interpretations on the respective series' in terms of stages, items and music, a willingness and encouragement to go outside the box and embrace weirdness if needed (Ness, Game & Watch, and ROB come to mind here), the culture shock element for japanophiles (Would Fire Emblem have made it to the U.S. if not for Smash Bros.?) to get people curious on the history of Nintendo unknown to the western casual masses and the general all-star feel makes it a series that only in three games left a huge impression on the gaming world.
 

PadWarrior

Smash Ace
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Smasboards suck
Anyone play the TMNT Smash up game? It's basically a Smash clone.
 

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
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okay this post is basically why ssbm was the most memorable game I played.

Imagine, I'm 7-8 with a GC; I played some of n64 games but only some and by that I mean I did not know anything about the best franchise of nintendo. So, when I played ssbm my first reaction to this was more like "it's fun" or "I can't believe how this game has alot of content" and it goes on and on as I unlock things. But the thing is, this is doesn't even explain why this game is a masterpiece sure I played this game for years without getting sick of (and still don't today). First, because I didn't know english that much, it took me years before I saw the true reality about the this game.

Does anyone remember the "history behind super smash bros melee" videos serie on youtube? I watched them years after I sold my GC (btw I bought one after realizing my mistake) and those videos literally blew my mind not because they were good but because of the content explained. I learned that the main goal of ssbm was to put all the nintendo universe with all the series i love today and show what they are and why we love it today. But the the thing is, those elements were here IN PRECISE DETAIL I was surprised after seeing how much detail and interest was put into this game heck it teach me the whole nintendo universe! I didn't even knew who ganondorf was.

What I'm trying to tell is for me, this crossover was memorable for me because not only it brings me fun and enjoyment but it also opened the gate to all the best creation in the video game industry and as a nintendo fan, it also told me the reason why the experience with the game and innovation is the best thing to have in a game. Sadly, I tend to believe that modern games forget those concept...
 

D-idara

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If Smash only succeeded because of the chars, because they're memorable, then Cartoon Network: Punch-Time Explosion! Would've been a big hit, since Cartoon Network's character roster includes some of the most memorable characters of all time, all this considering that the game didn't even have newcomers Finn & Jake, Mordecai & Rigby, Gumball & Darwin, Steven Universe & The Gems, etc.
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
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Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
Digimon Rumble Arena had two major failings:
1) it was overly simple and spammy.
2) it had an RPS thing going on with elements to destroy matchup balance.

The second could easily be overlooked and the first was hardly unexpected from a game that old. I mean, SSB 64 wasn't exactly perfect in move balancing either.
Then we get to Digimon Rumble Arena 2:
1) needlessly long load times. Combine this with digivolutions and characters could lose whole stocks while others were untouchable in 3 or 4 player matches.
2) no fix to the spamminess.
3) falls lead to an auto-KO. In a game that's supposed to focus on the healthbars and thus has nearly zero recovery potential, that is bad.
4) slow and clunky gameplay.
5) the main gimmick is often sub-optimal. Digivolving with some characters gets you killed due to the rookie having a cheaper, more versatile or simply more familiar moveset.
6) the advantages are permanent. If a player gets to form 3, they will almost never be a rookie again. This gives further advantage to the player who's winning, unlike the timed transformations in the first game.
7) needless clones. Sure, Black Wargreymon is an iconic character, make his mid-form Skull Greymon. Black Guilmon makes zero sense, yellow Guilmon has actual reason to exist and would allow the regular version to have Megidramon for Mega. The only alternate form of Gabumon with any canon to it was ShadowWereGarurumon, whom they didn't even include in Black Gabumon's tree.

For a good game, try playing single player with Patamon only, never Digivolving or using throws.
It's a shame the rest of the game wasn't made that well.
 

Violenceman

Smash Journeyman
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but really the ultimate killer of all those games, and the point brought up by the Microsoft head, is that Smash succeeds because everyone knows and loves a majority of the characters. We've basically grown up with them and are absolutely familiar with all the little nuances about the character. also helps that Nintendo is the most popular gaming company out there.
I actually think attributing it mostly to nostalgia actually does a bit of a disservice to Nintendo, because it goes a bit deeper than that. Even if Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all debuted at the same time, Nintendo would still have the best shot at a smash game due to how the structure their franchises. Sony and Microsoft base their franchises and brands around titles, while Nintendo bases theirs on characters.

For instance, if I said the name "Gabriel Logan", a lot of gamers would look at me blankly, even though he has been the star of 6 Playstation games. However, if I said instead "Syphon Filter", I'm sure there would be much more recognition. And you see that throughout the roster of PASBR; Spike, Nariko, and Colonel Radec would all be better recognized as Kid From Ape Escape, Chick From Heavenly Sword, and Guy From Killzone 2.

Nintendo, on the other hand, put much more focus on their characters. They have a tendency to incorporate their IPs into games that was never even meant for them (StarFox Adventures, Kirby's Epic Yarn, etc.) and most of the series' are named after the title characters; Mario Bros, Legend of Zelda, Kirby, Pikmin, etc. The characters take the forefront at all times (by comparison, only 4 characters in the PASBR roster are titular) and you can see the effect easily. Mario has re-invented its own flagship series over and over (most recently: Galaxy, 3D Land/World, NSMB) with each one being different in many ways, but they are always categorized as "A new Mario game".

So it is more than just "Nintendo has been around a long time and got hooks in us as kids" (although that is for sure a factor); Smash Bros works so well for Nintendo because it specially formatted to how Nintendo handles its main franchises and Sony and Microsoft would be at a tactical disadvantage no matter when their games and characters were created.
 

praline

the white witch
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I think it works better because Nintendo owns most of the game series that everyone knows about whether they play it or not. Everyone knows Mario, everyone knows Pokemon, everyone knows Zelda, and Kirby, etc.
 

CrossoverMan

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
588
I think it works better because Nintendo owns most of the game series that everyone knows about whether they play it or not. Everyone knows Mario, everyone knows Pokemon, everyone knows Zelda, and Kirby, etc.
But everyone knows Powerpuff Girls, Dexter's Laboratory and Johnny Bravo.
 

ryuu seika

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My argument would be that most Smash clones focus solely on bring the characters together. Smash brought the characters together but also had as good effort put into its gameplay that just doesn't feel like it's there in competitors.
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Hero
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Oct 17, 2007
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Ireland
Well Smash Bros was the original, even if your copycat is great it can be difficult to surpass the original in the eyes of the fans.

That's without even mentioning that smash Bros has a stellar cast, it would be incredibly difficult (if not impossible with the addition of Megaman) to create a smash clone with a more star studded cast.

Personally I would buy a smash clone if it had high production values AND a cast of characters I cared about. Same with Pokemon clones really (if the monster designs rivaled pokemon designs I'd be totally on board, but that never happens), I don't feel a strong stigma against copycats. If anything it's the "quick cash in" vibe I get from them that puts me off them, not that they copied another game. The fact that they had an easy time formulating (copying) the basic concept of their game and then never bothered to pour the love and effort they hardly used (from copying) into trying to prove themselves, into trying to rival the game they were born from. That's what bothers me most about copycats.

Starting to ramble a little, so I'll stop here.
 
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Justin Bailey

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
39
Long answer: Not just because it's a huge Nintendo crossover, but it's controls and game play.

Short answer: People love crossovers, RIGHT MAHVEL?!

My answer: Samus.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
Joined
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Messages
9,187
The roster of famous characters... and the simple design.
 

9Volt

Smash Journeyman
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But everyone knows Powerpuff Girls, Dexter's Laboratory and Johnny Bravo.
Video games have a better reach tham cartoons like this, my little cousin don´t know these but he knows mario, link and pikachu.

Dexter and Johnny still on the air?
 

MasterofMonster

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
4,418
Everyone has already explained all the reasons so well, so I won't repeat. ^^

But Another thing that Smash just does better than PSAS, is simply the massive detail. Example. Jump twice in Smash, and the character has two unique jump animations (save for Ice Climbers and MegaMan, but they have reasons for that cuz' of their Retro origin). Jump tilting just slightly backwards, and they have two additional unique jumping animations. Also, tilt a Little when falling, and the character will change animations and move in that direction. In PSABR, from what I've seen, they have two jumps, but they are the same jumps. They also don't move in the air depending in how you tilt.
While this of course doesn't make All-Stars a bad game, it's just one example of the massive detail Smash makes for it's characters. PSABR just feels so very stiff and lifeless.

That, plus of course what others said, well-known characters, massive amount of details and variation, items, stages, etc etc.
 

Tornado_Man

Smash Lord
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Smash Bros succeeds because it's rougher than the rest of them, the best of them, tougher than leather.

....kidding. But the stage variety, the memorable and incredible music, massive roster of awesome Nintendo characters including important third parties like Sonic and Mega Man, all the extra modes and unlockables to push you to keep playing, then the undeniably addicting multiplayer mode? That's a lot to note right there. Should I also just throw in that it was the first crossover fighting game (I think, don't hold me to that) so all others were mostly overshadowed by it?

Or you could just say Smash is perfect. That's an acceptable answer.
 

ChikoLad

Purple Boi
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Jan 11, 2014
Messages
23,084
PSABR was actually very good and very fun, and it did attract quite a number of fans. I wouldn't call it a complete failure, but a semi-failure, semi-success.

It succeeded in being an actually fun alternative to Smash. If someone was playing Smash with me for a while, but got bored and wanted to switch to PSABR, I wouldn't mind at all. It's a fun game that I really wouldn't mind playing, and there is depth to it. Sure, it's not super fast like Melee, but that's not what fighting games have to be about. PSBAR has it's own kind of depth to it and you can pull off insane combos if you practice. I still don't think it's as deep as Melee, but I do think PSABR is the much better choice for those who would rather play a more strategic game, without all of the split second inputs that are required for Melee competitive play. PSABR has objectively better teaching tools for it's competitive play too, meaning it's a lot easier to get into than Melee, where the majority of advanced techniques are not actually taught to you, but are the result of exploits in the code that were either accidentally found and left there intentionally by developers, or were never found at all, and just slipped through testing. Nobody can deny that to get into Melee's competitive play (or Smash's in general), you have to do a lot of online research, or you have to live in a community with a competitive scene that would allow you to discuss the game and it's advanced techniques. The game has tools for practice, but not for actually teaching you anything beyond the basics. PSABR went to great lengths to teach you how to play at an advanced level, and it even had a few sample combos for each character that taught you how their attacks worked when it came to linking up different moves. And even forgetting the competitive side, it's a very fun game to just casually play with friends. The items are fun to use, and the stage hazards are actually really cool.

I also think there are a few other things that Smash could learn from PSABR. For example, the ability to turn stage hazards off. I read one interview where Sakurai scoffed at this idea (then again, his response was vague, so maybe he didn't mean it in a snarky way), but I wholly disagree, the ability to turn stage hazards off would be a god send for competitive Smash (though I know Sakurai doesn't think too heavily about the competitive scene). Due to the strict rules of stage legalisation, the variety of stages I could play on in a Smash tournament is very tiny. In fact, the universally legal stages across all three Smash games is less than the amount of stages in PSABR. And after doing a quick check, PSABR's stages are generally considered to all be legal because you can turn off the hazards.

PSABR also had a neat mechanic that allowed you to control which direction you faced after performing a dodge roll, while Smash forces you to face a particular direction depending on what type of roll you use. I think a mechanic like that would be a nice addition to Smash, and I'm sure competitive players would be all over it, as it increases the options you have when coming out of a dodge roll.

I also really liked the "Rivals" idea and the little cutscenes the characters had, and while I won't bet on it, I really would like to see something like that in Smash 4.

And of course, PSABR had alternative costumes for each character, multiple ones in fact. And that's on top of the standard recolours we are used to in Smash. I really feel Smash has no excuse not to have this feature at this point, it was really teasing how only Wario, Pikachu, and Jigglypuff were the only ones who had them in Brawl.

However, PSABR failed in the sense that it failed to have many key characters. While it did surprise me in bringing back classics like Parappa (complete with his original voice actor), and Sir Daniel, and had pretty much all of the key reps from the PS2 and PS3 era (and adding Kat from Gravity Rush as DLC was also a neat move, as she is a really cool character and her game is awesome), it was missing key characters from the PS1 era, mainly the likes of Crash, Spyro, and Tomba. The third party reps were also very odd choices for the most part. The only ones I thought made sense were Heihachi and Raiden (who was an understandable replacement for Snake). And while I understand that this is not the fault of the developers and is due to complicated licensing issues, it still was a huge shame, and the third party reps they got felt like they had little to do with Playstation, for the most part.

It also was being developed by inexperienced developers, and while they did very well, it doesn't compare to what veterans like Sakurai can accomplish, which is why the game's balancing was so debatable and needed so much patching. And while it did well enough in terms of the AMOUNT of people who bought it, meaning a lot of people liked it enough to buy it, Sony spent more money on the game than the sales justified. Kinda like what happened with the Tomb Raider reboot.
 

Norm

Smash Lord
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It's not really that hard to see why it succeeded it was a fanboy/fangirls wet dream all of Nintendo's iconic characters coming together to beat on each other.

So it has a swath of well known well liked characters. Combine that with easy to pick up and play controls that actually contain a surprising amount of depth. For those of us who actually like to get down to some hardcore smashes vs the casual any stage all items smashes. Not knocking casual smashes either. I like both and that's what makes the game so enjoyable. I can play with anyone and have a good time. If they're not so good at it, play more casually, if they are good at it play more serious. Then there's all the creative stage designs, item designs, character move set design that highlight what the characters are known for. Everything about the game is fun. Plus then you add in a **** tonne of collectibles that actually add to the game new music, trophies you can go look at and read information about them, etc... It makes for a complete gaming experience.

That and catching someone with a falcon punch or knee and watching them rocket off the stage to death well; that's just a thing of beauty hehe.
 

CrossoverMan

Smash Ace
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Aug 25, 2013
Messages
588
For the love of god, why does everyone ***** about PSABR not having Crash? Granted, he is a key character in the PS1 and PS2 era, but what would he add to the game? Crash's fighting style would be two generic.

As for Spyro, I would actually like him to be in, but not ******** Skylanders Spyro. Anything but that.
 
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