What if you could choose the future meta game for smash 4?

[clydeaker]

lately i've noticed a lot of new threads talking about the Meta game and many people agree and disagree. What if the competitive norm changes for Smash 4 to incorporate the following things:
- Custom Moves.
- Custom Equipment.
- Custom Stages: Custom Stage Project.
- Special Smash Heavy Gravity: Smooth Lander & Heavy Gravity.
- Legal Walk-off Stages: Walkoffs.
- Legal Transforming Stages: Mario Circuit, Pokemon Stadium 2, Wuhu Island,
- Legal Items: Item Standard Play Ruleset.
- Mii Fighters Allowed: Competitive Mii Fighter: How this character should be allowed (custom off).
- 3 Stock used over 2 Stock: Is there any data proving 2 stock is faster than 3 stock?
- 4v4 in 8 Player smash.

I know some of you will still only play Omega/ Final Destination stages, No items, 2 Stock, 6 Min, No customs, Default vanilla plane old boring For Glory mode Smash 4 by yourself in your basement. (you know who you are)
BUT
What if this were the future of competitive smash 4?

If you could choose the future meta game rule set for competitive smash 4 what would it be?

 

[Pyr]

Custom Equipment can't work fundamentally. Custom Moves is just barely working, but I don't see it lasting forever. Custom Stages will be hit or miss, and will most likely fail due to inconsistency and because there is nothing fundamentally wrong with our current stage lists. Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity will never be part of competitive Smash 4 besides being a side event at most.

Honestly, we have a solid ruleset for now. 2 or 3 stocks and some stage legality are the major issues, as are making the Miis work in a custom off format. Besides those issues, though, we have a relatively stable and decently malleable ruleset that should form the bases of the ruleset that the game will end with, whatever ruleset that ends up being.

So, just for clarity sake:

- Custom Moves = Barely works and won't last imo.
- Custom Equipment = Can't work on a fundamental level.
- Custom Stages: = Likely won't stick due to the current stages not being bad and a decent variety existing.
- Special Smash Heavy Gravity = Will never be competitive standard and shall only ever be a side event.
- Legal Walk-off Stages = Still suck for the same reasons as always. If allowed, give it a few months of abuses/constant bans/strikes to be rebanned.
- Legal Transforming Stages = Up in the air. Could take it or leave it. I'll likely strike them either way.
- Legal Items = The reason for items being banned hasn't changed and we can't change it. Side events are nice, though.
- Mii Fighters Allowed = Just need to figure out how to do it customs off, which was the aim of the thread.
- 3 Stock used over 2 Stock = There are arguments for both. We'll have to see through testing.
- Smashville banned = Smashville will never be banned. It's music is too OP.
- 4v4 in 8 Player smash = I'm mostly a solo player, so I cannot speak on this.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I honestly would prefer this ruleset over 2 stocks 6 minutes. Nothing against it, and I personally don't mind it, but I played 3 stocks 8 minutes with my friends more often and not only is it more enjoyable to play, but timeouts barely, if not, never happen (From my experience). 3 stocks 8 minutes, while you can still camp effectively, you will get more reward for playing aggressively/risky. I've played mostly risky/aggressively with Falcon and other characters and you can get more consistency and reward in 3 stocks 8 minutes for out-smarting players.

My only 2 complaints about this ruleset are: Smashville being banned (Completely disagree), and walk-off stages (NOT a big fan)!

 

[Riskman]

The year is 21XX. Everybody plays a frame perfect, fully optimized Diddy Kong to the point where victories are decided by Rock-Paper-Scissors over port priority. Item, Customs, and stages that are not Smashville are all banned.

Honestly I don't like most of the stuff on this list, especially the walk-offs, items, equipment and Smashville ban. I'd rather it just stay similar to how it is.

 

[clydeaker]

I removed smashville banned from the list because I realize now thats not exactly what the original thread was about... and it was a stupid idea.

 

[Xermo]

A lot of smash 4 radicals are trying to come up with silly and "competitively viable" options for standardized tourney play. 7 times out of 10, these ideas are all garbage.
Smash 4 will certainly live a short life-span if people can't come to an agreement that playing the game like we've been doing for the past 11 years is the best option, give or take.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

- Custom Moves: I think AmazingAmphoros' Custom Move Project captured it pretty nicely. I'd be fine using that. Just that, however.
- Custom Equipment: No. It's just too much of a hassle for everyone to have access to everything everyone else has.
- Custom Stages: No. See custom equip.
- Special Smash Heavy Gravity: Side events are nice. Competitive meta? Not as much.
- Legal Walk-off Stages: I can't really think of a single walkoff that doesn't give major advantage to certain characters. No.
- Legal Transforming Stages: I like Skyloft. That's it, honestly. Wuhu Island is a little too janky regarding the bending platforms and killer transformations, such as the boat and the easy spikes on the bridge. PKM2's transformations are a little too crazy... Mainly the electric and flying ones.
- Legal Items: Like I, and others said... Side events.
- Mii Fighters Allowed: I honestly really want Miis allowed, I do. I think if they are subject to the same 1111 moveset everyone else is, that's just peachy.
- 3 Stock used over 2 Stock: I'm a 3-stock man myself. So that's how I feel.
- 4v4 in 8 Player smash: Sounds hype to me. I can't see a meta happening out of it, but man that would be cool to watch.

 

[Shouxiao]

Custom Moves - If the community can come and have tournament sets ready then no problem. Also brings variety and can help match ups in the game.

Custom Equipment - No. Too many possible variations.

Custom Stages - No. Too many possible variations.

Special Smash Heavy Gravity - Would be cool but it messes with some characters too much. Some characters recovery becomes super bad.

Legal Walk-off Stages - No things can be exploited too easy

Legal Transforming Stages - depends on the stage. A stage like Pokemon Stadium 2 can be a counterpick

Legal Items - for side events only. Too much RNG. I know some characters like Game & Watch and Peach have RNG but it is little.


Mii Fighters Allowed - yes and there should be a standards for the Miis to use. Standard size and weight. Several different custom movesets should be allowed.


3 Stock used over 2 Stock - 3 Stock over 2 stock. 3 Stock is far more entertaining to watch. 2 Stock has extreme camp potential. 3 stock is way more aggressive. If a stock takes awhile in 2 stock one could simply camp. The player who lost the stock also has to play extra defensive. 3 Stocking someone is way more hype than 2 Stocking someone.


4v4 in 8 Player smash - Likely for side events but it would be hype.

 

[Raijinken]

lately i've noticed a lot of new threads talking about the Meta game and many people agree and disagree. What if the competitive norm changes for Smash 4 to incorporate the following things:
- Custom Moves.
- Custom Equipment.
- Custom Stages: Custom Stage Project.
- Special Smash Heavy Gravity: Smooth Lander & Heavy Gravity.
- Legal Walk-off Stages: Walkoffs.
- Legal Transforming Stages: Mario Circuit, Pokemon Stadium 2, Wuhu Island,
- Legal Items: Item Standard Play Ruleset.
- Mii Fighters Allowed: Competitive Mii Fighter: How this character should be allowed (custom off).
- 3 Stock used over 2 Stock: Is there any data proving 2 stock is faster than 3 stock?
- 4v4 in 8 Player smash.

I know some of you will still only play Omega/ Final Destination stages, No items, 2 Stock, 6 Min, No customs, Default vanilla plane old boring For Glory mode Smash 4 by yourself in your basement. (you know who you are)
BUT
What if this were the future of competitive smash 4?

If you could choose the future meta game rule set for competitive smash 4 what would it be?

Custom Moves 100%.
Custom Equipment I'm still torn on. Some's good, some's bad, and either way it seems like far too large a system to try to build something around when it's all randomly generated besides a handful of achievements.
Custom Stages 100%. I use a lot of these regularly when playing with friends.
Special Smash, no. The mode was very explicitly designed for nonsense.
Walkoffs, maybe. I've yet to be convinced they're stupid (outside of some obvious matchup-induced nonsense), and am open to consideration.
Transforming stages, absolutely. All three of those listed are 100% legal in my opinion, and more besides (Kalos needs some love).
Items, eh, I enjoy them, but can take 'em or leave 'em.
Mii Fighters 100%, just like custom moves. They suck without customs, though, so I feel sorry for anyone who wants to just add three bad characters (customs off) instead of adding two good characters and an eh character (customs on).
3 stocks are so much better than 2 stocks.
I support squad tournaments.

 

[digiholic]

- Mii Fighters Allowed = Just need to figure out how to do it customs off, which was the aim of the thread.

Just want to point out, Mii fighters work exactly the same with customs off. They still get their moves with customs set to OFF.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Custom Moves: Yes. They make matches a little more interesting, and they have been shown to not affect the supposed positions on the "tier list" beyond a few characters such as Palutena and Donkey Kong. I only see certain moves being banned if they become problematic.

Custom Equipment: No. Anything that changes the overall stats of a character should be banned from tournament play.

Custom Stages: If the community can create a standard set of customized stages for tournament play, I wouldn't mind their inclusion.

SLHG: As interesting as it is, I don't see this going anywhere beyond a fun side event at smaller tournaments. If people are already on the fence on custom moves and strongly negative against equipment, you'd be lucky to have this see the light of day at tournaments.

Walkoffs: Chain grabs are no longer a thing in Sm4sh, and I think some stages should be tested in a tournament setting before we consider banning them for good.

Transforming Stages: We should consider testing stages such as Skyloft and Wuhu Island.

Items: No. Beyond side events for Item Standard Play, they should stay out of Sm4sh tournaments.

Mii Fighters: Yes. They're unique in that they're considered separate fighters from the rest of the cast rather than different custom move setups. The community should create standard sizes and movesets for people to use, even if customs themselves aren't allowed. Limiting Mii Fighters to 1111 is an arbitrary nerf.

3 Stocks > 2 Stocks: I would greatly approve of 3 stock 8 minute matches over what we currently have. 2 stocks are fine as long as we get Bo5 instead of Bo3.

4v4 Matches: Crew Battles would be ****ing intense. At least make this a side event at Sm4sh tournaments.

 

[Pyr]

Just want to point out, Mii fighters work exactly the same with customs off. They still get their moves with customs set to OFF.

I know. The big issue is deciding which sets are used in a custom off environment. Are all the evo sets used? Is it 1111, 2222, 3333? It's just the logistics. I'm all for their inclusion.