What if an echo fighter becomes a non-echo fighter (or vice versa) in a sequel?

[kaithehedgefox]

Since Brawl, several former moveset clones have been decloned into semi-clones. Starting in Smash Ultimate, numbers to fighters have been added. But echo fighters are listed as #Xε instead of having their own number slot. This also effects the numbered list of fighters as well. As of now a non-echo fighter can only have one echo fighter. However, it's unknown if an echo fighter, could have an echo echo fighter or so on.

But what if an echo fighter gets decloned and becomes a semi-clone in a sequel. For example, in Smash 6 Daisy's moveset got updated to add more distinction from Peach's moveset. Would that effect the numbering of the list of fighters?

What else could happen? Could the original fighter from which the echo fighter's moveset was derived from, recieve a new echo fighter?

For example, If Proto Man was an echo fighter of Mega Man, but in Smash 6 he gets decloned into a semi-clone. And then Beck becomes an Echo of Mega Man.

 

[Arthur97]

The numbers will probably be ditched going forward. Even if they keep them, it wouldn't be that hard to adjust the numbers. In that case, they should represent their original appearance like I think they should have anyway instead of having them where they don't belong.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'll say if they end up tweaking the movesets, they should update them via appearance instead of the echo status

 

[pupNapoleon]

This is the same topic as in the thread created a few hours prior,
https://smashboards.com/threads/decloning-echoes.483134/#post-23274930

 

[MainJPW]

This has been done.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

This is the same topic as in the thread created a few hours prior,
https://smashboards.com/threads/decloning-echoes.483134/#post-23274930

Actually this thread I've posted is actually about the consequences of decloning echoes not about how they could be decloned.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Regarding echoes going forward, in any capacity, I don't see us getting another Smash that is not a reboot. I'm a pretty imaginative guy, and that isn't the type of future I can see.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

The numbers will probably be ditched going forward. Even if they keep them, it wouldn't be that hard to adjust the numbers. In that case, they should represent their original appearance like I think they should have anyway instead of having them where they don't belong.

Well it wouldn't be so complicated to re-number/list the fighters. So if Richter were to get decloned in Smash 6 into a semi-clone, King K. Rool would become #68, Isabelle would become #69, Incineroar would become #70, and so on.

 

[Arthur97]

Well it wouldn't be so complicated to re-number/list the fighters. So if Richter were to get decloned in Smash 6 into a semi-clone, King K. Rool would become #68, Isabelle would become #69, Piranha Plant would become #70, and so on.

I don''t foresee that happening.

By the way, Plant is already 70 and Incineroar is the current 69.

 

[osby]

Well it wouldn't be so complicated to re-number/list the fighters. So if Richter were to get decloned in Smash 6 into a semi-clone, King K. Rool would become #68, Isabelle would become #69, Incineroar would become #70, and so on.

Ken is already a semi clone and he's still categorized as an echo. I don't think there's any need for new numbers.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Ken is already a semi clone and he's still categorized as an echo. I don't think there's any need for new numbers.

Well actually, we may still need to renumber the fighters. If Ken isn't technically an Echo due to being a semi-clone, he still may be relabeled in Smash 6.

 

[Astroking112]

The numbering system will already face significant challenges if any number of non-Echo fighters are cut, which I fully expect to be the case going forward. If Dr. Mario doesn't return, then will there just be a gap in the numbers?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

The numbering system will already face significant challenges if any number of non-Echo fighters are cut, which I fully expect to be the case going forward. If Dr. Mario doesn't return, then will there just be a gap in the numbers?

I doubt any fighters will be removed from Smash 6 and onward.

 

[Opossum]

I doubt any fighters will be removed from Smash 6 and onward.

They can't keep adding without cuts forever. The entire reason we got so few additions this time was because of bringing back all the veterans.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I would imagine that they would be given a number based on when they were revealed for Smash 4 or Smash Ultimate knocking the numbers of all fighters after them up by one. If we assume no cuts and everyone is decloned, this is what it would look like.

Spoiler

Bear in mind that none of the veterans from Smash 64, Smash Melee, or Smash Brawl would be affected as nobody from their times is currently an echo fighter, so I skipped straight to #54.
54.
55. (28ᵋ)
56. (55)
57. (21ᵋ)
58. (56)
59. (57)
60. (58)
61. (59)
62. (60)
63. (61)
64. (62)
65. (63)
66. (64)
67. (13ᵋ)
68. (65)
69. (66)
70. (66ᵋ)
71. (25ᵋ)
72. (04ᵋ)
73. (67)
74. (68)
75. (60ᵋ)
76. (69)
77. (70)
78. (71)

Then again, the tagline "Everyone Is Here" is kind of Smash Ultimate's thing which is why there even is a numbering system. Because it is unlikely everyone will return in the next smash game, I see it unlikely that we will see the numbering system again. Even if the numbering system did return in Smash 6, that list I made is prone to change because there is a near zero chance that everyone will return in Smash 6 and all the echo fighters will be decloned.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I really don't like how the Echo Fighters throw off the numbering. The characters who have been decloned still retain some similarities to the characters they copied and no Echo Fighter is an exact copy. The status of an Echo Fighter would be a grey area if they weren't officially marked. If I was Sakurai, I would give all the characters their own numbers and not discriminate on how one character is similar to another. But the chances of the next Smash game repeating Ultimate's Everyone is Here thing may be slim considering how at the end of the Fighter Pass, Ultimate would have 82 characters, 15 of which are third-party characters.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

In my opinion, it would make more sense for them to begin grouping similar fighters together to avoid clutter. While I can see some echoes like Dark Samus and Ken being easily decloned I feel like the remaining echoes and semi-clones would be better off being organized in clusters of fighters. I mentioned this a long time ago, but I think it would be a good idea to have something like this: A system of fighters being stacked akin to how echoes/miis can be, where similar fighters are put together. So Marth would have his own fighter slot, and you could use X/Y to scroll through Roy, Lucina, and Chrom, and ZL/ZR to scroll through their costumes.

 

[Sebas22]

I doubt any fighters will be removed from Smash 6 and onward.

As much as I hate to say this, cuts will definitely happen in the next Smash. Not so sure about the Nintendo characters, but I think we'll be missing some of the 3rd parties.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

As much as I hate to say this, cuts will definitely happen in the next Smash. Not so sure about the Nintendo characters, but I think we'll be missing some of the 3rd parties.

If you don't think any first parties will get the ax Corrin says hello.

In all seriousness I can see , any of the echoes, and (one or two of the three) potentially not making it into the next Smash. As for third parties it depends more on their respective companies willingness to work with Nintendo, but I don't doubt Konami will pull some horse crap and we might not see either or in the next game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd be pretty psyched if Dr. Mario and Pichu became Echos in the next game.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

In my opinion, it would make more sense for them to begin grouping similar fighters together to avoid clutter. While I can see some echoes like Dark Samus and Ken being easily decloned I feel like the remaining echoes and semi-clones would be better off being organized in clusters of fighters. I mentioned this a long time ago, but I think it would be a good idea to have something like this: A system of fighters being stacked akin to how echoes/miis can be, where similar fighters are put together. So Marth would have his own fighter slot, and you could use X/Y to scroll through Roy, Lucina, and Chrom, and ZL/ZR to scroll through their costumes.

Or we could just have the similar fighters just being next to each other on the character select screen and be sorted by series. Ultimate's character select does seem to be a bit of a mess when it's not ordered by series. At least the order in which they are introduced to Smash would allow veteran players to know where to look, but the Echoes can throw some people off. Sometimes I'd expect Daisy to be between the Inkling and Ridley until I remember that she's Peach's Echo. And I would expect Ken to be next to Incineroar and not Ryu. That top row with Dark Samus, one of these things is not like the other. Hey, at least we see Lucina next to Marth on the character select screen unlike in Smash 4. If everyone was grouped by series and each series was ordered by the debut of their first fighter in Smash, that should be a good order to look for everybody, right?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Or we could just have the similar fighters just being next to each other on the character select screen and be sorted by series. Ultimate's character select does seem to be a bit of a mess when it's not ordered by series. At least the order in which they are introduced to Smash would allow veteran players to know where to look, but the Echoes can throw some people off. Sometimes I'd expect Daisy to be between the Inkling and Ridley until I remember that she's Peach's Echo. And I would expect Ken to be next to Incineroar and not Ryu. That top row with Dark Samus, one of these things is not like the other. Hey, at least we see Lucina next to Marth on the character select screen unlike in Smash 4. If everyone was grouped by series and each series was ordered by the debut of their first fighter in Smash, that should be a good order to look for everybody, right?

Yeah, that would probably make more sense.