What does brawl have in common with eating hotdogs? (serious topic)

[OddCrow]

/no stupid wiener jokes and stuff...

But I have done it. I have created the perfect analogy to playing competitively vs. "casual".
OK, At a national hot dog eating contest you do not see the contestants putting relish, ketchup, or onions on their hotdogs do you? (items). They might taste better (seem more fun) to you, but that does not make them acceptable for competition. Also, when most of you eat hotdogs you don't SHOVEL it down like crazy. You take your time and eat it like a normal human being. And entering a hotdog contest and calling johns on the people who do shovel them down is ridiculous. Also something that arises is the fact of "double-dogging" a technique where two hotdogs are eaten at once, just because you can't do it does NOT mean it should be banned/illegal. People also dip the buns in water to make them easier to eat. It makes them better at their competition and is essential to win, but, however, you think it's gross and won't try it. And items can sometimes be a random NON-player controlled variable, such as a player being hit with a pillow while trying to eat or someone coming out to help them by eating a hotdog for them. These are variables and are not allowed. Some of these comparisons may be slightly stretched but I hope you can understand it. These people who enter these contests either HAVE to be good and use all the little tricks and whatnot IF THEY WANT TO WIN. But if they want to eat a hotdog casually I'm sure they put ketchup or something on it. But when being, and training to be competitive, you either have to change your idea of what is "fun or fair" to what will win it for you, or just suck it up.

End Moderate wall of text.

NOTES
-I have NOTHING against "casual play"
-I am NOT an elitist
-I in no way promote flaming or bashing of someone who doesn't play like you
-If you were offended by this for a reason other than (lullz hotdoggs = pen0r) than I plead with you to read this again and try to find my underlying meaning.
-If you have any questions or something is unclear please holler at me

 

[plasmatorture]

The same casual argument still applies here, though.
Why would you ruin perfectly good hot dogs by eating them that way?
Eat them the way they were meant to be eaten - as something delicious.


....

 

[OddCrow]

because you want to win, sweet, delicious money.

 

[MajinNecro69]

I like this analogy.

I also read an analogy with Brawl being compared to a sandwich. What a tasty, customizable sandwich that Brawl is.

 

[MajinNecro69]

Sorry, double post

 

[superninja]

daaaahhh, you just made me hungry! And it's midnight here! I hope you're happy...

 

[Ignis]

I don't understand what this has to do with anything. At all.

Congratulations! You've demonstrated a basic literary element. Point, please?

 

[OddCrow]

"Congratulations! You've demonstrated a basic literary element. Point, please?"
Ah sarcasm...one of the great American pastimes.
anyways...
You might know my point if you have been here for more than a month...
For YEARS there have been heated flamewars in which many brave soldiers were lost trying to valiantly (most often stupidly) defend their style of play. This is an analogy which tries to explain to certain casuals why things are as they are.

 

[Ignis]

Eating hot dogs competitively is to eating hot dogs casually as playing SSB competitively is to playing SSB casually? Really?

It's ingenius, really, but I don't think you're focusing on the right issue. Most people (hopefully) understand that competition is more competitive and casual playing is more casual.

 

[plasmatorture]

because you want to win, sweet, delicious money.

Except, to a casual, that's beside the point.
The point is, to a casual, playing a *******ized (in their mind) version of the game for money is unacceptable. They should have competitions over who can make the most delicious hot dog, not who can swallow the most disgusting pieces of fake meat on soggy buns.

 

[StellaNova]

Cool. I like it. Great Job

 

[Whiteface]

The same casual argument still applies here, though.
Why would you ruin perfectly good hot dogs by eating them that way?
Eat them the way they were meant to be eaten - as something delicious.


....

Listen the point is however you prefer to eat your hotdogs the same rule applies.... TO EACH HIS OWN... So if you prefer eating/playing casual keep that to yourself and dont impose it on the competitive scene.

And to the OP................ Dude you're so lucky i've just eaten..... interesting analogy

 

[Sl1th]

Good analogy, I like hotdogs.

weiner

 

[Spellman]

If more people would host hot dog eating tournaments where the rules were that you have the option of putting relish, ketchup, or onions on my hot dog, and that points were awarded for those who decorate their hot dogs the most deliciously, I would attend and eat for money. I would also ensure that said packets were raining from a blimp floating above the competition, and that hucking said packets at my opponents should be fair game if I am opportunistic enough to grab a packet that has landed close enough to me. And if all the ketchup packets fall near my opponent and he starts throwing them back at me, I'm confident that I'm good enough to eat decorated hot dogs faster then my opponent while dodging a barrage of ketchup packets. I would not be afraid to take this belly busting competition to Brinstar Depths, neither. Whaddaya know, a packet full of steroids just dropped from the sky and now I'm impervious to packet throwing. That's karma for ya.

Unfortunately, my dream competition is too high budge and nobody will host it. : (

 

[Arteen]

OK, At a national hot dog eating contest you do not see the contestants putting relish, ketchup, or onions on their hotdogs do you?

But it takes more skill to eat hotdogs with random toppings on them!!!!!11

 

[Gaplka]

If more people would host hot dog eating tournaments where the rules were that you have the option of putting relish, ketchup, or onions on my hot dog, and that points were awarded for those who decorate their hot dogs the most deliciously, I would attend and eat for money. I would also ensure that said packets were raining from a blimp floating above the competition, and that hucking said packets at my opponents should be fair game if I am opportunistic enough to grab a packet that has landed close enough to me. And if all the ketchup packets fall near my opponent and he starts throwing them back at me, I'm confident that I'm good enough to eat decorated hot dogs faster then my opponent while dodging a barrage of ketchup packets. I would not be afraid to take this belly busting competition to Brinstar Depths, neither. Whaddaya know, a packet full of steroids just dropped from the sky and now I'm impervious to packet throwing. That's karma for ya.

Unfortunately, my dream competition is too high budge and nobody will host it. : (

Yes but in Smash you aren't awarded extra points for using items. And you wouldn't throw ketchup at people... It's not nice.

 

[MRX]

Might as well take the **** water in a hot dog eating contest while you are at it. -.-

 

[:034:]

The similarity between hotdogs and Brawl? They both go well with my high-quality Volvic mineral water!

Hahahahahahaha.

Yessssssssssss.

 

[Zeyeth]

The same casual argument still applies here, though.
Why would you ruin perfectly good hot dogs by eating them that way?
Eat them the way they were meant to be eaten - as something delicious.


....

That's the thing casuals don't seem to understand. Who in Sakurai's name decides how hot dogs are SUPPOSED to be eaten?? The consumers of course! I could easily equate the views of some casuals to that of 60s conservatives in regards to computers. Computers were meant for work, not play. But we ALL know how far we went from that, y'know? People always put limits on how things SHOULD be played. One thing you can't really blame a tourny player for.. That's that you don't really see them telling a casual that this is the way the game is supposed to be played. Its just what feels good to them.

You believe that because brawl may have the option of have a **** load of items and what not that its mandatory. You're thinking inside the box. Tourney go-ers are different than casuals because they view Smash as a little more than a game. I believe, to say the least, that its something to be admired.

But it takes more skill to eat hotdogs with random toppings on them!!!!!11

Not really. Just takes a larger stomach. Hey, you could look at it like this. You've got two dudes. They're about to fight. Everyone wants to know who is the better fighter. So the two are going at it, dodging and kicking and flipping and ****.. And BLAM! Someone throws a gun into the arena. Dude 1 picks up the gun and shoots dude 2. Does this tell you that dude 1 was better than dude 2 because he got to the gun faster? Or because dude 2 is t3h 1337 enough to dodge the bullets Jet Li in The One style?

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

They're both awesome. That's all the similarity I need to start eating more hot dogs.

 

[leeray666]

Can it be something else? I don't like Hotdogs.

 

[Seison]

I don't think we really needed an analogy to understand the differences between competitive and casual play, however....

this is an awesome one. looks like you covered all the bases.

*wonders how kobayashi would fare in a smash tourney*

 

[LuLLo]

Well the analogy itself seemed right, but ketchup and onions are not random things that happen in a match, if you leave those things away it's the same as L-cancelling

Ketchup = more food = full stomach
No Ketchup = less food = less full stomach

L-cancelling = less lag = faster play
No L-cancelling = more lag = slower gameplay

You could say NOT taking any ketchup or onions is an Advanced Technique ...and that the ones who refuse to eat without ketchup are the ones that refuse to play with Advanced Techniques, because they take the flavor/fun away...
How's that ?

 

[Tibiaking]

I have a much better analogy.

Let's take a random sport. Baseball, for example. A normal baseball match is playing with the standard tournament settings. It is mostly about skill, only a little luck involved, and the playing field is even.

Now, let's turn items on. The baseball equivalent would be meteors raining down from the sky. Yes, you still have an advantage if you're better, but it's possible that you hit a homerun, start running, and between 3rd and 4th base you get hit by a freaking meteor, and not get a homerun. Or, you catch a ball, and get hit by a freaking meteor, and the opponent scores.

Now, let's play on dumb stages. Instead of a normal playing field, the field is littered with traps. Think you can make that homerun? No, suddenly a wall pops up from the ground to stop that ball. Almost scored a point? No, a pit filled with bloody spikes opens beneath you. Think you can catch that ball? No freaking way, you're getting incinerated by a flamethrower.

Now, let's play timed matches instead of stocked matches. Everybody can activate Bullet-time. Are you winning by one point? Activate bullet time, and make sure neither of the teams can score, and wait out the time.

That is the perfect analogy in my opinion.

 

[-Linko-]

Now, let's play on dumb stages. Instead of a normal playing field, the field is littered with traps. Think you can make that homerun? No, suddenly a wall pops up from the ground to stop that ball. Almost scored a point? No, a pit filled with bloody spikes opens beneath you. Think you can catch that ball? No freaking way, you're getting incinerated by a flamethrower.

Or just imagine that wind starts to blow...

OMG T3H RANDOM UNFAIR WIND MUST BE BANNEN FROM BASEBALL!!!1!

 

[tennisthehilife]

I agree with your hotdog analogy. Melee competitive players play for money so they will pull all the stops to win. No items because its random and distracts from combos and ledge guarding.

Brawl is a new game though, we'll just have to be open.

Casuals v. Competitive why do we have to argue. But you guys have to remember what SmashBoards really is:

First sticky of Brawl Discussion:

NEW MEMBERS READ BEFORE POSTING: General Brawl Boards/Brawl Info FAQ (Updated 2/5)
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=128574

- What Smashboards is/isn’t
• It’s very important to realize what Smash World Forums is and what it is not. If you are new here, it is likely that you are accustomed the forum operations of websites like Gamefaqs, IGN, NSider2, and others. However, it is VITAL that you realize that Smashboards is run very differently than those forums, even though we welcome all new users. SWF is the central website for pretty much every professional Smash Bros. Melee player. Naturally, we get a lot of casual players and new smashers, which is awesome because the SWF community is growing. But the fact still remains that this is the top Smash Bros. forum on the internet. Many of Melee’s ‘advanced techniques’ (such as wavedashing) were originally discovered here, and the same is likely to be true in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Not being mean but just saying:
There are other forums where you can go meet other casuals if you really hate the idea of being competitive: GameFaqs, GameSpot, IGN,... well you can google "Brawl forums". You don't have to be here in this competitive place.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Real men use Sauerkraut.

 

[Mario_ 101]

Wow, idk how you came up with that analogy, but i must admit it is pretty good.

 

[SAMaine]

I have a much better analogy.

Let's take a random sport. Baseball, for example. A normal baseball match is playing with the standard tournament settings. It is mostly about skill, only a little luck involved, and the playing field is even.

Now, let's turn items on. The baseball equivalent would be meteors raining down from the sky. Yes, you still have an advantage if you're better, but it's possible that you hit a homerun, start running, and between 3rd and 4th base you get hit by a freaking meteor, and not get a homerun. Or, you catch a ball, and get hit by a freaking meteor, and the opponent scores.

Now, let's play on dumb stages. Instead of a normal playing field, the field is littered with traps. Think you can make that homerun? No, suddenly a wall pops up from the ground to stop that ball. Almost scored a point? No, a pit filled with bloody spikes opens beneath you. Think you can catch that ball? No freaking way, you're getting incinerated by a flamethrower.

Now, let's play timed matches instead of stocked matches. Everybody can activate Bullet-time. Are you winning by one point? Activate bullet time, and make sure neither of the teams can score, and wait out the time.

That is the perfect analogy in my opinion.

And yet, stuff like that is basis for future sports in movies with names like "Deathball." In the future, ALL items and hazards are on!

 

[Aninymouse]

Competitive Smash has rules. They are decided on laboriously by committee in a democratic manner over a period of time, rather than at once. Rules may be amended, removed or added in time and through the same process. Similar to all competitive sports, e.g. Football, if you want to win, you have to abide by the rules to win.

Not every Smash tournament abides by the suggested ruleset set aside by the Smash Community. However, most tournaments offering up large, expensive prizes will use the suggested ruleset.

Why is this?

Well, what's the "Casual Ruleset?" Is it simply, "anything goes," or is there more to it? Are they all timed stock matches, or are they all high gravity coin matches? No one knows because there is no such ruleset. There is no casual committee. Under the implied but nonexistant casual manifesto, everyone has equal claim to changing the rules, because there aren't any.

I like your post, OP.

 

[Seiko Shashude]

lulz, Nice analogy, =)

 

[Tatsujinken]

I eat hot dogs to win and you cannot stop me from doing so! (ò_ó)

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

I have a much better analogy.

Let's take a random sport. Baseball, for example. A normal baseball match is playing with the standard tournament settings. It is mostly about skill, only a little luck involved, and the playing field is even.

Now, let's turn items on. The baseball equivalent would be meteors raining down from the sky. Yes, you still have an advantage if you're better, but it's possible that you hit a homerun, start running, and between 3rd and 4th base you get hit by a freaking meteor, and not get a homerun. Or, you catch a ball, and get hit by a freaking meteor, and the opponent scores.

Now, let's play on dumb stages. Instead of a normal playing field, the field is littered with traps. Think you can make that homerun? No, suddenly a wall pops up from the ground to stop that ball. Almost scored a point? No, a pit filled with bloody spikes opens beneath you. Think you can catch that ball? No freaking way, you're getting incinerated by a flamethrower.

Now, let's play timed matches instead of stocked matches. Everybody can activate Bullet-time. Are you winning by one point? Activate bullet time, and make sure neither of the teams can score, and wait out the time.

That is the perfect analogy in my opinion.

If you're an idiot. Your whole analogy broke down the second you decided to go to goof factor 5. Random occurrences DO happen in real sports games. Winds cause the ball to veer slightly, some games play in the rain or snow, an athlete could trip and twist an ankle during a big moment.

Heck! Baseball has a RULE that if a fan catches a fly ball, the umpire can rule it as an out! ZOMG FANS SHOULD BE BANNED FROM GOING TO BASEBALL GAMES.

In the end, the analogy in the first post is the best one. Many casual players don't see Smash Bros as a huge tournament thing. And yet people here do. It's the same as a hot dog. I don't eat my hot dogs "tourney" style, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go to a hot dog eating contest and force them to eat a hot dog just the way I like. Likewise, I should hope no tourney hot dog eater forces me to cram it into my mouth just because that's the best way to win a tournament.

So yeah, OddCrow? Great post, really.

 

[Chexr]

Remember all those bugs that came and ****ed over that one team I dont remember in the playoffs last year? Those are items. Wind blowing is the like the tree in Dream Land 64 it really doesnt do anything so nobody cares.

Eating hot dogs competitively is to eating hot dogs casually as playing SSB competitively is to playing SSB casually? Really?

I believe that would be Eating hot dogs competitively is to playing SSB competitively as eating hot dogs casualy is to playing SSB casually. Good try though.

 

[WastingPenguins]

If you're an idiot. Your whole analogy broke down the second you decided to go to goof factor 5. Random occurrences DO happen in real sports games. Winds cause the ball to veer slightly, some games play in the rain or snow, an athlete could trip and twist an ankle during a big moment.

Heck! Baseball has a RULE that if a fan catches a fly ball, the umpire can rule it as an out! ZOMG FANS SHOULD BE BANNED FROM GOING TO BASEBALL GAMES.

In the end, the analogy in the first post is the best one. Many casual players don't see Smash Bros as a huge tournament thing. And yet people here do. It's the same as a hot dog. I don't eat my hot dogs "tourney" style, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go to a hot dog eating contest and force them to eat a hot dog just the way I like. Likewise, I should hope no tourney hot dog eater forces me to cram it into my mouth just because that's the best way to win a tournament.

So yeah, OddCrow? Great post, really.

The sports comparisons like this are so terrible because no one plays baseball in the rain or high winds ON PURPOSE. It happens, yes, but no one WANTS it to happen. Further, no one's turning on sprinklers or installing big gusty fans just for the sake of adding randomness, which is analogous to purposely turning on items.

The hot dog analogy is equally terrible. I don't compete in tournaments and yet I still play with tourney-style settings and rules. Why? Because it's fun and more enjoyable than playing another way, not as training for tournaments. No one sits around double-scarfing soggy hot dogs just because they LIKE to-- they do it specifically as training for competition.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

lullz. hotdoggs=pen0r!


...Okay, I'll shut up now.

 

[Spellman]

Yes but in Smash you aren't awarded extra points for using items. And you wouldn't throw ketchup at people... It's not nice.

In Smash, it's also a stock... not time...
Time matches are points driven. I was just trying to point out that you're usually rewarded for picking up an item in some way, whether it be racking up damage points on your opponents meter.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

The sports comparisons like this are so terrible because no one plays baseball in the rain or high winds ON PURPOSE. It happens, yes, but no one WANTS it to happen. Further, no one's turning on sprinklers or installing big gusty fans just for the sake of adding randomness, which is analogous to purposely turning on items.

The hot dog analogy is equally terrible. I don't compete in tournaments and yet I still play with tourney-style settings and rules. Why? Because it's fun and more enjoyable than playing another way, not as training for tournaments. No one sits around double-scarfing soggy hot dogs just because they LIKE to-- they do it specifically as training for competition.

But that's the thing: Items ARE a part of Smash Bros. Stages with crazy hazards ARE a part of Smash Bros. That's the way a lot of people see it. Thus, they're not adding something that wasn't meant to be into a game that never intended them. These people see it as the opposite - tournament rules taking away or changing the way the game "originally" was.

There are no "casual" baseball rules. There's the rules of baseball - period. Thus, everyone regardless of skill plays baseball the same way.

Smash Bros is different, because the "standard" way to play is so different from the "tournament" way. And thus that's why I see the hot dog analogy working better than a sport or chess one. It admits it's changing something for the sake of competition.

 

[Ojanya]

But I like playing without items, and I like hotdogs with mustard....

 

[WastingPenguins]

But that's the thing: Items ARE a part of Smash Bros. Stages with crazy hazards ARE a part of Smash Bros. That's the way a lot of people see it. Thus, they're not adding something that wasn't meant to be into a game that never intended them. These people see it as the opposite - tournament rules taking away or changing the way the game "originally" was.

There are no "casual" baseball rules. There's the rules of baseball - period. Thus, everyone regardless of skill plays baseball the same way.

Smash Bros is different, because the "standard" way to play is so different from the "tournament" way. And thus that's why I see the hot dog analogy working better than a sport or chess one. It admits it's changing something for the sake of competition.

What are you talking about? There are no official rules of Smash. There are default settings, yes-- but then again, Deathmatch is the default setting in most first-person shooters. Does that mean that people competing in Capture the Flag mode are playing the game in the wrong way? Anyway, no one's denying that tournaments "change something for the sake of competition." What in the world is wrong with that? If you want to compete, OF COURSE you are going to play in the manner you deem most competitive.

Don't tell me that there ARE items in the virtual world where Smash is played. Guess what? There ARE sprinklers and big gusty fans in the real world where baseball is played. You can play with them if you want but they're certainly not conducive to competition.

Arguing over whether playing with items is more or less "competitive" is stupid and pointless because it's entirely subjective, so let's not do that. "Competitive" means something different to everyone. I'm only explaining why I feel that no-items is the more competitive-- there's no way to prove that it definitively IS. The only thing that really exists is YOUR preferred way to play, which is the only way you should play.