What do I do PM folks? (Input Assist woes)

[jackal27]

I hate to admit this, but I prefer playing Project M with the Input Assist turned on so much more than playing it with the buffer off. Everything just feels so natural and I can L cancel, wave dash, etc. no problem at all and easily utilize them effectively in my play...

However, when I have the Input Assist turned off everything just feels so unwieldy and unnatural. I've been playing and practicing with the buffer off for a while, but as somebody who cut their teeth on Brawl and Sm4sh this is just so difficult to get used to. And now that I do have more of a feel for playing without the frame buffer, I'm not even sure I like how it feels in the first place!

Still, I am wanting to build our local Project M scene and I know that Input Assist is a no no for tournament play... Ugh. I just don't know what to do. My frustration peaked tonight when I got a 4 or 5 hit chain grab on a friend with the Input Assist, but when I turned it off, I couldn't even land a single one.

What should I do? Should I just bite the bullet and continue to be terrible (and hurt my hands) with input assist off? Or should I have fun and keep it on? What are your thoughts on Input Assist? Please be kind, I'm honestly trying to get better.

 

[shikamaru12]

When I first started, I did the same thing. I still suck, but I am comfortable without it on now. The trick is to turn it off and practice tech skill with a character that makes it easy. Luigi and Marth could help, and Marth's dair makes for easy l cancel practice. Just try this until you are comfortable with wavedashing, l canceling, etc. with easy characters and then move on to harder characters. Eventually, it becomes muscle memory.

 

[jackal27]

When I first started, I did the same thing. I still suck, but I am comfortable without it on now. The trick is to turn it off and practice tech skill with a character that makes it easy. Luigi and Marth could help, and Marth's dair makes for easy l cancel practice. Just try this until you are comfortable with wavedashing, l canceling, etc. with easy characters and then move on to harder characters. Eventually, it becomes muscle memory.

That's interesting because I didn't know this and kind of just have been naturally gravitating towards Marth recently, particularly practicing L canceling using his dair haha. Once again, I had no idea.

 

[Manaconda]

This is kind of like going to PM only to playing Melee (or so I've heard).

A great way to get used to the way a game with stricter controls feels is to just go cold turkey and grind your way to feeling good at it. If you're still playing Brawl and Sm4sh, you might have to take a break from those until you feel comfortable in PM. It might take a while (like, over a week or two), but after developing better timing habits, it'll be easier switching back and forth between PM and your other favourite smash games.

Take note of what your character would do when playing in general and pay attention to the animations and the instants when you can end that action and begin another action. This is almost certainly what is holding you back when you turn off the frame buffer - you begin actions earlier than you're able to perform them. Information on a character's IASA frames are almost always found in the forums for that character.

For example, if I want to practice Peach's chaingrab on fast-fallers, I'd pay attention to the way she hops as she hits them up with a heart, lands, squats a little, and then stands up straight. Somewhere between 'squats a little' and 'stands up straight' is when she can interrupt the action, and so I try my best to begin my dash. If I end up walking, I know I messed up, but if I dash I know I got it right. After a while of performing certain actions over and over again you won't have to pay attention to animations and the action will become second nature.

Even though playing against bots is bad for practicing playing against real opponents, it's a great way to pass the time while getting used to the new controls. Also, use an indicator to tell you if you're successful or not. In my above example, inputting left or right on the control stick quickly before I regain control of my character buffers a walk, but inputting it after I regain control buffers a dash.

Enjoy the grind, OP.

 

[ECHOnce]

This is kind of like going to PM only to playing Melee (or so I've heard).

Is this an actually thing? Does PM have a slight input buffer over Melee? There are often times where I supposedly input follow-up inputs in sequences too early. Like Melee dash attack inputs sometimes ending up as F-tilts, where I'd have no odd issues like this in PM. Peach's dash seems to come out especially slow/inconsistently in Melee, for whatever reason.

 

[Manaconda]

Is this an actually thing? Does PM have a slight input buffer over Melee? There are often times where I supposedly input follow-up inputs in sequences too early. Like Melee dash attack inputs sometimes ending up as F-tilts, where I'd have no odd issues like this in PM. Peach's dash seems to come out especially slow/inconsistently in Melee, for whatever reason.

Accidentally ftilting instead of dash attacking is a thing all Peach mains do, in both Melee and PM. It's like a curse. Even MacD shakes his head after an ftilt once in a while.

It doesn't come out any slower/faster in Melee than it does in PM. And no, PM doesn't have an input buffer unless you turn it on. Are you used to Melee's control stick sensitivity? It could be that you're actually walking/turning in Melee whereas you'd be dashing while using those same inputs in PM.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Is this an actually thing? Does PM have a slight input buffer over Melee? There are often times where I supposedly input follow-up inputs in sequences too early. Like Melee dash attack inputs sometimes ending up as F-tilts, where I'd have no odd issues like this in PM. Peach's dash seems to come out especially slow/inconsistently in Melee, for whatever reason.

It's melees awful sticks that you have to slam to get any hint of response out of them.

 

[jackal27]

It's melees awful sticks that you have to slam to get any hint of response out of them.

Man, THAT was the reason I couldn't get into Melee as a kid. Thank you for putting it into words. Something about that just felt so awkward.

 

[Celestis]

I never new Buffer existed until Brawl came around. But then Brawl come and spoils everyone with this buffer. Suddenly I noticed a stiffness when going back to Melee.

It's just muscle memory. Your hands and mind are used to the buffer and put in an input when your subconscious thinks it's okay. You just gotta train your hands so to speak.

Consider this, Smash 4 and Brawl have 10 frames of buffer, where as PM assist gives you only 3. You have already adjusted to 3 frames from 10 and say it feels natural. So it means you can adjust. All you need to do is just go a little further, right?

 

[jackal27]

I never new Buffer existed until Brawl came around. But then Brawl come and spoils everyone with this buffer. Suddenly I noticed a stiffness when going back to Melee.

It's just muscle memory. Your hands and mind are used to the buffer and put in an input when your subconscious thinks it's okay. You just gotta train your hands so to speak.

Consider this, Smash 4 and Brawl have 10 frames of buffer, where as PM assist gives you only 3. You have already adjusted to 3 frames from 10 and say it feels natural. So it means you can adjust. All you need to do is just go a little further, right?

That's actually super encouraging. Yeah I guess I don't have that much further to go. I didn't realize the buffer was that much larger in Brawl and 4 geeeeeze

 

[Kati]

yeah imo melee has a tighter window for tilts. Frame data has also been studied and verified that dashing requires more rigorous stick movement in melee.