What do I do against people who dodge roll too much and play over defensively?

[David Galanos]

I'm in an online tournament with Greninja and I versed a Lucario and lost barely because my shield broke. It was close though. I have to verse him again tomorrow and I wanna make sure I have the upper hand. Literally all he'll do is dodge away and use aura sphere, and grab and punch over and over sometimes. So is there any advice against that kind of player or even just Lucario in general? Thanks, I really want to win this tourney, it was arranged differently too so I have to win twice and he only has to win once.

 

[RedBeanPorridge]

I find people who do this really annoying too, especially when you're playing as a really slow character like jigglypuff. I usually have no choice but to roll with them, but that doesn't really help all that much. Jigglypuff's roll is pretty predictable too.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

I'm in an online tournament with Greninja and I versed a Lucario and lost barely because my shield broke. It was close though. I have to verse him again tomorrow and I wanna make sure I have the upper hand. Literally all he'll do is dodge away and use aura sphere, and grab and punch over and over sometimes. So is there any advice against that kind of player or even just Lucario in general? Thanks, I really want to win this tourney, it was arranged differently too so I have to win twice and he only has to win once.

I honestly have no idea what to do against these kinds of players. In Sm4sh rolls are pretty much nonpunishable even if you read them. Sorry,but you might have to be very patient if you want to win against them. Maybe try using a character that can kill early to speed things up.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Those kind of players piss me off...My advice? Abuse the counter and grab attacks. Focus on the quick, less damaging attacks, and just focus on building up damage. (Since it's Lucario you're playing, be careful not to get his damage too high as he will get stronger) The only other thing I can think of is reflect his play style. Play defensively, force him to take initiative. Good luck mate.

 

[Squadaloo]

I find people who do this really annoying too, especially when you're playing as a really slow character like jigglypuff. I usually have no choice but to roll with them, but that doesn't really help all that much. Jigglypuff's roll is pretty predictable too.

Funny enough, I find Jigglypuff to be one of the best characters to deal with this from my experience. You can take to the air to force them to try and chase you (or to dodge projectile spam), you can roll if you need to cover distance quickly, and best yet, if you can anticipate their roll, you can have a rest waiting for them on the other end.

 

[Cowhunter]

A few things you can do are:
1. Learn to be patient. A patient player can be the most punishing player against players who spam dodge. Sometimes just wait before letting go of an attack.

2. Learn to feint attacks. Sometimes all-out pressure isn't the best way to go, even if you can. If you know they roll whenever you approach, then approach them so they'll roll and punish with an appropriate attack depending on the direction they roll (delayed dash attack if away from you, jump back air if they roll towards you).

3. Balance risk vs reward. Occasionally, against defensive opponents, you have to take big risks in order to get strong punishes in. You must always make sure that your risks never go so great as to be something along the lines of you losing a stock, especially since you are uncomfortable against them. However, it is also tempting to take the path of most reward, for obvious reasons. But that often comes with the side effect of massive risks. Remember that you don't have to win right now, if you poke and prod at a defensive player from a safe place then they will eventually have to take great risks themselves, and that's when you get them. So, never forget that a win now is the same as a win two minutes from now, and always balance your risk vs reward.

 

[Spirst]

You're Greninja, right? Try using charged shurikens. They're relatively slow in speed and are multi-hitting so it should be able to catch his rolls. You should also be able to outcamp Lucario's aura sphere with your shurikens and force him to come to you instead. If he starts shielding it, you can run in and grab him. Countering spam like this can be pretty simple once you internalize the pattern and know your options.

 

[Toon612Link]

Because it works on you, and lucario is good for killing players who can't kill at high %. Go to practice mode set lucario to level 9 attack mode with you and him 150% and practice.

 

[RedBeanPorridge]

Funny enough, I find Jigglypuff to be one of the best characters to deal with this from my experience. You can take to the air to force them to try and chase you (or to dodge projectile spam), you can roll if you need to cover distance quickly, and best yet, if you can anticipate their roll, you can have a rest waiting for them on the other end.

You're probably right about all of this so I guess its due to online lag that I have trouble doing anything helpful. Punishing with rest is almost impossible.

 

[vypex]

I'm a Defensive player but not overly defensive i'd say, you have to be when playing someone frail like shiek, but my rolls are mainly to quick dodge and try and quick counter a combo if possible, rolling has been a part of every smash i've played, the new multiple air dodges are what threw me off when i first started, since previously you could no longer defend or even attack after an air dodge, just have to find a way to adapt, if he's rolling charge up your water shruiken while he's rolling away and hit him with it before he can get his aurasphere going, dodge and grab is also another viable strategy, don't dodge and attack though he'll be blocking ready to set up his own counter grab.

 

[David Galanos]

I'm a Defensive player but not overly defensive i'd say, you have to be when playing someone frail like shiek, but my rolls are mainly to quick dodge and try and quick counter a combo if possible, rolling has been a part of every smash i've played, the new multiple air dodges are what threw me off when i first started, since previously you could no longer defend or even attack after an air dodge, just have to find a way to adapt, if he's rolling charge up your water shruiken while he's rolling away and hit him with it before he can get his aurasphere going, dodge and grab is also another viable strategy, don't dodge and attack though he'll be blocking ready to set up his own counter grab.

Well I've mained sheik for a while and I still sorta do and she's amazing at being aggressive, she can be defensive but you don't have to be at all with her.