What changes to Roy (if any) would you like to see in 3.5?

[Binary Clone]

Though Roy probably won't be touched too much, what with the focus being on recoveries, where Roy isn't too strong anyway, what balances, tweaks, or changes would you like to see for our boy?

After starting to play Roy for a while, one thing I really hate is how long he stays in hitstun, but I get that that's also really important to his balance, and I'm probably just not good enough to compensate for it right now. But what I'd really like to get a small buff is his rolling capabilities. A good number of his rolls are just awful, especially forward rolling from his back after falling. Intangibility 6-19 with FAF at 36? What?

Also, his techrolls seem really bad to me, and they make some of his matchups much harder. I couldn't find any frame data for techrolls of other characters, so I don't know how it compares, but I played Captain Faceroll's Sheik in tournament, and after he kicked my ass he told me that there was basically nothing I could do to escape his tech chase grabs, because he didn't even have to predict me; he had time to see and react to which way I was teching and chase off of that, meaning my only options were to tech any way and hope he messes up, or not tech and DI his jabs up and hope I can escape his combo.

 

[Azureflames]

I think people play off Roy's recovery to be worse than it is. It's just that in comparison to others it's not broken good and he lacks the kind of recovery /weight to edgeguard like marth can for instance. I typically don't have many problems with recovering and most people don't realize that Roy's UpB can cover some surprising horizontal distance.

• As for things i'd like to see Roy be able to do i could see the point with his rolling/tech rolling. I despise sheik as a character so i can sympathize =(.
• Maybe make his DownB window a hair longer so it would have some use outside of edgeguarding active hitbox recoveries, although there are some arguments i can agree with to keep it the same.
• Also maybe match his SHFFL Uair hitbox to match his sword swing (although it rarely affects my games all too much, it would be nice for consistancy)

Overall i feel like he's pretty well balanced out as a character. Whenever i play i dont ever think I lose due to a character limitation that needs to be fixed. Typically im in the mindset that i have the tools to outplay my opponent but i just have to play correctly. It's hard for me to really think of any gaping hole in his kit. He has such a strong grab game/neutral game to compensate for his very somewhat lackluster recovery so its all balanced out.

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

Lower the effectiveness of his crouch cancel down tilt and nerf the top tiers.

 

[Binary Clone]

@ Azureflames I definitely agree about the recovery. If you have good DI, Roy lives a really long time, and most of the times when I die early it's just because of bad DI. He's pretty susceptible to gimping, but Blazer is fairly challenging to edgeguard and it goes surprisingly far horizontally, so I don't see much of a problem with that. I suspect that in 3.5 the overall changes to recoveries will mean that Roy's, in comparison to the rest of the cast, is perfectly fine. Even now, I don't have much of a problem with it.

I'm not totally sure I agree about the counter, though. Even if the window for execution is smaller than Ike's and Marth's, it's also waaay more effective, with pretty huge scaling for knockback and damage, all things considered.

Definitely agree on the uair, though. Hitboxes not matching sword swipes is pretty weird.

 

[Azureflames]

@ Binary Clone Totally agree. I kinda mentioned indifferent opinions on counter. I'm fine with it how it is, but I just dont like how situational and underused it is for the most part. It's crazy strong though when it happens. Its like 1.5x damage return with huge knockback so the timing window being low for the outcome makes tons of sense.

With the recovery nerfs in 3.5 i think Roy as well as a lot of other characters that lack the recovery strength will be pseudo buffed in a way. It'll make it easier overall for Roy due to making edgeguarding less necessary/easier for champions like Lucas or diddy who have fairly broken recoveries imo.

 

[ShadowGanon]

There is already a thread similar to this: http://smashboards.com/threads/just-2-changes-i-would-like-to-see-for-roy.353643/

I'm not saying that this shouldn't be here. I'm just pointing it out.

 

[NIFOFD]

I'll preface this by stating that I believe Roy to be one of the most balanced characters in the game so I don't actually know if he needs and changes, but I'll go ahead a list some stuff that has come to mind over time.

First off, I completely agree with Azureflames' analysis of the recovery and would agree that if actually doesn't need to be buffed. With good DI and recovery mixups (limited though they are) I find that I'm able to make it back to stage enough that his recovery isn't a glaring weakness. With the potential recovery nerfs in 3.5, I think Roy will actually look much improved in comparison to the rest of the cast's ridiculous recoveries.

I often with that there were better ways for me to edge guard opponents that weren't so limited to the ledge, but I'll acknowledge that this is a necessary weakness for the character. I would be very open to the idea of making dair's meteor a spike, but there are plenty of good arguments against that citing its role in tech chases and other functions. I'm still undecided on that though.

As a little change I would like to see counter's start up lag be reduced or Roy's hitstun be reduced (the former of which sounds much more balanced). It's been frustrating to read an opponent and still get hit out of counter before it is active (maybe this is just my weakness as a Roy player though). Again I think that this could potentially upset the balance of the character (and the fact that I bring this up after every point just goes to show how well the character was designed).

From a less balance oriented viewpoint, I wish Roy would be given a devastating ranged attack like the SoS has in Fe6. Being able to make an area explode into flames (imagine like a fiery pk pulse) would be extremely cool, but it will never happen. A Roy can dream though...

Also strongly buffing all of Roy's sword attacks, but having the sword of seals break after 20 hits would be hilarious. Having Roy try to finish off the match with an iron sword dealing 2% per hit with no KB would be entertaining.

 

[BrianAure]

wall jumpable roy

 

[Sylnic]

I would love wall jumps on Roy, but I don't think we'll be seeing that anytime soon. The sheer range/coverage on sword users would make that fairly abuse-able.

 

[Binary Clone]

I would love wall jumps on Roy, but I don't think we'll be seeing that anytime soon. The sheer range/coverage on sword users would make that fairly abuse-able.

Ike gets two walljumps, doesn't he?

 

[Taytertot]

maybe slightly (strong emphasis on slightly) more range horizontally on a couple of his fast moves to make up for bad MU's vs. characters who can outspace him. The later games in this set kind of show what i'm talking about where denti walls sethlon out and he ends up having a lot of trouble getting in at all. though this might be too powerful a buff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IgEgu1eDI

 

[menotyou135]

Spike on Dair sweetspot or make it a more powerful meteor so it is almost impossible to cancel at medium-high percents.

 

[Espi]

Could someone tell me why Roy's Dair isn't a spike?

 

[ShadowGanon]

Could someone tell me why Roy's Dair isn't a spike?

Short Answer: The trajectory

Long Answer: Read this material
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Spike
and
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Meteor_smash

Note: Spikes and meteors in PM work like they did in Melee.

 

[CyberZixx]

Roy is great as is, but I would not mind if Flare blade came out a little faster to make it a more reliable combo finisher.

 

[Gale Yamanaka]

I think he's honestly fine as is. He's pretty balanced. The only thing I would really want would be something like having the option of going left and right with blazer (like Kirby final cutter). It would give him an okay OoS and help him be more unpredictable with his recovery. That, however, is pretty superfluous.

 

[SmashLord0]

I would change his A. For a swords man, He should have at least a three or two hit A combo.

 

[Binary Clone]

I think he's honestly fine as is. He's pretty balanced. The only thing I would really want would be something like having the option of going left and right with blazer (like Kirby final cutter). It would give him an okay OoS and help him be more unpredictable with his recovery. That, however, is pretty superfluous.

I'm not sure how well that'd work though, given that you can already "tilt" his blazer pretty far horizontally. I think that would either take the tilting out entirely, or result in a lot of recovery mistakes where you go totally horizontal when you meant to tilt, and I don't think I like either or those.

I would change his A. For a swords man, He should have at least a three or two hit A combo.

So a new jab combo?

That would definitely be nice. As long as the first hit retains it's speed and efficacy of the current jab.

 

[SmashLord0]

A jab combo would definitely make Roy such a better character. It would make him alot better than marth and alot different.

 

[G13_Flux]

Could someone tell me why Roy's Dair isn't a spike?

it doesnt need to be a spike because its use comes out primarily while onstage. its high damage and high BKB mean that its a great combo tool. instead of continuing the juggle, he can bring them back to the ground for high damage and a tech chase set up. alternating between fair to continue combos and dair meteor is a DI mixup, and makes it quite hard for an opponent to escape your combos sometimes. with a spike, roy would not have this versatile combo option. he doesnt need to be a 1 to 1 of marth. hes got more versatile ways to kill onstage anyways, he doesnt need a spike.

A jab combo would definitely make Roy such a better character. It would make him alot better than marth and alot different.

a jab combo wouldnt exactly be a bad design, but i have to say im totally fine with his jab now. its got tons of range for a jab (and at frame 4 to boot!), and it does good damage and is a great defensive move. the tip of it even sets you up for potential follow ups. it fits quite well in his moveset that is so centered around boxing you into his optimal spacing range. additionally, DED basically acts like a jab combo, except a REALLY damn good one at that..

i have to agree mostly with the OP though. the only thing id like to see is roy with a good set of tech rolls. with a character that is at such risk of getting comboed heavily, i think it is a good design to at least give him some sound escape options. that way your opponent has to work to make the right read on his movement, but if you make the right read, then you are highly rewarded since he gets juggled hard. it shouldnt be a freebie. its not like roy has crazy frame 5 OOS options and tons of ways to combat good CCing like the space animals do, and they have great rolls and tech rolls. i think roy deserves to have those good escape options, not because its "fair" but because i think its a better design for his gameplay and MUs.