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What buffs do you think Marth needs?

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Curleh_Mustache

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
30
*Slightly longer range
*Slightly larger tipper sweetspot
* Less ending lag on fair, uair, and bair
* New dash attack animation
* Dair spike sweetspot needs to be larger
* More active hitboxes on fair and upair
* Forward and Up tilt have less ending lag
* Dancing blade connects better
* Longer grab range
* More knockback on Up throw at least KOing at 145%
* New trajectory on down throw for combos
* Less knockback on forward throw (kind of like Roy's)
 
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Jiten

Blade Dancing
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
577
Location
Distortion World
NNID
Serenade_Blade
3DS FC
3067-9036-1684
Well, I wouldn't have that much, but I still wish some more buffs would float our way. I don't think asking for something akin to Melee Marth would really be fun, nor would it even be fair, in my opinion. To emphasize my desire for buffs yet not an exaggeration, I'm going to ask for:

- Slightly more range on some moves (not all) many moves like bair, dair (spike not included) up smash, Shield Breaker; these all have great range already, so I find that just lesser things like grab range, down tilt, uair, these could use a slight more. A lot of people would disagree with me on this, but I feel as if his range is actually quite alright.
- Less landing lag on aerials. You're right, this is a major problem for me, whether I specifically combat it or not. While you could argue that having less endlag on aerials would make him perhaps a little too strong, I believe fair, dair, DB and down tilt could have less lag. Just some personal items on my wish list.
- Dair spike, my biggest and foremost wish. One frame of spiking hitbox isn't a lot to work with, making his dair generally unpractical and somewhat useless for it's original intention. Maybe a few more frames of spiking priorities, less lag, just a bundle of buffs could turn this move upside down. AKA, turn it into a good aerial, really.
- A follow-up throw. Down throw can be jumped out of, forward DI'd away. It's actually quite shocking to me that they didn't give Marth a completely reliable combo throw, and frankly, it just feels kind of silly. Down throw, yeah, maybe a different trajectory, maybe forward throw weaker, some little things I wouldn't mind.

That's really all I want, although I know for a fact that it's asking a lot. I know perhaps none of this will ever fully be granted, but every little step, I appreciate. I didn't however agree with everything you said, with the intent of making this game as balanced and versatile as it can possibly be (which is a completely different, complicated subject)

I think his tipper sweetspots are fine, minus down and up tilts. However, I don't see his hitboxes being worked on - it's not his sweetspot placement that makes Marth a somewhat mediocre character, I think. Nair has been buffed plenty, I think it stands as one of his best moves. Jab already links into grab, which makes it my personal most used move. Dancing Blade, while slow, is like it's Melee counterpart (at least more than Brawl) so, I'm satisfied. Shield Breaker is amazing, with great reach and potential. That said, I'm not a competitive player and have only ever been to one local, so it's most certainly not within any jurisdiction to say what's right, or what's wrong...
 

phantom man

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2015
Messages
208
Easier to hit the tipper, Fair into Fair true combo, Utilt true combo into Nair or Uair (Is that possible already?), have shield breaker break shields even faster. These might seem farfetched, but I think these with help Marth at least a little bit.
 

Adamas

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
32
Location
Great Bend, Kansas
NNID
BackupAdamas
I think down throw into N-air/U-air would be nice. Also, make his Up throw kill at around 150%. Other than that, I think he's okay.
 

Adamas

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
32
Location
Great Bend, Kansas
NNID
BackupAdamas
Well, I wouldn't have that much, but I still wish some more buffs would float our way. I don't think asking for something akin to Melee Marth would really be fun, nor would it even be fair, in my opinion. To emphasize my desire for buffs yet not an exaggeration, I'm going to ask for:

- Slightly more range on some moves (not all) many moves like bair, dair (spike not included) up smash, Shield Breaker; these all have great range already, so I find that just lesser things like grab range, down tilt, uair, these could use a slight more. A lot of people would disagree with me on this, but I feel as if his range is actually quite alright.
- Less landing lag on aerials. You're right, this is a major problem for me, whether I specifically combat it or not. While you could argue that having less endlag on aerials would make him perhaps a little too strong, I believe fair, dair, DB and down tilt could have less lag. Just some personal items on my wish list.
- Dair spike, my biggest and foremost wish. One frame of spiking hitbox isn't a lot to work with, making his dair generally unpractical and somewhat useless for it's original intention. Maybe a few more frames of spiking priorities, less lag, just a bundle of buffs could turn this move upside down. AKA, turn it into a good aerial, really.
- A follow-up throw. Down throw can be jumped out of, forward DI'd away. It's actually quite shocking to me that they didn't give Marth a completely reliable combo throw, and frankly, it just feels kind of silly. Down throw, yeah, maybe a different trajectory, maybe forward throw weaker, some little things I wouldn't mind.

That's really all I want, although I know for a fact that it's asking a lot. I know perhaps none of this will ever fully be granted, but every little step, I appreciate. I didn't however agree with everything you said, with the intent of making this game as balanced and versatile as it can possibly be (which is a completely different, complicated subject)

I think his tipper sweetspots are fine, minus down and up tilts. However, I don't see his hitboxes being worked on - it's not his sweetspot placement that makes Marth a somewhat mediocre character, I think. Nair has been buffed plenty, I think it stands as one of his best moves. Jab already links into grab, which makes it my personal most used move. Dancing Blade, while slow, is like it's Melee counterpart (at least more than Brawl) so, I'm satisfied. Shield Breaker is amazing, with great reach and potential. That said, I'm not a competitive player and have only ever been to one local, so it's most certainly not within any jurisdiction to say what's right, or what's wrong...
Plus everything Chaos Emblem said. Those are actually pretty good points.
 

Tattles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
245
NNID
Goldbit
Why? It looks like you main Marth. Surely there's no trouble in wanting our nerfed fan favorite to get some buffs.
Marth "needs" very few buffs. Half of these statements are actual nonsense, on top of being laughably plentiful.
 
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Jiten

Blade Dancing
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
577
Location
Distortion World
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Serenade_Blade
3DS FC
3067-9036-1684
Marth "needs" very few buffs. Half of these statements are actual nonsense that make no sense, on top of being laughably plentiful.
Oh, I see your point, definitely. Marth doesn't "need" much, I myself disagree with a lot of things the original poster asked for. Recreating Melee Marth would be a disaster, wouldn't it? Maybe we're just greedy, or over exaggerating. Regardless, you're right, I just want some minor revisions to make playing my main more and more enjoyable.
 

BlackCore8

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
121
Location
Florida
NNID
BLCore
The only thing marth needs is a better grab range and less end lag on his smash attacks in my opinion, since marth has trouble killing sometimes. Pretty hard to get a read on an opponent if they play really safe.
 

Curleh_Mustache

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
30
I didn't really mean that he actually NEEDED those kinds of buffs. Just slight buffs that were suggested. Anyways, I re thought about the buffs that would be good.
 

FallenHero

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
641
Location
Bronx, New York
Marth needs better throws. His d throw could use a slight buff, but f throw just needs to be like Roy's f throw. For up throw I feel like it should kill at 135%. His grab range could also use a very slight buff. Dash attack needs to just be like his Melee dash attack. Down smash....I don't know what the hell to do with this thing it just needs to be changed.
 

Ako.

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
65
Location
Nor Cal
NNID
FlippinFilipino
Make his dancing blade fully connect, sometimes my opponent is able to get out or shield in the middle of it.
Reduced knockback on his d throw and b throw for more combo potential. His up throw is fine. and his f throw is fine too. I don't want reduced knockback on his f throw, since i like using it to throw my opponents off stage with it.

I would also like reduced lag on his up tilt.

These buffs should be good enough. I dont want him getting too many buffs.
 

Adamas

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
32
Location
Great Bend, Kansas
NNID
BackupAdamas
Marth needs better throws. His d throw could use a slight buff, but f throw just needs to be like Roy's f throw. For up throw I feel like it should kill at 135%. His grab range could also use a very slight buff. Dash attack needs to just be like his Melee dash attack. Down smash....I don't know what the hell to do with this thing it just needs to be changed.
I think that the forward "swipe" of his down-smash should have more range. Otherwise (to me at least), it is good as is.
 
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