What are your top 10 players?

[menotyou135]

If you were to make a PR for melee, who would be in your top 10 and what order.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

If you were to make a PR for melee, who would be in your top 10 and what order.

Hey! I played you at CEO! Anyway, I'd say

1. Armada
2. PPMD
3. Leffen
4. Hungrybox
5. Mang0
6. Mew2King
7. Axe
8. Westballz
9. Plup
10. Shroomed

Really not 100% about that, would love to hear some opinions on it.

 

[pershona]

1. Armda
2. Leffen
3. Hbox
4. PPMD.
5. Mang0
6. Mew2King.
7. Shroomed
8. Axe
9. Westballz
10.Plup

 

[LegendarySquid]

1. Armada
2. Mang0
3. Hungrybox
4. PPMD
5. Leffen
6. Mew2King
7. Axe
8. Plup
9. not sure
10. not sure

 

[-ACE-]

1. Armada
2. PPMD
3. Hbox
4. Plup
5. Leffen
6. Mango
7. M2K
8. Axe
9. Westballz
10. Shroomed

 

[Schizophrenia]

1. Armada
2.Leffen
3.Mango
4.PPMD
5.M2k
6.Hbox
7.Plup
8.Axe
9.Westballz
10.Shroomed

 

[MudkipUniverse]

1. Armada
2. Leffen
3. Mango
4. Hbox
5. PPMD
6. Plup
7. M2K
8. Axe
9. Westballz
10. Shroomed

 

[menotyou135]

I am going to put mine as well.

1: Armada
2: Mang0
3: Leffen
4: HBox
5: PPMD
6: Plup
7: M2K
8: Axe
9: Westballz
10: PewPewU

 

[ReadBarren]

1. Armada
2. Leffen
3. Mango
4. Hbox
5. PPMD
6. M2K
7. Plup
8. Axe
9. Westballz
10. PewPewU

If it were a PR, a lot of it would be based on attendance and results so GG PPMD and hello Leffen but here's who I think is the best in the world at the moment.

 

[EddyBearr]

1. Armada
2. Leffen
3. PPMD
4. Mango
5. Hungrybox
6. Mew2King
7. Axe
8. Plup
9. WestBallz
10. Lucky

 

[zero sum]

1. leffen
1. armada
3. ppmd?
4. mango
5. hungrybox
6. mew2king
7. plup
8. axe
9. pewpewu
10. don't know. any one of shroomed/wes/maybe lucky seems reasonable

1/2 is such a hard call that i decided not to make it (and depends on how much you value evo i guess/whether you're counting the whole of 2015 or just the summer), 3/4 is a hard call since we just haven't seen much from pp at all (not that we can blame him of course). don't think anything else is really much of an argument. plup by the end of the year could probably rise to 6 or maybe 5 if he performs really well for the remainder of this year but i don't know how likely him placing like 2nd/3rd at the rest of the events this summer is. looking forward to seeing more from him.

 

[Dolla Pills]

1. Leffen
2. Armada
3. Mango
4. Hungrybox
5. PP
6. M2K
7. Plup
8. Axe
9-10. Idk who really deserves this, but I guess PPU and Shroomed

Some justifications:

Spoiler

Armada/Leffen is a hard call, but I'm saying Leffen at number one right now because he was really dominant up until Evo. He may not have won Evo but I don't think he really cared about it. I think he wanted to win some tournaments and prove to everyone that in fact on the level of the other top players. Armada cared much more about Evo. Anyway it's a hard call but that's how I feel.

Mango hasn't won much this year other than his Press Start run and that Australian Tournament as far as I recall, and he got 4th at Apex (second largest a tourney), 5th at Evo (third largest tourney), and 5th at Sandstorm with some other second and third place finishes. Third seems about right for him, to be honest I almost want to place him lower on account of how he's done this year but I can't say anyone else would feel right at number three.

Hungrybox has done well recently, but with him receding from the scene I expect him to drop down a few spots eventually. There's not much to say about Hbox.

PP did not impress me at Evo. He had super close sets with the people on his way into top eight, he did handle Plup though, and then he got 6-0'd out of the tourney by people who we judge to be at his skill level. He's been out of the game for a while, so maybe he will do better when he starts playing more but for now 5th is where he belongs in my book.

Jason is a bit of a wildcard. He definitely has the skill to be at 6 or higher, he just has "baggage." I haven't checked his Twitter or FaceBook recently, but if he has decided to keep playing I would expect him to stay around this spot or maybe get a bit better, but if he quits then obviously he's gonna drop off. Hard to predict what'll happen with him but currently I put him here.

Since switching to Sheik Plup has really been on the rise and I expect him to continue to do well. And who would've thought he would outplace Mango and Leffen at Evo?

Axe has been around this spot forever, and unless he changes from Pikachu he'll probably stay around here forever.

I say PPU and Shroomed because they consistently do well at big events. A lot of people say Westballz here or even higher, but it seems like for every good performance he has two or three tournaments where he does worse than expected. At WTFox he performed right where you would expect, didn't make any upsets and didn't lose to anyone he shouldn't have, and then at Evo he got double three stocked by Ken. He is just a bit too hot and cold for me to want to place him in the top ten.

And yes I did basically just write an essay on this for no reason, idk summer happens

EDIT:
I just checked and two people had Leffen at five. What are the justifications for that?

 

[B-Will]

1. Armada - the most consistent player in 2015 who topped off summer with an Evo 2015 victory
2. Leffen - if he was more consistent, would have him first. however, his poor start to 2015 was too hard for me to overlook, plus his fifth place Evo finish. let's see how he performs the rest of the year.
3. PPMD - hard to rank him since doesn't attend tournaments very often. However, his small sample size has yielded good results, so third he is.
4. Mango - was debating him and hungrybox (both has had a similar year as far as results go, but I gave the nod to the kid simply because of his past achievements.
5. Hungrybox - see above
6. Mew2king - not ready to take him out of the 6th spot. can see him being overtaken in 2016.
7. Axe - was thinking of placing plup here, but axe has been doing this longer than he has. lets see if plup maintains his rise.
8. Plup - amazing player, one of my favorites, can beat a god or two on any given day
9. Westballz - he has the ability to beat any god, and he has the ability to also lose to a mediocre player. his consistency is an issue. placing 13th at evo didn't help his cause. he has huge potential...a glass cannon.
10. this is the hardest of all. there are a handful of players who can make a claim to this spot...sfat, wizzrobe, silent wolf, shroomed, colbol, fly...etc. however, there is one that stands out among the rest, in my opinion, and that is pewpewu. he is the most consistent out of all of them, constantly placing in the top ten in national and internationals, never falling past 17th as far as i know. the other players i have mentioned have the ability to get 33rd at any given tourney. because of this, pewpewu rounds out my top ten!

Any thoughts to my list?

 

[Trainwreckk]

Purposely making a top 10 without the Gods in hopes to remind or inspire your decision on which character you'd chose.
1. Westballz
2. Plup
3. Hax
4. Axe
5. Wizzy
5. S2J
6. Cactuar
7. PPU
8. Fly
9. MacD
9. Bizz
10. aMSa
If Gods were in play.. M2k and Armada would definitely be on this list.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Purposely making a top 10 without the Gods in hopes to remind or inspire your decision on which character you'd chose.
1. Westballz
2. Plup
3. Hax
4. Axe
5. Wizzy
5. S2J
6. Cactuar
7. PPU
8. Fly
9. MacD
9. Bizz
10. aMSa
If Gods were in play.. M2k and Armada would definitely be on this list.

That's a really wacky top ten, do you have reasoning for these? Like for example there's no way you can argue Bizz is in the top ten (even excluding "gods") unless you are talking entertainment value, and he'd probably be number one at that.

 

[Trainwreckk]

Umm.. Yeah.. Some of it is that.. Just folks I enjoy watching with a mixture of skill level.. Shroomed, Silent Wolf, Lucky, SFat, etc would be in here. I love showmanship and style. Also.. That list isn't really in order.. All just preference

 

[Dolla Pills]

Umm.. Yeah.. Some of it is that.. Just folks I enjoy watching with a mixture of skill level.. Shroomed, Silent Wolf, Lucky, SFat, etc would be in here. I love showmanship and style. Also.. That list isn't really in order.. All just preference

Okay I understand, it was just a bit confusing without that context since it doesn't exactly follow the rest of the posts.

 

[B-Will]

1. Armada
2. Leffen
3. PPMD
4. Mango
5. Hungrybox
6. Mew2King
7. Axe
8. Plup
9. WestBallz
10. Lucky

@ EddyBearr We have identical lists except for that #10 spot. I challenge you to convince me that Lucky belongs there and not PewPewU.

 

[B-Will]

Likewise to @ ReadBarren ....you and I have axe and plup in reverse order...i challenge you to convince me that your list is right and ill do the same

 

[FrooTxLuPs]

1. Armada
2. Leffen
3. PPMD
4. Hungrybox
5. Mang0
6. M2K
7. Plup
8. Axe
9. PPU
10. Wballz or Shroomed

 

[EddyBearr]

@ EddyBearr We have identical lists except for that #10 spot. I challenge you to convince me that Lucky belongs there and not PewPewU.

I think Lucky and PewPewU are pretty comparable, but with Lucky getting 5th at TBH4 giving him an edge.

Just before EVO 2015, I would have said Shroomed > Lucky/PewPewU definitively, but now I'm questioning whether his style of Sheik is viable at top level.

Really, I have a hard time seeing why PewPewU would be #10 as opposed to Shroomed, Lucky, Fly, or etc (players who've topped 8 a major while having similar resumes).

 

[Qwenter]

If you were to make a PR for melee, who would be in your top 10 and what order.

1. Armada
2. PPMD
3. Mango
4. Hungrybox
5. Leffen
6. M2K
7. Plus
8. Axe
9. Shroomed
10. Isai/Ken
I put Isai and Ken on here because you didn't really specify which era of Smash and the two of them were probably my favorite players ever. They had basically everything.

 

[Spak]

1. PP
2. Armada
3. Mang0
4. HBox
5. Leffen
6. M2K (now that he's gotten a bit better from his depression)
7. Westballz
8. SFAT/Lucky (both really good Foxes, but Lucky has the edge)
9. PewPewU
10. Axe

Hax would be in there if he hadn't messed up his hand with Fox and kept his head out of the McClouds.

 

[Qwenter]

IMO, PPMD isn't better than Armada, although he is like.. The closest second I've ever seen.

 

[ReadBarren]

Likewise to @ ReadBarren ....you and I have axe and plup in reverse order...i challenge you to convince me that your list is right and ill do the same

I feel like people have slept on plup as of recent; he's taken Mango (almost twice), Hbox, and Leffen but fallen to what we've seen of PPMD (Bo3 and controller problems suck) and m2k (SnS was 3-0 in both winner's finals and grands) and I don't think he's played Armada since switching to Sheik (correct me if I'm wrong). If he can be consistent with a placing like his EVO run for the rest of this year, I definitely think he's worthy of the number 7 spot.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

1. PP
2. Armada
3. Mang0
4. HBox
5. Leffen
6. M2K (now that he's gotten a bit better from his depression)
7. Westballz
8. SFAT/Lucky (both really good Foxes, but Lucky has the edge)
9. PewPewU
10. Axe

Hax would be in there if he hadn't messed up his hand with Fox and kept his head out of the McClouds.

this is a crazy list.

 

[Spak]

this is a crazy list.

Reasoning?

 

[Sp1nda]

1.) Armada
2.) Leffen
3.) PPMD
4.) Mang0
5.) Hungrybox
6.) M2K
7.) Plup
8.) PewPewU
9.) WestBUALZ
10.) Axe

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Reasoning?

SFat, lucky, PPU above Axe
PPMD at first
No Plup

 

[Spak]

SFat, lucky, PPU above Axe
PPMD at first
No Plup

PP just won Apex 2015 (the biggest exclusively Smash tournament of all time) and the reason he isn't higher on a lot of people's rankings is because he just doesn't go to as many tournaments as he used to. Lucky has better overall placings, PPU and SFAT just won EVO 2015 in doubles, and Plup has only won one significant tournament that only had 17 people. Plup is my #11, though.

 

[ReadBarren]

PP just won Apex 2015 (the biggest exclusively Smash tournament of all time) and the reason he isn't higher on a lot of people's rankings is because he just doesn't go to as many tournaments as he used to. Lucky has better overall placings, PPU and SFAT just won EVO 2015 in doubles, and Plup has only won one significant tournament that only had 17 people. Plup is my #11, though.

PP got adapted on at EVO though, I don't think one tournament placing six months ago can set precedent for an entire year

 

[Spak]

PP got adapted on at EVO though, I don't think one tournament placing six months ago can set precedent for an entire year

But he was in winners until top 8, where he got double 3-0'd (but if you look back at the matches, a lot of the matches are REALLY close).

 

[ReadBarren]

But he was in winners until top 8, where he got double 3-0'd (but if you look back at the matches, a lot of the matches are REALLY close).

And Armada was in winners until he won

Side note, I don't think LTC3 affects M2K's spot

 

[Spak]

And Armada was in winners until he won

Side note, I don't think LTC3 affects M2K's spot

Armada and PP are pretty even, but you could say that PP was having a bad day last day of EVO or Armada was having a bad game last set of Apex. Nobody can say for sure which is better, but I am biased towards PP because he lives half an hour away.

 

[Sabre]

1. Armada
2. PPMD
3. Leffen
4. Mang0
5. Hungrybox
6. Mew2king
7. Plup
8. Axe
9. Westballz
10. Shroomed
I think that Armada is pretty clearly number 1 right now, but it could be argued that Leffen or PPMD are number 2, I personally chose to put PPMD higher given that he's outplaced Leffen at every tournament he's attended, but those who put more weight to CEO, FC Return and WTFox than Evo and Apex could definitely put Leffen higher. I think that Hbox is still overall number 5 right now, but that his run at Evo proves that any top player has the potential to win on any given day. I absolutely love M2K, and his recent wins over Westballz and Axe show that he's still a solid player, but I think that unless he can get his head back in the game, he'll quickly be overtaken by players below him who are more focused and driven. Plup is hard to place because since his switch to sheik he's done amazing, but I think its too hasty to put him in the top 6. That said, he's definitely the most likely to break into the top 6 of anyone below them, since since his switch he's beaten Leffen and Mang0 twice each and has taken numerous sets over Hungrybox at locals.
I think that after Plup there is a small skill gap before the next tier of players, I guess you'd call them. Axe has been somewhere between 6th and 8th for years now, and is an absolutely fantastic player. He's consistently solid, but less likely than anyone above him to cause upsets or win a national. Westballz is a wild card. He could be 7th or even higher on a good day, but he's far and away the least consistent of the top players, and it hurts him in a ranking like this.
Shroomed barely edges out players like Hax, Lucky, SFAT and PewPewU for this spot. He was seeded 8th at Evo, and has taken recent sets from Mew2King and Mang0 this year, and to my knowledge none of the others have defeated two such top players this year. That said, his performance at Evo was disappointing, and it could be argued that someone else should surpass him.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

PP just won Apex 2015 (the biggest exclusively Smash tournament of all time) and the reason he isn't higher on a lot of people's rankings is because he just doesn't go to as many tournaments as he used to. Lucky has better overall placings, PPU and SFAT just won EVO 2015 in doubles, and Plup has only won one significant tournament that only had 17 people. Plup is my #11, though.

1. Lucky does not have overall better placings.
2. But that's doubles.
3. Your reasoning for Plup being outside the top 10 is because he has only won 1 tournament... lol
4. PPMD almost lost a ton of sets at Apex and EVO. he got an easy path to 3rd at EVO, going 0-6 against gods. And TBH he'd be lower on a lot of peoples rankings if he went to more tournaments

 

[-ACE-]

call me Long John IV if you want to, but beer honestly got spilled on Plup's controller before top 8. He'd never John about it but it definitely ****ed him a bit.

 

[Spak]

1. Lucky does not have overall better placings.
2. But that's doubles.
3. Your reasoning for Plup being outside the top 10 is because he has only won 1 tournament... lol
4. PPMD almost lost a ton of sets at Apex and EVO. he got an easy path to 3rd at EVO, going 0-6 against gods. And TBH he'd be lower on a lot of peoples rankings if he went to more tournaments

1. I should have said he has more tournament wins. Plup is more consistent, but has only won a big-ish tournament once (it was 17 people, of which 7-ish are notable out of state).

2. The criteria was Smash player, not Singles Smash Player. That's like saying Android isn't good at Smash because all he has are signifigant doubles wins.

3. My reasoning is that based on the play I have observed, Lucky on a good day can be better than Plup is. My proof is tournament wins.

4. Would you call having HugS, SFAT, and Plup an easy bracket for top 16? And as I stated before, like 4 of the matches in the 6-0 against the other gods were REALLY close.

EDIT: Clarified the Plup tourney.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

1. I should have said he has more tournament wins. Plup is more consistent, but has only won a big-ish tournament once (it was 17 people, of which 7-ish are notable out of state).

2. The criteria was Smash player, not Singles Smash Player. That's like saying Android isn't good at Smash because all he has are signifigant doubles wins.

3. My reasoning is that based on the play I have observed, Lucky on a good day can be better than Plup is. My proof is tournament wins.

4. Would you call having HugS, SFAT, and Plup an easy bracket for top 16? And as I stated before, like 4 of the matches in the 6-0 against the other gods were REALLY close.

EDIT: Clarified the Plup tourney.

1. Which tournament was this? That sounds wack af. What kind of tournament has 17 people, 7 of which are NOTABLE out of state?
2. But that's also like saying android is top 20 in the world.
3. Plup has been doing way better than lucky recently. Taking multiple sets off hungrybox, 2 off leffen, and one off mango. Lucky beat HBox at press start, and that's about it. Not saying lucky isn't top 10 material, but he just shouldn't be above Plup.
4. Hugs, SFat and Plup to 3rd place isn't easy? LOL

 

[Dolla Pills]

PP didn't really impress me much at Evo. Let's take a look at the notable sets he played late in bracket:

vs Plup- I don't have much to say, I don't think Plup cared much because he spilled beer all over his controller and it wasn't working quite properly, so I don't put too much stock in PP getting the 2-0.

vs Sfat- PP lost game one and then went to work on Sfat but didn't completely blow him away. I think that's what's to be expected of a top five player more or less. The thing interesting to me about this set is that his Marth punish game was looking really weak for top level, I can't recollect what it was for his Falco but I think it was better. Anyway, he won and I'm not taking his performance away from him, I just don't see it as "holy **** this is a phenomenal player he must be top 2 in the world" type of thing.

vs Hugs- This was a nail biter which easily could've gone either way. In the end PP managed to clutch it (or Hugs just ****ed up with the fsmash at the end, take it how you want it) but I wouldn't say his performance against a maybe top 20 player who just yesterday got destroyed by Alex19 is indicative of being number one in the world.

vs Armada and Hbox- aaaand as soon as he gets to people supposedly at his skill level he gets promptly 6-0'd out of the tournament. The games were close so it wasn't complete destruction but he still didn't take a single game against them. That's definitely not top one material.

And you can't really say he was having a bad day because no one has seen him play in 6 months. If he actually goes to tourneys maybe we will see him rise to be top 2 again, but as for now I don't think it's justifiable.

Also I can't get behind people putting Leffen at fifth, but whatever.