What Are Some Practical Uses of Counter And DED?

[Guineapig126]

As with everyone here, I've been fooling around with Roy since release. I wouldn't call myself the most... competitively inclined player, but there's two moves that even playing casually against my friends, I can't find a use for.

DED and Counter.

One of the reasons I don't use DED is that I have a lot of issues with doing up/down inputs and I jab the B button too fast. But even when I try to use the move, It'll get dodged and punished. I see all of these people using the move so creatively, and I would just like to know, "What are the best uses of the move?" "When should I use it?" "How do I get better at doing the move's inputs?"

My issue with counter is, again, the input issue I have with doing down moves. (I'll use Pound with Jiggs instead of Rest and with Roy I'll DED instead of countering.) I also just tend to not use it for anything when I know every move on a character has a certain niche. If anyone could help me out with some tips and information it would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. If this info is somewhere else and I didn't see it, it's a mixture of me being lazy, my noobness with forums, and my tendency to miss things when reading.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I pretty much only use DED in two situations, the first is as a followup from fthrow at 0% (or really low %) which is a true combo, and the other is.. whenever I can or I find it a good option, honestly. Sometimes you want something to put your opponent off-stage/in the air and you can't get a tilt or up throw is not enough, DED angled upwards or forwards is perfect in this scenario because it's easy to space around the first hit of DED and get it to connect.

As for counter, Roy's counter in particular is pretty bad so I rarely if ever use it. Only use it as a guess or a hard read. Sometimes it's rewarding, sometimes it's not. Been looking into countering some recoveries (marcina/fox/falco) but I'm not sure if that's worth it.

As for actually inputting DED, just practice with it until you get it right. You're not supposed to be mashing the special button, just hit it once to do each move. Slow enough so that the next hit of DED will connect, but fast enough so that it combos and your opponents can't get out. Practice in training until you get it right, shouldn't be hard.

 

[guedes the brawler]

i'm trying to apply wavebounces to my game of Flare Blade and DED and i'm liking the results so far. applying mobility to these moves is pretty interesting.

side-side-down-down DED has big sheildbreaking potential. i know that landing a down tilt and following with that DED is a sure shield break.

it's also interesting to start DED from midair. you need to wait for Roy to land before being able to continue the chain, since that takes a bi most people think you can be punished.

counter is interesting when people are trying bigger punishes to kill you. but you should study your opponent before trying that, so this is mostly a game 2 kind of thing

 

[Christobelle]

Counter's pretty reliable when reading a recovery w. a hitbox. Other then that it seems best for hard reads... Study your opponent!

I use a "fast" DED when the opponent rushes forward almost as if it were a jab.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Counter's pretty reliable when reading a recovery w. a hitbox. Other then that it seems best for hard reads... Study your opponent!

I use a "fast" DED when the opponent rushes forward almost as if it were a jab.

ah yes, it's also good if you know they won't sweetspot the ledge (and aren't falcon/dorf)

good idea, DED as a jab. since his is a single move DED is thee best option when one neeeds a jab

 

[Seraphim.]

I mainly use DED to punish spotdodges of if they airdodge after I FThrow them, if you're having trouble with inputting DED just practice the move to get used to the rhythm. I rarely ever use counter since it hardly works against good people, the only time I use it is to try to counter a recovery move.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I have a lot of success using DED toward the ledge on opponents trying to recover, and dashing away to bait a chase only to DED toward them when they get closer. I tend to use counter in place of perfect shielding/shielding vs strong hits, its pointless to counter weak hits because damage scales off of the opponents attack. It's also good to counter sometimes as you're falling on an enemy using their anti air or juggle attack, although the timing is a bit tricky.

 

[ViviLion]

i've found that tilting the last 2 hits of DED downwards can break a characters shield if you hit with sweetspots, i managed to break a links shield at the start of the match by running up and hopping over an arrow into it and sending it out blazingly fast, and he shielded the entire thing, and his shield broke, which let me fully charge a flare blade and OHKO him, i'm actually not sure if it was just a fluke though, i've been wanting to test it more on very character

if you can't actually input DED quickly, the opponent may be able to interrupt you in between the slashes with a jab, uptilt, or side tilt, if you find your DED being read and interrupted a lot, you can actually just start using counter at the timing you struggle with, or when you know you're about to get punished, i've won several for glory matches by just using that to my advantage

if you're trying to learn how to input DED faster, you can do what i did and take a speedy lvl 9 cpu into training mode, and set the timing to slow and learn how to time it properly, and then practice it at full speed, and once you have it down, you can set the cpu to run, and just spend the next few hours trying to rack up damage on them by only using DED

another good use for DED is when you've been launched up high and off the stage, and you can simply fall onto the ledge, if the opponent is edge guarding you, DED can be used to counter intercepts and such (counter has too much cooldown lag and could lead to you falling to your doom) if you've been knocked too far away to just recover by falling towards the ledge, the first strike of DED can be used at the most 3 times to get enough sideways distance to recovery with upB (if you don't have your second jump)

also another great way to use DED is to create some space and charge flare blade a little to try and bait your opponent, since it has pretty much 0 cooldown lag, you can bait your opponent to try and punish you and immediately throw out a DED

also, instead of attacking or grabbing when you're dashing, it's much better to use DED because it immediately stops your forward motion, and in a pinch, it lets you combo into the rest of it, whereas a dash grab or dash attack will have some cooldown lag that you can be punished for, at least with DED you have a chance to hit with 3 extra strikes that can counter a punish

and also remember to be aware of your own damage %, roy benefits heavily off the rage factor and with his already extremely strong knockback, just get's ridiculous amounts of knockback when he's at higher %s, which is also bad if you're trying to use a full DED, you can potentially knock them completely out of it, if you have high %, you need to tilt the 3 hits of DED upwards in order to counter the backwards knockback

also, think of creative ways of using DED, against link, i like to hop over his whirlwind boomerang and use DED as it pulls me into him, it works on pacman with his hydrant hijinks as well

against "throwing stuffs" characters that like to throw something out before approaching you and grabbing you, you can use your jab to block the projectile, and by the time they're close enough to grab you, you can throw out a DED at them

i don't actually have a lot of uses for counter because counter is really just mindgames, you don't want to be using it unless you know your enemies pattern, although, 1 good use of it is to use it when you are forced to fall on top of your opponent, his dair has lots of cooldown lag and a really bad hitbox (imo, i can never hit with it), you can only really use bair and counter to protect yourself while falling on top of your opponent, but it boils down to mindgames again, you have bair, counter, and airdodge, you have to choose one and hope your opponent doesn't read it

counter isn't good in any situation, but it's also good in every situation, you just have to be extremely careful in using counter

 

[ConsummateK]

I mainly use DED to punish spotdodges of if they airdodge after I FThrow them, if you're having trouble with inputting DED just practice the move to get used to the rhythm. I rarely ever use counter since it hardly works against good people, the only time I use it is to try to counter a recovery move.

I like counter for mind games. If I throw out a couple of counters it can alter the way people play, generally causing them to go for a lot of throws almost immediately which can then be punished. I also like using neutral b to bait big moves (yoshi down b, falcon punch, dorf punch etc.) and then countering that. There may be more effective options (actually there almost certainly is...I'm Bronze II on Anther's Ladder) but good lord is it satisfying.

EDIT: And I'll go ahead and ask a dumb questions here, what is DED? From context I'm guessing his side b?

 

[ViviLion]

I
EDIT: And I'll go ahead and ask a dumb questions here, what is DED? From context I'm guessing his side b?

DED is indeed his side special

 

[Perris6]

This is very useful, will be practicing DED a lot and incorporating it in my gameplay.

 

[Perris6]

i'm trying to apply wavebounces to my game of Flare Blade and DED and i'm liking the results so far. applying mobility to these moves is pretty interesting.

side-side-down-down DED has big sheildbreaking potential. i know that landing a down tilt and following with that DED is a sure shield break.

it's also interesting to start DED from midair. you need to wait for Roy to land before being able to continue the chain, since that takes a bi most people think you can be punished.

counter is interesting when people are trying bigger punishes to kill you. but you should study your opponent before trying that, so this is mostly a game 2 kind of thing

Really interested in the use of DED with wavebounce. Can you explain how to perform it?

 

[guedes the brawler]

Really interested in the use of DED with wavebounce. Can you explain how to perform it?

the wavebounce? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1elkJwtDo

you just need to remember that DED, as well as Dancing Blade, have a weird timing if you land before doing the fourth hit. you ought to do the first three hits in the air as fast as you can, and briefly wait to do the last input after landing (continuing at a high speed that would normally work, for some reason, won't work)

i recommend using the down finisher if they approach from the ground (best ground range, and they could shield and lose much of it) and up if they go to the air (best anti air swing)

a tip to get the hang of it for matches: try to play some matches with weak cpu (preferably in a stage with walk-offs,) and only use wavebounce side-bs and neutral-bs

 

[Perris6]

the wavebounce? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1elkJwtDo

you just need to remember that DED, as well as Dancing Blade, have a weird timing if you land before doing the fourth hit. you ought to do the first three hits in the air as fast as you can, and briefly wait to do the last input after landing (continuing at a high speed that would normally work, for some reason, won't work)

i recommend using the down finisher if they approach from the ground (best ground range, and they could shield and lose much of it) and up if they go to the air (best anti air swing)

a tip to get the hang of it for matches: try to play some matches with weak cpu (preferably in a stage with walk-offs,) and only use wavebounce side-bs and neutral-bs

Thanks! Practicing now

 

[Chiramijumaru]

Try DED after Dthrow > sourspot Utilt > Dtilt against stupes who can't DI or have slow airs ( , , , , etc. Only at super low %s) or pretty much any Dthrow followup (Jab, Utilt, Dtilt) against quicker fighters. Just be sure to not overdo it, practice this in Training.

 

[Jmacz]

I like countering Luigi's fireballs when I know he's gunna run in for a grab after, I suck with DED so I haven't found many practical uses for it yet.

 

[FUEGO!]

against "throwing stuffs" characters that like to throw something out before approaching you and grabbing you, you can use your jab to block the projectile, and by the time they're close enough to grab you, you can throw out a DED at them

So say, a Villager throwing out a rocket and walking behind it, following up if it hits me, or grabbing me if i sheild it, OR neutral air/forward airing me if I jump over it. If you're telling me all I have to do is Jab, I have my friend's entire approach to me beaten.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

So say, a Villager throwing out a rocket and walking behind it, following up if it hits me, or grabbing me if i sheild it, OR neutral air/forward airing me if I jump over it. If you're telling me all I have to do is Jab, I have my friend's entire approach to me beaten.

You can jab the rocket without taking damage if spaced right. It's easier to space ftilt, but both are possible, just needs the sweetspot to connect. I haven't tested it, but I think the endlag of jab is short enough for you to spotdodge and then punish the whiffed grab or jab again to grab interrupt.