What are Marth's worst match ups?

[Marthmario]

Just curious.

 

[Nemiak temp]

Wario sucks for Marf. Shiek isn't fun.

 

[DMG]

Characters that can force Marth to "react" in situations tend to do good, usually characters that can punish him solidly OOS for sloppy spacing and people who are mobile enough to dash in/dash out effectively.

Atm, his toughest MU's may be Sheik and Zard. Most of his MU's are pretty debatable and it's hard to evaluate exactly how well he does against some of the newer characters.

 

[210stuna]

"A good Pikachu will destroy Marth"

-Ken

On top of new Brawl tactics like QAC or whatever it's called. He is a force to be reckoned with when you're the sword wielding hero.

 

[DMG]

I'm pretty sure Axe and others thought it was evenish back in Melee, and that while he loved the MU he couldn't say for sure that Pika straight up won. QAC does not really change things in that MU

 

[Strong Badam]

Wario sucks for Marf.

??? it's definitely in marth's favor.

 

[DMG]

Exactly. I dunno what he's thinking

 

[210stuna]

I'm pretty sure Axe and others thought it was evenish back in Melee, and that while he loved the MU he couldn't say for sure that Pika straight up won. QAC does not really change things in that MU

This was at a newer tournament though. Yes it was still Melee, and yes Ken still has/had the old Melee metagame in his mind, but now I was referring to the P:M days where stuff like QAC comes into effect on top of his newer buffs.

 

[Nemiak temp]

??? it's definitely in marth's favor.

You are probably right. I know nothing about the matchup and recently got cheesed to death by a Wario as Marth. However even with all the advantages Marth has it seems like all a Wario has to do is land a side B any where near the edge and they win that stock. It just seems like Marth has to work harder, If you have insight about the matchup I would appreciate it.

 

[Strong Badam]

you can say that about a lot of moves in a lot of matchups. marth wins the neutral game very hard, it's really difficult to get in with wario. wario doesn't combo much harder than marth in the MU either.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah you got outplayed. marth might be wario's worst MU.

 

[5-oNe]

agreed...the shiek matchup isnt too bad for me now especially once u learn how to edge guard her.just learning the difference from rolling off the edge,getting straight up, or edge hopping will make all the difference.

 

[Zujx]

I have never a whole ton of fun with link

 

["Shion"]

How does one deal with an extremely aggro, laser approaching, shine canceling wolf?

My first guess is to counter the lasers as he approaches so he'll get hit, then follow with combo, but what do I know? Lol. Whattaya guys think?

 

[5-oNe]

How does one deal with an extremely aggro, laser approaching, shine canceling wolf?

My first guess is to counter the lasers as he approaches so he'll get hit, then follow with combo, but what do I know? Lol. Whattaya guys think?

dont.lol.and also i am going to guess u are either talking about rat or scythe. i do alot of running around/dash dancing/wave dashing everywhere until i get a chance to grab them.once u have that grab u have to uthrow them.do the uthrow chain grab and then convert with utilts and uairs until you feel like you are able to get the kill or the gimp.
i wouldnt suggest doing the counter.if you do decide to i would save it so they dont expect it. because when they usually shoot lasers, its a fake out. if you watch they will shoot the laser and do the waveland back just to see what you will do. and they usually do it more than once.lol

 

["Shion"]

dont.lol.and also i am going to guess u are either talking about rat or scythe. i do alot of running around/dash dancing/wave dashing everywhere until i get a chance to grab them.once u have that grab u have to uthrow them.do the uthrow chain grab and then convert with utilts and uairs until you feel like you are able to get the kill or the gimp.
i wouldnt suggest doing the counter.if you do decide to i would save it so they dont expect it. because when they usually shoot lasers, its a fake out. if you watch they will shoot the laser and do the waveland back just to see what you will do. and they usually do it more than once.lol

That's good advice.

I have something to try out for next time. Thanks brochacho!

Speaking of, I'd like some more matches vs you too, haha.

 

[5-oNe]

just come find me on wednesday...im always down

 

[Bukowski On Ice]

Toon Link can be difficult until you get him offstage. Lucas and Ness are much harder now to beat. Shield grabbing is the best response I've found for people who can pressure Marth on shield safely. Characters like Zelda who doesn't have to approach (or can approach super safely) are very tough MUs. Pikachu is kinda easy imo.

 

[rhfs]

I have never a whole ton of fun with link

Agreed. All the projectiles seem to make spacing difficult for me.

 

["Shion"]

I've found playing Link's isn't too bad on stages with platforms.

That with well placed tilts and good juggling.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

Roy has extremely easy kill setups/edgeguards on Marth while Marth kind of struggles at killing anything between certain percentages.

 

[5-oNe]

Roy has extremely easy kill setups/edgeguards on Marth while Marth kind of struggles at killing anything between certain percentages.

roy is not that good at killing marth and marth definitely has the advantage in this matchup. he can uthrow roy and juggle him just as good, if not better than spacies. and it only takes one hit off stage to kill roy when edge guarding (bair on edge especially). p.s...your counter when edgeguarding roy is his worst nightmare...you dont have to be that close to the edge for it to work.your counter hits him if his upb hits you which is a crazy far distance away.

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

Marth really has few bad matchups if any at all in pm. He has great speed, agility, quick attacks, and a good grab game to stop crouch cancelers and sheilders who can tank hits, along with a stellar punish and edgegaurd game. Hes so versatile and simple and all of his techniques carry over to all match ups.

He no longer has to worry about other melee top tiers either, as fox can no longer force an approach out of marth due to weak sauce lasers and sheik loses gauranteed follow ups from d throw. His strength has only been increased with slight buffs to dair and f special along with a whole new selection of maps that favor him, such as pokemon stadium 2, smashville, and the sonic stage.

The only matchups I consider a disadvantage for marth any more are puff who marth can never really seem to pin down and has trouble landing kill moves on her, and ice climbers who marth has no effective means to split up, along with their insusceptibility to getting grabbed as nana can always cover for popo, and strong crouch cancel with dsmash. Not too sure how much better they are in pm and if the loss of wobbling helps marth significantly.

As for newcomers link pikachu and doc were pretty formidable in melee considering their statuses as low-mid tier characters. Link might be trouble, not too sure on him yet, pikachu I feel goes pretty even with marth in this game and absolutely does not beat marth in melee. Dont listen to scrubby marth mains in ken and pewpewu when it comes to how pikachu does against marth, axe is better than pewpewu and knows the matchup better since hes the mid tier main, ken has never played a good pikachu in his life so he has no experiences to go off of, and was probably wasted despite that tiny baby beer mug because of his pitiful asian liver.

Mario/doc however in pm is very formidable and can stop marths momentum with fireballs, crouch cancel his many aerials and ground moves and can slay marth with his great punish on semi floaties and fantastic kill moves. However good mario players are scarce because it is apparently very hard for players to look beyond the surface of mario and push him to his limits, so if youre worried about fighting mario then my advice is to not be.

TL;DR Good or bad matchups rarely exist especially for high tiers in melee due to their versatility. In pm, every character goes even or near even with any other well balanced and designed character in this game, and if you have trouble with one character it is because you need to learn the matchup or its just a certain playstyle that you as a player find difficult to handle. I dont beleive in counter picking unless youre more comfortable with a certain character than others, otherwise there is no real advantage unless you cp marth on fd against spacies or fox on low ceiling stages. For marth at least (or any other character in pm aside from the more gimmicky ones) he has no disadvantageous matchups and will benefit from learning how to play against other characters much more than adapting specific cp choices to use. I know that strong bad among others will scream bad matchup johns whenever they lose to certain characters but as far as I can tell unless they have a very niche play style then every character in pm is well designed enough to have options to respond to any situation period.

 

[The_Enlightenment_]

Roy has extremely easy kill setups/edgeguards on Marth while Marth kind of struggles at killing anything between certain percentages.

Marth out speeds and can out space roy with every one of his attacks as he has less frames on his attacks and a longer grab with a faster+longer wavedash and a longer dash dance as well. He can still combo off of fair and can combo off of throws and uair. He can dthrow techchase into a dash attack or an fsmash and has the benefit of having all of his strong hitboxes at a farther range than marth. Roys recovery is still weaker than marthas as well and he should be able to knock him away with a combination of ftilt dtilt fsmash counter dsmash ledgegrab>dair sheild breaker etc.

 

[Xinc]

I feel anyone who can stop Marth's actions with projectiles safely will give Marth a giant headache. Ivysaur's long range, Link's arrows, boomerang, bombs, Tink's, and Zelda's projectiles seem like good examples. Lucas can provide ample shield pressure, but I feel it's the matter of who hits who first that matters in that case. Similar to Ness, but I think Marth has it easier on Ness than Lucas, namely less shield pressure. Characters with less range are great against Marth, imo.

 

[5-oNe]

I feel anyone who can stop Marth's actions with projectiles safely will give Marth a giant headache. Ivysaur's long range, Link's arrows, boomerang, bombs, Tink's, and Zelda's projectiles seem like good examples. Lucas can provide ample shield pressure, but I feel it's the matter of who hits who first that matters in that case. Similar to Ness, but I think Marth has it easier on Ness than Lucas, namely less shield pressure. Characters with less range are great against Marth, imo.

zelda's projectile should not really bother you as marth.as marth you have so much mobility and her projectiles sit in one spot (since there is no hitbox on them while she controls their movement).which does leave her open.and marth can easily move around them or slice them to make them go away.and ivysaur isnt very bad either.it may be a little bit of a problem getting to him.but his leaves arent hard to avoid and his fair is alot shorter than his bair. and once u are in on ivysaur marth can combo the s*** out of him because of his weight and floatiness

 

[5-oNe]

and imo tink is alot easier than link.tink has faster run speed but his projectiles are slower than links (boomerang/arrow).the thing that makes link a tough matchup is not just his projectiles, in the simplest terms its him.lol.he is extremely hard to kill especially when his percent is high and he is heavy.his master sword can out range marth.and his recovery is very hard to edge guard. and when it comes to tink everything is the opposite.so while you can say their projectiles are equal, and tink maybe faster, link is like the epitome of what marth hates.which is multiple projectiles, range, AND HE JUST WONT DIE! lol

 

[NonSequtur]

I've been having a lot of trouble with MewTwo. That could just be me being bad though.

 

[DMG]

Mewtwo buffs are real! The man is to be feared sorta

 

[JDIZ]

What about Metaknight? I got wrecked by one but that was probably because I was severely out played and did terrible myself as well.

 

[DMG]

I personally think Marth wins (same with the MK's I play against), but I seem to be in the minority on that opinion. I'll see about getting vids recorded and/or write up stuff about the MU.

 

[5-oNe]

i also believe marth does well against metaknight. he fast falls like roy so u cant chain grab but u can juggle the crap out of him.

 

[FlashingFire]

In my experience, Marth beats Ivysaur pretty solidly. When Ivy's at 0%, Fthrow > Fthrow > Fthrow > Fsmash does 30+ percent, more than likely sets up an edgeguard, and can tipper to boot. CC Dtilt is a pain to deal with sometimes, as is Fair, but overall Marth definitely has the tools to outmaneuver Ivy in neutral and capitalize on grabs and juggles.

 

[LordShade67]

That depends, we talking about 2.6 Ivy or 3.0's here?

 

[FlashingFire]

I dunno, maybe the most recent version that exploded in popularity?

 

[LordShade67]

Right....Good point XD
Just making sure since we all know what Ivysaur was like back in 2.6B.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Dthrow --> Tipped Fsmash is dangerous for Meta Knight between 60-80%. If he gets caught at the wrong edge he's basically toast.

 

[DMG]

Most Marth throws are Dangerous for MK, for 80% of the match. He's got semi bad tech rolls and a delicious weight/FF combination