What am I doing wrong?

[BoGardFurY1]

Hello There!,

I am running into a frustrating issue when playing smash. I love the game and want to improve. However i notice some people are able to do moves without start up lag or do smash attacks much faster than me, even when I play the same character. I've uploaded a video and time marked each thing so you could see exactly what i mean. I'm pretty bad obviously, but any help on what I don't understand would be greatly appreciated!

Down tilt after landing
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=17s

Air dodge so quickly and close to ground.
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=20s

Down Air into smash attack.
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=34s

How does this side B miss? It looks like it should hit before roll frames, right?
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=1m14s

I'm mashing grab as soon as i was down tilt'ed. They were able to get a smash off before my grab.
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=1m47s
I feel like in this situation in reverse i'm grabbed and i can't do the opposite. So feels like no matter what i try i'm not able to do the same stuff other people do verse me playing the same character.

Other issues i'm having:

• Anything out of shield seems slower for me than opponents.
• Neutral B not being responsive, sometimes having to hit it several times for it to fire.
• Being unable to punish rolls, people able to spot dodge, etc.

I do play a few characters but this seems like a consent thing i'm running into where some people can do moves or shield or air dodge faster than i'm able to when controlling the same character. The person i'm playing is clearly way better than me, but it's extra soul crushing when I feel like I'm hitting stuff at the same speed and getting a different result. It feels like i'm doing something wrong, or not aware of some fundamental thing everyone else seems to know.

Some clarification too:
I understand some moves have less frames than others and spent time looking over this. http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Zero Suit Samus I'm playing on a low ms computer monitor with game mode on, but i am using an HDMI cable to connect. Not sure if that matters.

Thank you for any feedback, links to topics or articles or anything to make this seem less frustrating and help shed some light/understanding for me! Thanks again!

 

[Unclesatan]

Hello There!,

Down tilt after landing
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=17s
Kirby autocancels his fair into dtilt. I do this very often with Kirby


Air dodge so quickly and close to ground.
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=20s
He just jumped and immediately air dodged before leaving the ground. This is just quick inputs

Down Air into smash attack.
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=34s
Kirby autocancels dair into smash attacks, I do this very often. When Kirby dairs you, DI towards him and shield.

How does this side B miss? It looks like it should hit before roll frames, right?
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=1m14s
Side-B has really awful hitboxes. This is the weirdest thing in the video, but can definitely be
attributed to just very ****ty hitboxes.


I'm mashing grab as soon as i was down tilt'ed. They were able to get a smash off before my grab.
https://youtu.be/lW0RNshtYcw?t=1m47s
Never try to grab someone at point blank range with Zero Suit.. her startup lag on her grab is huge.
Also, Kirby's dtilt is really strong, dtilt into smash attacks is extremely common, but not guaranteed.

This is all I got for you man. This Kirby was good, and he has lots of autocancel aerials.

also, I suggest trying to find ESAM's post on move states and how moves clash.

 

[Blazerator]

Down tilt after landing

Auto-canceled aerial.

Air dodge so quickly and close to ground.

Just press jump and shield nearly at the same time.

Down Air into smash attack.

I definitely saw the end lag on that Dair, and your character standing still for a few frames. You just gotta be quicker.

How does this side B miss? It looks like it should hit before roll frames, right?

Replay that part at .25 speed. He barely does it in time

I'm mashing grab as soon as i was down tilt'ed. They were able to get a smash off before my grab.

You put up your shield while Kirby charged his smash attack, then attempted a grab out of shield which was too late. Again, replay it at .25 speed.

 

[wizrad]

You've got timing issues. Learn the autocancel timings for your aerials, SHFF timing, and how to buffer inputs correctly. Good luck.

 

[BoGardFurY1]

Thank you so much for all the help! Some times times you just need someone else to tell you why you're bad. lol

Unclesatan & Blazeratorhttp://smashboards.com/members/unclesatan.278542/
Thank you for breaking each of these down. I really appreciate it. I couldn't find ESAM's post on move states and how moves clash. But i will definitely look into it more. I will look at things at .25 speed as well next time!

Thanks wizrad for suggestions. I'm looking into them now! Is SHFF the same as SHFFL?

I'm leaving some links here as well if someone is having the same frustrations.

Lag Canceling:
https://youtu.be/XXfJrUCnooA

Perfect Pivoting
https://youtu.be/6vaR4RM-qr0

Foxtrotting
https://youtu.be/azRrqKUJ-5o

 

[NotAnAdmin]

This is just a run in with a Kirby that somehow plays pretty precise online, or at least he's getting lucky with a couple of these scenarios.

Like explained before Kirby is swooping down on you with an auto-canceled dair. The link below explains what auto-cancelling is a little more and a couple examples.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Auto-canceling

I'm getting the feeling that you probably don't play online too often or that you possibly have started going online just recently, the video below explains some of the reasons why playing online and in person can change the way you play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7UoHLwD8oI

Keep in mind that there are people who play online very often, and just know what works online, what doesn't, and how to do it. There is no way for someone who hasn't put in the same hours to know the same things that the other does, even it looks simple. It's just the hard truth, but everyone gets better with time so there is no reason to stop playing especially if the love for the game is there.

 

[Pommgreen]

BoGardFurY1 I know about exactly everything you are talking about. You're not doing anything wrong. Don't listen to anything anyone else is telling you on here but me unless anyone esle is saying anything along the lines of what I am telling you. You want to why all that stuff that you just mentioned here:
Other issues I'm having:

• Anything out of shield seems slower for me than opponents.
• Neutral B not being responsive, sometimes having to hit it several times for it to fire.
• Being unable to punish rolls, people able to spot dodge, etc.

I do play a few characters but this seems like a consent thing I'm running into where some people can do moves or shield or air dodge faster than I'm able to when controlling the same character. The person I'm playing is clearly way better than me, but it's extra soul crushing when I feel like I'm hitting stuff at the same speed and getting a different result. It feels like i'm doing something wrong, or not aware of some fundamental thing everyone else seems to know.

is happening to you? It's simple. Nearly everybody online is cheating. I don't exactly how they do this but players can manipulate the connection in many different ways to change the speed of attacks and actions of both players so not just themselves, but even you. They speed up their attacks to make it very difficult for you to even safely approach them when you know from intuition and experience it wouldn't otherwise would never be the case. They can quickly act out of shield when they get attacked. They make literally impossible for you to edge guard them or punish their spot dodges and rolls because of how quickly they make them come out. They make gimping nearly impossible as they slow down your air speed and attacks making maneuverability in the air and fast falling extremely unsafe. They somehow make attacks that you know should have connected by the way you timed and aimed it whiff or even get out prioritized by their own attacks when you know that from what you saw it should not have been the case. They can even make you do an attack you did not intend to do such as going for tilt when you ended up doing a smash or an upair when you intended to upsmash.

They trap you in combos that don't truly exist in lagless or offline play by making your directional influence inputs to escape them barely register or not at all. They further accomplish this but making your inputs not register or feel heavy when you move around, jump. or attack. They make your air dodges , sport dodges, and rolls come out too slowly making easier to punish you. They make your inputs barely register when you are attempting to escape grabs and makes your grabs in comparison easy to escape or impossible to connect. They halt your movement whenever you both know that you could have closed in for a major punish, gimp, or kill whenever they come down from the air back on to the stage or ledge. They bait you with charged smash attacks and specials by tricking you into believing that you could punish them by the way they positioned themselves close enough to you whether it be on ground or on platform and how long they held the charge. You wait for your moment to strike at a time where you are sure you will get the hit but of course that somehow didn't happen and you got hit instead.

They can make attacks connect that otherwise should have whiffed from how badly they spaced them. They can make attacks sweetspot frequently in the same manner that otherwise should have been sourspotted. They make themselves nearly impossible for you to clear them offstage as they always seem to survive to unrealistically absurdly high percents. It takes launching them many times in short time frame with well timed and well spaced attacks or grabs in order to finally get them out. They make far easier for themselves to survive by slightly slowing down the game so that they give themselves enough time to find the best trajectory to prevent themselves from touching blast zone. Of course the same principles don't apply to you. You are far easier to clear when launched and it only takes one well timed attack that in itself was ingenuine and at a percent nowhere near as high as theirs. They make it easier for you to hit the blast zone by making your inputs not register well or at all as you trying to control the trajectory of the attack.

The crazy thing is despite all the rampant cheating I still win online a lot and I don't cheat. So you don't have to cheat as well in order to win but it does seem that everyone else does but it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Although from what I have noticed a lot of players seem to take some kind of twisted joy in screwing over someone else. People just want to win and doesn't matter how they do it they just want to know that they did.

 

[WritersBlah]

stuff

No. No, no, no, NO. Everything you just said is almost impossible for any normal person to do, much less during any kind of online match. Plus, not only does this stuff you said seem unfeasible, but it also takes the focus away from where it should be. You should never, ever blame your losses in Smash Bros., heck, any moderated competitive game on the other person cheating. The truth of the matter is simply that he was outplayed. Plain and simple. Yes, the match was online and lag can sometimes create unfortunate situations for either player, but the simple fact of knowledge as to why you lost can carry you a long way. And by taking the focus off of him, you're basically saying that he doesn't need to improve himself and can blame his losses on extraneous forces. That's what the Smash community has dubbed "johns." And there's a reason why we say "no johns" when dealing with stuff like this.

 

[Blazerator]

P Pommgreen

Input lag is a thing. Everyone has got it at some point. Try walking forward one step or tapping shield and see if there is any delay. If you enter a new room and you are still getting input lag, it is most likely coming from your side.

Personally, my online experience is always smooth as long as no one in my house is watching Netflix or anything like that.