WFT Stage Discussion Thread: Finding a Yoga Space

[Niala]

Hey WFT Boards.

I noticed we don't have anything like this dedicated to stage picks, counterpicks for specific characters, and stages to strike for WFT. Please feel free to discuss any information regarding it here and I'll update the OP with prominent posts as they come in.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Can't we port Tomodachi Life over to the Wii U? That stage was great for WFT.

 

[madworlder]

I'm hating Kongo Jungle 64, Windy Hill Zone, and Lylat Cruise. The angled platforms don't seem to do me any favors, although I know that in a best-case scenario it could be easier to ground with jab and abuse high-angled moves like f-air. She can crouch in the center of KJ64 for gimmicks, but the high ceiling and barrel below can make it difficult to pick up kills. Norfair and Woolly World don't see much love, but those stages are great for her air mobility (Woolly World's angled platforms always seem to favor WFT, too). I don't think WFT struggles on FD/Omega, her projectiles really shine there, but I prefer platformed stages to get the most use of her air mobility and air normals. It's unlikely that any permanent walk-off will become legal, but her offstage game is pretty integral, so walk-off corners should be avoided if possible.

 

[⑨ball]

I don't like Kongo Jungle much either, but I think it's a solid CP against characters that rely on vertical kills as WFT does almost as well killing from the sides. Bthrow also turns into a kill move at higher percents(not to mention rage and DB).

I don't think Windy Hill is going to stay legal either due to how easy it might be for a character like Fox or Sheik to camp a character like Ganon.

WFT definitely likes omegas. If you can choose a stage with walls because having wall jump as an option can help recovery if ever she needs it.

Platforms are always a plus since her platform canceling is kind of insane. Not to mention on stages like Smashville platforms pretty much mean free charges. They're also all stages she has no problem going under for recovery mixups.

 

[SuaveChaser]

Any good stages in general that favor WFT?

 

[⑨ball]

Depends on how you play really. WFT is so flexible that she doesn't really do bad on any stage, but she'll always do better if you match a playstyle to a stage that compliments it.

Aggressive types benefit a lot from low ceilings like Halberd.

Zoning heavy styles should see a lot of use out of Smashville.

Movement heavy players will shine on Battlefield and Omegas.

 

[Niala]

So I found something quite useful as a CP for WFT. I know not everybody allows this stage because the second transformation is a walkoff, but Castle Seige has a useful throw combo for her. Normally, when you FThrow at low percents against characters you can't followup with Fair because they fall to the ground too quickly, but using the slopes on the first (center stage) and second (the drape things on either side of the stage) you can actually get a Fair followup on most characters between 0-30%. Against the heavies, too, it's incredibly useful, as it can be used to kill if you get them in the 60-70% range-- they're just so big that the target is easy to hit. I haven't checked this on other stages, but I suspect it's also possible on some Delfino/Skyloft/Wuhu transformations as well, and potentially Lylat Cruise during it's tilt. I checked on the third transformation and it's only possible right around 25% on big characters, so it doesn't seem as useful.

Note that it's easier to accomplish in the 20%-30% range, because most characters aren't put into tumble from her FThrow until then. At 0% it's not a true combo, but it is at 20%.

It's also good to know that at 0% they are forced to land on the platform in the first transformation in a fallen state. Unless they jump out they will get hit by the fair every time (Airdodging will have too much landing lag and they won't be able to shield the Fair in time.)

This seems particularly useful as it takes advantage of how weird the hitbox on her Fair is. Very few characters can react with an aerial in the area she's approaching quick enough to stuff her Fair, and even then she'd probably win the priority fight over sex kicks like Link and Puff. Feel free to give it a try and maybe improve the concept (or help me realize why it's wrong.) Of course, this was all tested in Training mode, so if people wanted to maybe test DI on the FThrow or maybe try different %'s on different characters that'd be great.

EDIT: -Works on the outer edge of Lylat while it tilts only.
-Works on the outside of the plane on Wuhu really well.
-KJ64 works okay, slope is a bit short for it to be effective.
-Some Delfino platforms work. Stairs on Delfino work.

Seems to work better on specific characters (i.e. doesn't hit Diddy well but hits Mario 100% of the time.) Likely weight based.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's quite a lab job. Great work! Let's keep on finding stuff like that!

 

[Niala]

UPDATE ON THE STAGE STUFF!

So I was messing around today and managed to (finally) find a use for WFT's D-Throw. It's very specifically on Halberd, but you can use the low platform to your advantage. It seems that the hitstun from her D-Throw is JUST ENOUGH that they'll be forced to land on the platform above you if you D-Throw from below it. Of course, since the bottom platform's height changes depending on which section of the stage you're on. Fortunately, I've found out where it works best for either version (note these tests were done on Ganon, so the weight will likely vary.)

When on the non-hazardous transition (i.e. flying through the sky,) I found between 15-20% if you dthrow you can get a follow-up.
When on the Halberd itself, it works right at 0%.

The followup IS NOT guaranteed. Since you're lading in hitstun, the other player can tech the fall onto the platform (I think,) and I'm sure it's at least slightly based on DI. This seems to be a really powerful tool, though, especially if the follow-ups I was able to manage in practice are applicable. D-Throw>FULLHOP Nair>falling Nair (only first hit)>reverse ftilt>header was something I managed to pull out for a cool 56% straight from zero. Otherwise, there's the simple D-Throw>Header, which does 30% by itself. I'll upload some videos (if my computer lets me) tonight so you can see it.

I also have a feeling this might be applicable on other platform stages (especially Battlefield) in a specific % range. Might test that sometime soon.

Keep it Fit~

 

[Kikaioh]

I just thought to chime in, I think one of the worst stages for WFT on Wii U is actually the Wii Fit stage, because it's hard to see her Deep Breathing circles against the light background.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Yeah I agree. Light background stages don't really play into WFT's favor due to inability to not see Deep Breathing

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Stages I do very well with Wii Fit:
-Lylat Cruise
-Smashville
-Castle Siege

Not sure why but I do my best when playing at these stages.

 

[SpScarecrow]

For those that play on 3ds Omegas and Yoshi's island work well. Arena Ferox can be iffy with the transformations. Battlefield is great for using nair through the stage.

 

[CHOVI]

I think we could benefit against characters with bad recovery in Lylat.

 

[Fadacious]

I think we could benefit against characters with bad recovery in Lylat.

Not anymore!

 

[Cress!]

Not anymore!

It still tilts, so some characters still have problems there.

 

[Niala]

Regarding Lylat, I find the stage to be a somewhat poor counterpick for WiiFit. A huge portion of her strengths lie off-stage, and the lack of a powerful stage-spike option (the small width of the stage gives players much more time to react to a potential stage-spike) can really be a detriment. There's also the notable disadvantage to her projectile game, where a lot of situations leave Sun Salutation almost completely useless if the stage tilts in the wrong way. The only real advantage is that the height of the platforms is great for her; they're just above her standing height but also low enough to punish hard with Nair, header, and ESPECIALLY USmash. Regardless of that, I would put it at one of her worst stages.

 

[Cress!]

So I'm going to a tournament later today, and a friend told me that all stages were allowed. I don't know if he was joking, but in case he wasn't, what would WFT benefit from? Are walk-offs a good idea, or does it depend on the matchup? Anything else I should rake note of?

 

[AscWolf]

Next tournament i attend to has following stagelist:

Starter-Stages:
Coliseum (Ω)
Battlefield
Smashville

Counterpick-Stages:
Alle Stages (Ω Version)
Castle Siege
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Delfino Plaza
Town and City
Wuhu Island

I get 2 Stage Bans and I#m not sure which I should ban.

Currently going to ban Duck Hunt and Wuhu Island/ Castle Siege.
any thoughts?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Gross, 3 starters. I thought people had evolved past that already.

Siege is bad and you don't really get any benefit from any transformation.
DH is decent, so is WuHu, none should be the first ban option.
I'd ban FD against opponents with greater air mobility, they're are a pain to trap/punish on their landing.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Be warned don't pick Wii Fit Studio Omega. You'll have a tough time due to not seeing your DB

 

[Niala]

So I'm going to a tournament later today, and a friend told me that all stages were allowed. I don't know if he was joking, but in case he wasn't, what would WFT benefit from? Are walk-offs a good idea, or does it depend on the matchup? Anything else I should rake note of?

Walk-offs don't benefit her as much as a lot of other characters so I wouldn't willingly choose to go to one if the other character has good throws or follow ups out of throws. I truly think a huge portion of her gameplan is fighting people off-stage and taking advantage of her excellent off-stage options, so I'd try to keep to standard stages as much as possible.

Next tournament i attend to has following stagelist:

Starter-Stages:
Coliseum (Ω)
Battlefield
Smashville

Counterpick-Stages:
Alle Stages (Ω Version)
Castle Siege
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Delfino Plaza
Town and City
Wuhu Island

I get 2 Stage Bans and I#m not sure which I should ban.

Currently going to ban Duck Hunt and Wuhu Island/ Castle Siege.
any thoughts?

I don't like Delfino, personally. I find it's a cheesy stage with super random transformations that don't benefit her much. Plus, I find people are more likely to counterpick to delfino to try and cheese a win with the stupid blast zones changing and repeated water-spiking. It's one of my least favourite stages for her.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Do people seriously try to cheese water spikes on a character who has 3 spikes herself? Really? And furthermore, has good horizontal mobility not to be forced into a bad recovery spot?

 

[Niala]

Do people seriously try to cheese water spikes on a character who has 3 spikes herself? Really? And furthermore, has good horizontal mobility not to be forced into a bad recovery spot?

I find people in my area are more than willing to pick Delfino just so they can abuse the walkoffs, water, and particularly the low ceiling in transitions to get super early kills. It might be specific to my community, I'll admit, but I think the potential for that stage to be incredibly polarizing makes it a bad CP in the first place, and I wouldn't personally bet my stakes on many stages that can openly decide the win on their own.

 

[ぱみゅ]

This is the main "problem" of this stage, it is abusable, and dumb stuff can happen at very specific points, so most people opt for camp them out, which ultimately adds up to a campfest with tons of timeouts.


BUT, it *does* allow player interaction, actually characters are interacting a huge majority of the time (like at least 80%). It just have bad spots that change the game so drastically, so it feels broken.

 

[AscWolf]

imo is Delfino is the best CP for after Halberd.
Water for Spikes, Nair and Header under the stage etc.
Almost everybody bans this stage against me.

Well theres Skyloft too, but it'll never be allowed anywhere