Well, thanks PMDT for all of the hard work, mates!

[GP&B]

PK fire doesn't fail in a high level fight, what? I've watched Project M matches where a Ness could set up with simple spikes from the air looping from a grapple, into a PK fire chain. Bowser gets wrecked in high level? Is that why he's able to 4 stock people easily if they know what they're doing with the annoyance of Super Armor?

I've watched PM matches with Ness where people know how to SDI. PK Fire mainly works because it confirms on shields and grants Ness most of his pressure in the neutral. It fails when people escape and know how to respond. And Bowser 4-stocks when people try to approach Bowser. Don't approach Bowser and you win. Also Super Armor (and it's actually KB Armor) loses to grabs completely.

And I know Rest is also in Melee, and so are the set ups.. again, I 've played Melee competitively with my cousin for years, and Jigglypuff's rest wasn't a 1HKO in Melee.

Besides maybe the most minute details, Jiggs is point-for-point exactly the same including Rest.

 

[Engage]

Yeah, you did say it. You corrected yourself after I pointed out to you the issue in your post.

I know I said it, but I was remembering Smash animation tweaking is different than another game I used to animation tweak on, again, I even said "after a few post I said animation, as I remembered it was Smash animating".

 

[~Dad~]

Is there a smashboards trophy for worst thread ever?

 

[Engage]

I've watched PM matches with Ness where people know how to SDI. PK Fire mainly works because it confirms on shields and grants Ness most of his pressure in the neutral. It fails when people escape and know how to respond. And Bowser 4-stocks when people try to approach Bowser. Don't approach Bowser and you win. Also Super Armor (and it's actually KB Armor) loses to grabs completely.


Besides maybe the most minute details, Jiggs is point-for-point exactly the same including Rest.

Well then, the match I watched, the player must of been bad against Bowser, as he was using Game & Watch and kept approaching Bowser like it was a school principal meeting. And PK Fire is really good on shield contact, as you stated yes, and that's why it works a lot in competitive play, I don't remember if it works upon Perfect Shields though in project M? Can you confirm?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Wtf is the guy joking or trolling or something lmao
There's no way you can be this misinformed without trying
Kudos to those of you trying to set him straight but it's a fruitless endeavor

 

[Engage]

Is there a smashboards trophy for worst thread ever?

Maybe one for worst thread response ever. A broken Smash ball.

 

[Engage]

Wtf is the guy joking or trolling or something lmao
There's no way you can be this misinformed without trying
Kudos to those of you trying to set him straight but it's a fruitless endeavor

Misinformed? So, correcting peoples responses, using the same analogies as them, and also, most importantly, expressing my thoughts and opinions on a FAN MADE mod, is "misinformed?" I see how you think, DrinkingFood.

And if you mean, on the game itself, my thoughts, again, Project M is not perfect, far from it. Even Melee, as the first poster said, is more "polished" than Project M in its current state, it's a great mod, but it's got ways to go.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I can't give a clear saying on that, as 3.5 isn't out yet, but I would definitely remove or add in some things for certain characters, remove some Super Armor on characters, not all of it, just on certain attacks (Looking at you, Koopa Claw...), I would also buff people like R.O.B since his Side B floating across the screen thing just seems like a cool idea but not for a Side B. I would also revert Wario back to his Brawl form, and keep the shoulder bash into a grapple ability, because that's just sweet.

But as i said, I don't know what to change in 3.5 or what i would change, as it's not here yet so they might of already did these changes.

So, like others have said, Bowser has super armour because being slow is basically a condemnation is Smash Bros. Giving Bowser super armour is a neat way to keep him "viable", and it also fits in with his character being large and unwavering.

ROB's and Wario's side-bs were changed because they had janky functionality in Brawl.

From what is sounds like, you want more interesting moves in Project M, and that's understandable. I agree with ROB's side-b especially, and I think its present function should be consolidated with ROB's up-b to open up room for a new and more interesting side-b.

We'll see what changes in 3.5 and we can get to our "whining" when the time's right.

 

[Rᴏb]

Dad, i'm not saying that.

idk why but I found this funny

 

[Engage]

So, like others have said, Bowser has super armour because being slow is basically a condemnation is Smash Bros. Giving Bowser super armour is a neat way to keep him "viable", and it also fits in with his character being large and unwavering.

ROB's and Wario's side-bs were changed because they had janky functionality in Brawl.

From what is sounds like, you want more interesting moves in Project M, and that's understandable. I agree with ROB's side-b especially, and I think its present function should be consolidated with ROB's up-b to open up room for a new and more interesting side-b.

We'll see what changes in 3.5 and we can get to our "whining" when the time's right.

Thank you for an actual well thought out and less aggressive approach type of response as opposed to most of the people here, besides GP&B and the first poster.

But anyways, yeah, I understand that, but I don't think he should have Super Armor on all of his attacks, and the High Jump thing is REALLY unnecessary, as he's a heavy character as you said, him being able to High Jump should at least be given a cooldown, or a redone attack.

R.O.B's Side B and Wario's Side B was okay to me in Brawl, but I agree it was kind of Janky, Wario's Side B I have no problem with in Project M or Brawl, but in project M I just say it's a lot less useful since you're kind of laggy after it ends and you're open during that lag time. R.O.B's side B in Brawl was meh, in Project M it's not really that useful since his Up B is really great in itself. Maybe it can be replaced by a Dash , 1 straight rocket boosted dash that does damage? About 11 or 12% damage and a bit of lag if used on the ground to reduce spam of it? And in the air puts you in free fall like Fox or Falco's Side B maybe?

idk why but I found this funny

You made me laugh.

 

[Xermo]

Misinformed? So, correcting peoples responses-

Except you've yet to correct anybody. The rebuttals you're presenting are still all wrong and showcasing that you're misinformed, still.

 

[Engage]

Except you've yet to correct anybody. The rebuttals you're presenting are still all wrong and showcasing that you're misinformed, still.

Is that right? Someone earlier talked about "big and brute" characters, DK is a big brute, he lacks super armor, that should be a valid point right there that Bowser having all of that Super Armor but yet DK can take a punch and still be chugging and not having almost any is a bad argument. Not even his roll has it.

And correcting someone who said that I said, "Ivysaur is broken," when I never stated that in the post.

 

[Engage]

Except you've yet to correct anybody. The rebuttals you're presenting are still all wrong and showcasing that you're misinformed, still.

Also, based on what you all have been responding, "if you don't Wave dash, waveland, DI, SDI, Moonwalk, DACUS, SHFF, Ken, RDBA, and all of that, you're not "ready for high level play", realize people like HungryBox barely does all of those high level techs, and still destroys in tourny's.

I play the game like I see fit, I can still destroy someone with or without wave dashing, they can Wave(everything) and I can still give 'em a run for their Gamecube Controller. It's about reads, not the fancy tech's, but I suppose the elitist side of Smash who have shown themselves in this thread think you need all of that to win a match, I agree DI and SDI is mandatory though.

 

[GP&B]

Bowser doesn't have armor on all of his attacks and it's not even Super Armor to begin with. Also, jump out of Down B is one of the main things that makes him an actual threat in the air when playing on platform stages like BF. His aerial mobility, both horizontal and vertical, is abysmal otherwise.

Is that right? Someone earlier talked about "big and brute" characters, DK is a big brute, he lacks super armor, that should be a valid point right there that Bowser having all of that Super Armor but yet DK can take a punch and still be chugging and not having almost any is a bad argument. Not even his roll has it.

Did you completely skip over the part where DK has far greater mobility and significantly less laggy attacks or what? Bowser has one of the worst dash jumps, an abysmal air speed overall, the slowest jumpsquat, and bad grab startup.

Also, based on what you all have been responding, "if you don't Wave dash, waveland, DI, SDI, Moonwalk, DACUS, SHFF, Ken, RDBA, and all of that, you're not "ready for high level play", realize people like HungryBox barely does all of those high level techs, and still destroys in tourny's.

Jesus, dude. You really don't have the slightest idea.

 

[~Dad~]

Also, based on what you all have been responding, "if you don't Wave dash, waveland, DI, SDI, Moonwalk, DACUS, SHFF, Ken, RDBA, and all of that, you're not "ready for high level play", realize people like HungryBox barely does all of those high level techs, and still destroys in tourny's.

I play the game like I see fit, I can still destroy someone with or without wave dashing, they can Wave(everything) and I can still give 'em a run for their Gamecube Controller. It's about reads, not the fancy tech's, but I suppose the elitist side of Smash who have shown themselves in this thread think you need all of that to win a match, I agree DI is mandatory though.

Money match me, I'll show you how useful tech can be.

 

[Engage]

Bowser doesn't have armor on all of his attacks and it's not even Super Armor to begin with. Also, jump out of Down B is one of the main things that makes him an actual threat in the air when playing on platform stages like BF. His aerial mobility, both horizontal and vertical, is abysmal otherwise.


Did you completely skip over the part where DK has far greater mobility and significantly less laggy attacks or what? Bowser has one of the worst dash jumps, an abysmal air speed overall, the slowest jumpsquat, and bad grab startup.


Jesus, dude. You really don't have the slightest idea.

It's not called Super Armor, sure, but it's still there in the end. He has it on his strongest attacks I noticed, besides Side Smash.

DK has better mobility, but realize, Bowser users usually just approach with Forward Air into an R / L cancel when they land. Since forward air barely has lag to begin with. Seriously?

The slightest idea? I've faced people in PM in the few weeks I've had with it who do all of that that I named, and still came out victorious with Lucario, doing nothing but Dash Dancing as my only 'Tech' which is barely a technique to begin with.

Money match me, I'll show you how useful tech can be.

Ofcourse, I'll fight you when I get finished with my food, give me about 3 minutes.

 

[Xermo]

Also, based on what you all have been responding, "if you don't Wave dash, waveland, DI, SDI, Moonwalk, DACUS, SHFF, Ken, RDBA, and all of that, you're not "ready for high level play", realize people like HungryBox barely does all of those high level techs, and still destroys in tourny's.

I play the game like I see fit, I can still destroy someone with or without wave dashing, they can Wave(everything) and I can still give 'em a run for their Gamecube Controller. It's about reads, not the fancy tech's, but I suppose the elitist side of Smash who have shown themselves in this thread think you need all of that to win a match, I agree DI and SDI is mandatory though.

Oh boy, you sure corrected me...except nobody said you had to perform a wavedash to be good. We simply told you these techs have uses for characters that aren't slippery. You aren't reading at all, are you.

 

[Engage]

Oh boy, you sure corrected me...except nobody said you had to perform a wavedash to be good. We simply told you these techs have uses for characters that aren't slippery. You aren't reading at all, are you.

Engage, not trying to be mean but the more you post the more apparaent it is that you lack eperience and understanding of the game at a high level.

like you say you don't see the point at all in wave dashing and that it's just for being flashy, when infact it has many uses....one of them being to be able to smash attack while moving in and out
.....then there's spacing, baiting, wavelands etc etc.

Engage, not trying to be mean but the more you post the more apparaent it is that you lack eperience and understanding of the game at a high level.

except nobody said you had to perform a wavedash to be good.

You were saying?

 

[nimigoha]

Also, based on what you all have been responding, "if you don't Wave dash, waveland, DI, SDI, Moonwalk, DACUS, SHFF, Ken, RDBA, and all of that, you're not "ready for high level play", realize people like HungryBox barely does all of those high level techs, and still destroys in tourny's.

I play the game like a scrub

It's almost like different characters get different uses out of different things.

Jigglypuff is an almost entirely air-based character. Her wavedash is good but is outclassed by her aerial mobility. Wave landing is how you get back to the ground, something she doesn't want to do a whole lot. Moonwalking lol, DACUS isn't in Melee so irrelevant, SHFFL doesn't work with Jiggs and she can throw out more/faster aerials without it, Ken lol... Puff/HBox doesn't rely on high skill techniques to be good, but that doesn't mean other characters don't. Fox is good because of his wavedash, because of his SHFFL, because of his waveland.

You have no understanding of the concept of balance or technical utilities.

 

[kaizo13]

why is this thread still open?
Jiang plz

 

[Xermo]

You were saying?

where in that quote does it say "wavedash to be good."
Holy **** this is exhausting

 

[GP&B]

It's not called Super Armor, sure, but it's still there in the end. He has it on his strongest attacks I noticed, besides Side Smash.

It's not even the same thing. Knockback armor has thresholds that prevent Bowser from bulldozing through everything. Also, if you had a clue you would notice that his strongest attacks are also insanely punishable. Stop throwing out attacks and just grab him.

DK has better mobility, but realize, Bowser users usually just approach with Forward Air into an R / L cancel when they land. Since forward air barely has lag to begin with. Seriously?

Landing Lag
• Normal: 30 frames
• L-Canceled: 15 frames
• Auto-canceled: 6 frames

Do your research. Fair is very punishable. If you are losing to Fair constantly, you are probably terrible. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're certainly not good based on the lack of knowledge you've presented.

The slightest idea? I've faced people in PM in the few weeks I've had with it who do all of that that I named, and still came out victorious with Lucario, doing nothing but Dash Dancing as my only 'Tech' which is barely a technique to begin with.

You're misconstruing using tech with actually being good. Being tech heavy does not make you good, but being good does require being extremely on-point with execution which can often require a lot of tech.

And again, you keep using examples of characters that don't need much besides their own kit in the first place (but I'd argue that Lucario benefits tremendously from a number of tools like B-reversal as an example). Jiggs needs at most crouching wavedash and that's because literally all of her mobility is in the air.

 

[Engage]

It's almost like different characters get different uses out of different things.

Jigglypuff is an almost entirely air-based character. Her wavedash is good but is outclassed by her aerial mobility. Wave landing is how you get back to the ground, something she doesn't want to do a whole lot. Moonwalking lol, DACUS isn't in Melee so irrelevant, SHFFL doesn't work with Jiggs and she can throw out more/faster aerials without it, Ken lol... Puff/HBox doesn't rely on high skill techniques to be good, but that doesn't mean other characters don't. Fox is good because of his wavedash, because of his SHFFL, because of his waveland.

You have no understanding of the concept of balance or technical utilities.

Jigglypuff users I fight never Wavedash so I knew that, Wavelanding is again, something you can do, but not needed at all. Moonwalking was a joke, DACUS is still in Project M, relevant. SHFFL doesn't work with floaty characters in general, Kirby, Metaknight, King DDD, Jigs, makes sense anyways. Ken, again, was a joke, that's a player's combo I know. HungryBox is the point of not needing advanced techs to be 'high leveled'. Fox is good with or without all of that fancy stuff, if I still mained Fox I'd love to prove it, but my Melee days are numbered and done. Sorry lad, and I have perfect understanding of "technical utilities". Balance? Project M isn't balanced as it stands, neither is Brawl or Melee, they're all broken in their own way.

 

[Engage]

where in that quote does it say "wavedash to be good."
Holy **** this is exhausting

Does it not say "I'm going to say you lack experience" and then immediately after try to educate me on what "Wave Dashing" is? Wow.

 

[~Dad~]

TIL fox is good without l canceling, wavedashing, and wave landing.

 

[9bit]

Fox is good with or without all of that fancy stuff

 

[Engage]

It's not even the same thing. Knockback armor has thresholds that prevent Bowser from bulldozing through everything. Also, if you had a clue you would notice that his strongest attacks are also insanely punishable. Stop throwing out attacks and just grab him.



Do your research. Fair is very punishable. If you are losing to Fair constantly, you are probably terrible. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're certainly not good based on the lack of knowledge you've presented.


You're misconstruing using tech with actually being good. Being tech heavy does not make you good, but being good does require being extremely on-point with execution which can often require a lot of tech.

And again, you keep using examples of characters that don't need much besides their own kit in the first place (but I'd argue that Lucario benefits tremendously from a number of tools like B-reversal as an example). Jiggs needs at most crouching wavedash and that's because literally all of her mobility is in the air.

Fair is punishable you say? I'll tell you now, Bowser's Fair is incredibly low on lag compared to, say, his down air, down B or back air. What?

And Examples of Characters that don't need much besides their own abilities you say? I can say that about all characters, Luigi players can win without Wave landing and dashing, actually, he doesn't need it either. I can win a whole match without doing any of those. But we do it just because you slide REALLY far while doing it. But, I can also win a match without 1 Wave Dash on Luigi.

 

[Engage]

TIL fox is good without l canceling, wavedashing, and wave landing.

He is, actually. Brawl has no Wavedashing or Landing, or L cancelling garbage, yet, Fox is a monster in there still. In Melee, Fox's don't need Wavedashing nor Landing to win, as his Lazer is trash compared to Falco who needs it more due to Lazer hopping, and also, Fox's would rely more in DACUS than anything due to his incredible kill power on up smash. But, if we're talking Melee, it's all about short hop shines. As I said, I used to main Fox back in Melee, with no techs, and would kick butt.

 

[Vashimus]

Fair is punishable you say? I'll tell you now, Bowser's Fair is incredibly low on lag compared to, say, his down air, down B or back air. What?

WHAT THE FU-

**** this, I'm going to sleep.

 

[Engage]

WHAT THE FU-

**** this, I'm going to sleep.

Goodnight Vashimus, have a good rest. Don't let the Bowser Down air's bite.

 

[Engage]

TIL fox is good without l canceling, wavedashing, and wave landing.

Let's do that fight now, so I can show you how much "Techs matter".

 

[GP&B]

I'm done. There's either a hideous amount of ignorance that's being shamelessly hidden behind attempts to sound way more intelligent than you actually are or it's just blatant trolling.

 

[~Dad~]

He is, actually. Brawl has no Wavedashing or Landing, or L cancelling garbage, yet, Fox is a monster in there still. In Melee, Fox's don't need Wavedashing nor Landing to win, as his Lazer is trash compared to Falco who needs it more due to Lazer hopping, and also, Fox's would rely more in DACUS than anything due to his incredible kill power on up smash. But, if we're talking Melee, it's all about short hop shines. As I said, I used to main Fox back in Melee, with no techs, and would kick butt.

1: no
2: you play terrible people
3: lmao
4: good night


P.S.

lmao

 

[Xermo]

Yo, Engage for member of the year, please.

 

[Engage]

1: no
2: you play terrible people
3: lmao
4: good night


P.S.

lmao

Giveth me your friend code.

I'm done. There's either a hideous amount of ignorance that's being shamelessly hidden behind attempts to sound way more intelligent than you actually are or it's just blatant trolling.

Actually, I'm not a perfectionist elitist smash player like the mighty "GP&B" who thinks Statistics prove a characters use. The character is only as good as its user, I swear, you elitist make me sick.

 

[Engage]

Yo, Engage for member of the year, please.

Xermo, fight me in Project M, I want to see how good you are. Back up that talk on the Gamecube sticks. Even if I prefer Brawl.

 

[GP&B]

You don't even need the statistics to know that Bowser's Fair is punishable on whiff in the neutral. That you're even fighting hard numbers with ad hominem tells me you don't even know how to punish it.

 

[Engage]

You don't even need the statistics to know that Bowser's Fair is punishable on whiff in the neutral. That you're even fighting hard numbers with ad hominem tells me you don't even know how to punish it.

Realize you said "on Whiff". If it hits shield, you can react right after, you don't spam his aerial, you use it as his MAIN aerial, and again, I do know how to 'punish it'. It's not impossible, I never even said his Fair was impossible to beat, I said it's his best aerial as it's less lag on it than his other ones.

 

[kaizo13]

Xermo, fight me in Project M, I want to see how good you are. Back up that talk on the Gamecube sticks. Even if I prefer Brawl.

Engage i'll play you
i'm eager to witness all this non-technical goodness you speak of

0001-2991-3914

 

[Engage]

Engage i'll play you
i'm eager to witness all this non-technical goodness you speak of

0001-2991-3914

Fantastic.

1466-2893-4096