Weekly Get-Better-Scrub Thread

[SilentProtagonist]

Hi everyone! No one probably knows me so I'll give a quick introduction.

I got into the competitive Project M scene April 16, 2014 (a little over 3 months now). Before this I had watched Melee and Project M tournaments for 2 weeks straight, leading into watching the documentary, and being inspired to take the plunge with my favorite game and become a top player. I've played every Smash game, but never on a level such as this. I'm the stereotypical player who was unbeatable to his friends and completely oblivious to the competitive scene.

When I played Brawl for the few months after it came out I loved playing Ike. Even though he's slow and sluggish I love how intense he is and how he drops the bass when you hit that sweet spot with his sword. Fast forward to now, and I've chosen to main Ike in Project M (Marth in Melee). I never got to play Ike in his glory days when things like infinite wall jumping out of his quickdraws existed (and probably for the best).

I finally feel as though I've gotten to a point with Ike in Project M that I'm ready to take on constructive criticisms. There are things I'm well aware of that need worked on but having someone else view my matches and point things out can only serve to help me further compete at higher levels. I turn to you, my fellow Ike players, and hope you'll be able to help me become not only a great Ike, but a better player.

Since I manage the stream and upload the videos each week, I'll just update this thread with new posts and new videos in the future so as not to clutter this forum.

Thank you everyone!

 

[SilentProtagonist]

For the first week of videos here a couple I'd like some feedback on:

Rahma started off with his Roy, which I don't think he's played too much. But afterward goes back to his main, Mario, which I still struggle with.

I feel like I'm figuring out how to overcome Ganondorf better, but still make too many errors to pull out certain victories.

 

[Crezyte]

No offense meant to all the newer Ike players, but is it a common thing to just go for F-smash and/or eruption and hope it hits? Personally I would only go for an F-smash off a hard read in a tech chase scenario or after a perfectly popped up d-air. I hate the randy "I don't know what else to do" f-smashes.


edit - Seeing as Metroid dropped a knowledge bomb, I'll just go sit in a corner... or go back to sleep

 

[SilentProtagonist]

No offense meant to all the newer Ike players, but is it a common thing to just go for F-smash and/or eruption and hope it hits? Personally I would only go for an F-smash off a hard read in a tech chase scenario or after a perfectly popped up d-air. I hate the randy "I don't know what else to do" f-smashes. I'll get into further review when I get home from work, which'll likely be around 6-ish.

Two common problems I seem to have (and possibly due to nerves) are going too far on the stick when I'm intending to do a forward tilt, and erupting when I intended a QuickDraw. Weird problems to have since I don't find tilting particularly hard (I leave tap jump on and have no issue putting out Up Tilts with Ike) or using QuickDraw.

In some situations though when I read someone tech rolling toward me I'll stand still and put out an eruption to pop them back up into the air. There's probably a better option than this though, but against a player like Rahma who abuses spot dodging when he knows you've read him it's nice to have a lingering hitbox out there.

 

[metroid1117]

Two common problems I seem to have (and possibly due to nerves) are going too far on the stick when I'm intending to do a forward tilt, and erupting when I intended a QuickDraw. Weird problems to have since I don't find tilting particularly hard (I leave tap jump on and have no issue putting out Up Tilts with Ike) or using QuickDraw.

In some situations though when I read someone tech rolling toward me I'll stand still and put out an eruption to pop them back up into the air. There's probably a better option than this though, but against a player like Rahma who abuses spot dodging when he knows you've read him it's nice to have a lingering hitbox out there.

If you want a lingering hitbox, NAir is generally better because it's safer and has even more active frames than Eruption. However, if you can land a vertical kill from it, then Eruption may be worth it.

In general, you should consider using more QD options than QD -> JC USmash and QD attack; you can do a lot of things out of QD like QD -> JC grab, QD -> aerial, QD -> wavedash, QD -> RAR BAir, and more. For more ideas, I suggest that you watch this video; it's really old (from the days of Demo 2.0) but contains a lot of info that's still relevant to 3.0. I also agree with Crezyte in that you should probably use less Eruption and FSmash; although FSmash has enormous reward when you land it, Ike has better and safer options to punish opponents at low and mid %s.

There are other things, but I'd take things one step at a time and focus on polishing movement options out of QD; it makes him much more versatile in the neutral game and it opens up a lot of options in his punish game. Ike's throw game is great - try landing QD -> JC grabs and then play around with his throws; they can all be used to combo depending on the opponent's DI, so knowing when to use each throw and how to follow up on the opponent's DI takes some getting used to.

Lastly, I noticed that these videos are from KC's PM channel; Strong Bad has a great Ike, if you get the chance then I'd also ask him for some tips.

 

[RomanCenturionX]

You are pretty good for only playing for 3 months, your movement is really good and you seem to have some of the fundamentals down pat. In your tournament match you seem to really like going for hard reads with your liberal use of smash attacks and eruption. Which is fine when you land them but if you keep doing it your opponent starts preparing for that specific punish.

I'm not sure about your familiarity with the Mario matchup but you should know that Ike's n air will eat through Mario's fireball and continue on with the move. Also you shouldn't use QD -> U smash as a approach option it is more suited for tech chases and punishes it lags a bit too much to approach against people who know how to punish it. I saw a lack of QD -> JC grab whenever they went into shield it seemed like most of the time you would just to the attack or u smash on shield but you did perform the QD JC grab at other spots so it might just be a lack of understanding the utility of each QD technique or you could be unconfident or uncomfortable with doing the input for the move but it is certainly something you should look into adding into your game.

In the Money match it looked like you were fighting a computer whenever the Ganondorf was offstage in that you expected him to waste his initial jump prior to setting up his recovery. This is a problem that I struggled with when I first started playing Ike, basically walk off f air or b air is really effective at hitting people while they are jumping, tethering, or up b'ing if they are not doing either of those things you can put yourself in a very precarious position to be edge guarded. So I would work on understanding when it is ok to go offstage for and edge guard and when you want to stay on stage. Other than that there was a lot of stuff to like so if you keep at it you should have no problem correcting these mistakes.

Also there is an Ike Videos section of this forum you can post your videos to for critiques, just so you are aware.

 

[SilentProtagonist]

If you want a lingering hitbox, NAir is generally better because it's safer and has even more active frames than Eruption. However, if you can land a vertical kill from it, then Eruption may be worth it.

In general, you should consider using more QD options than QD -> JC USmash and QD attack; you can do a lot of things out of QD like QD -> JC grab, QD -> aerial, QD -> wavedash, QD -> RAR BAir, and more. For more ideas, I suggest that you watch this video; it's really old (from the days of Demo 2.0) but contains a lot of info that's still relevant to 3.0. I also agree with Crezyte in that you should probably use less Eruption and FSmash; although FSmash has enormous reward when you land it, Ike has better and safer options to punish opponents at low and mid %s.

There are other things, but I'd take things one step at a time and focus on polishing movement options out of QD; it makes him much more versatile in the neutral game and it opens up a lot of options in his punish game. Ike's throw game is great - try landing QD -> JC grabs and then play around with his throws; they can all be used to combo depending on the opponent's DI, so knowing when to use each throw and how to follow up on the opponent's DI takes some getting used to.

Lastly, I noticed that these videos are from KC's PM channel; Strong Bad has a great Ike, if you get the chance then I'd also ask him for some tips.

Thanks Metroid! Was definitely hoping you would reply since your Ike is one that really inspired me to get better with how I play the character. I should probably look a little harder at frame data on various hitboxes so I can know things like the nair being out longer than an eruption, but thank you for pointing that out to me.

What's aggravating about your second point is I know all the various things you can do out of Ike's quickdraw. I practice these a lot to make sure I don't make technical flubs like jumping over someone out of a QuickDraw when I meant to JC Grab them. In fact in some older videos on the YT channel you'll see me QD and do the regular attack and just shake my head because it was the 3rd or 4th time in a row I've done it and I know better to mix things up haha.

You're spot on with the critique about my options after throwing someone. I haven't quite nailed that one down yet and I suppose the fundamental flaw is I'm not doing enough reading of my opponent's DI. I'll have to work on this so I can better understand the things I should be following up with and improve my punish/combo game.

Hope I'll get to meet and play you some day! Was sad you weren't able to make it to 4Hype last month.

 

[SilentProtagonist]

You are pretty good for only playing for 3 months, your movement is really good and you seem to have some of the fundamentals down pat. In your tournament match you seem to really like going for hard reads with your liberal use of smash attacks and eruption. Which is fine when you land them but if you keep doing it your opponent starts preparing for that specific punish.

I'm not sure about your familiarity with the Mario matchup but you should know that Ike's n air will eat through Mario's fireball and continue on with the move. Also you shouldn't use QD -> U smash as a approach option it is more suited for tech chases and punishes it lags a bit too much to approach against people who know how to punish it. I saw a lack of QD -> JC grab whenever they went into shield it seemed like most of the time you would just to the attack or u smash on shield but you did perform the QD JC grab at other spots so it might just be a lack of understanding the utility of each QD technique or you could be unconfident or uncomfortable with doing the input for the move but it is certainly something you should look into adding into your game.

In the Money match it looked like you were fighting a computer whenever the Ganondorf was offstage in that you expected him to waste his initial jump prior to setting up his recovery. This is a problem that I struggled with when I first started playing Ike, basically walk off f air or b air is really effective at hitting people while they are jumping, tethering, or up b'ing if they are not doing either of those things you can put yourself in a very precarious position to be edge guarded. So I would work on understanding when it is ok to go offstage for and edge guard and when you want to stay on stage. Other than that there was a lot of stuff to like so if you keep at it you should have no problem correcting these mistakes.

Also there is an Ike Videos section of this forum you can post your videos to for critiques, just so you are aware.

I've been able to catch a lot of people off guard when I have invincibility and end their stock with the QDC Up Smash, but you're absolutely right. It's become a bad habit after doing it for so long that I can tell it isn't a good option in most cases.

I suppose one of my flaws for being so new is I'll recess into moves or things that are easily executable and don't require much thought so I can "put on the pressure." Over the last week or so I've been trying to train myself to be more patient and bait approaches but it'll take time to truly master.

My edge guard game is definitely a big weakness. Occasionally I'll get a really good one but they aren't anywhere up to snuff. I'll do some more video research and pay more attention to how my opponents behave in their recoveries when I get them off stage.

Thank you for the feedback! I'll start using the stickied video thread I somehow missed.