HudnofskiBlue
Smash Cadet
I've been searching for threads to answer this question, but I can't really find any that answer it directly and in depth. Anybody know useful edgeguarding info?
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Ways to edge-guard?
- Thread starter HudnofskiBlue
- Start date
The Legendary Big Boss
Smash Cadet
Hi HudnofskiBlue, I can explain how I usually edge guard with Pikachu. It varies based on the character I am up against for one. Some characters recover up high, down low, side ways, or anyway they feel like. In my personal experience the up high and down low recovery attempts are easier for my Pikachu to edge guard.
T-Jolt edge guards are easy and safe. Let them dive diagonally down on your foe or let the hug the stage. The hugging ones zap foes on the ledge or ones that have to recover vertically from below. However imo, both methods are lackluster at taking a stock, but it will get the job done sometimes and free damage is still nice.
Simple Aerials work well for Pikachu. Bair can stage spike or drag the foe down. (This one is hard to hit with for me atm but is consistent for other players with more practice in.) Fair can push foes outward. Nair can also push opponents out further. Dair can be deadly if used properly. Aerials are good for attacking each kind of recovery, but they seem to be our best bet against mid height recoveries.
Thunder can be brutal as an edge guard. I try to either spike with the cloud hitbox, hit with the invincible melee hit of Thunder, or both if the natural combo works. Thunder is at its prime punishing high recovery attempts.
I hear Quick Attack can also be used to edge guard by disrupting second jumps and flinching opponents when they do not expect it.
Personally, I like to punish ledge get up options and stage landings the most. It requires fast reflexes, a read, or a bait/set up. The key is to pick up on your opponents habits. Which option is their default go to? Which option would be the best one for them at that moment?
1. The opponent can get up normally. You can punish this with Up Smash or spaced F-Smash usually. A jab is both really funny and effective too. The jab usually forces the opponent back to the ledge while netting free damage.
2. The get up attack. Go for an easy shield grab.
3. The jump get up. Allows a hard Nair or Uair chain.
4. The roll get up. Allows pretty much any follow up.
5. Ledge drops into aerials. These are a mix up you need to watch out for. Usually you can punish with a shield grab though.
I hope this gives you some ideas to work with and good luck!
T-Jolt edge guards are easy and safe. Let them dive diagonally down on your foe or let the hug the stage. The hugging ones zap foes on the ledge or ones that have to recover vertically from below. However imo, both methods are lackluster at taking a stock, but it will get the job done sometimes and free damage is still nice.
Simple Aerials work well for Pikachu. Bair can stage spike or drag the foe down. (This one is hard to hit with for me atm but is consistent for other players with more practice in.) Fair can push foes outward. Nair can also push opponents out further. Dair can be deadly if used properly. Aerials are good for attacking each kind of recovery, but they seem to be our best bet against mid height recoveries.
Thunder can be brutal as an edge guard. I try to either spike with the cloud hitbox, hit with the invincible melee hit of Thunder, or both if the natural combo works. Thunder is at its prime punishing high recovery attempts.
I hear Quick Attack can also be used to edge guard by disrupting second jumps and flinching opponents when they do not expect it.
Personally, I like to punish ledge get up options and stage landings the most. It requires fast reflexes, a read, or a bait/set up. The key is to pick up on your opponents habits. Which option is their default go to? Which option would be the best one for them at that moment?
1. The opponent can get up normally. You can punish this with Up Smash or spaced F-Smash usually. A jab is both really funny and effective too. The jab usually forces the opponent back to the ledge while netting free damage.
2. The get up attack. Go for an easy shield grab.
3. The jump get up. Allows a hard Nair or Uair chain.
4. The roll get up. Allows pretty much any follow up.
5. Ledge drops into aerials. These are a mix up you need to watch out for. Usually you can punish with a shield grab though.
I hope this gives you some ideas to work with and good luck!
Gibbs
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2015
- Messages
- 186
The reason why there is no decisive edgegaurd guide with pika is because his kit is at one and the same time amazing and subpar for edgegaurding. There are very few characters that Pika can reliably end offstage. C Falcon is really the only match I know of with flowchart edgegaurd options for pika (bair and dair can both stuff his up-b).
In melee and in brawl edgegaurds were things that you "dropped" or scenarios where with the right option coverage, the opponent should never recover. Pika does not drop edge gaurds, but rather has a crazy deadly offstage mix up game. It can be disappointing to go super deep as pika over and over again against characters like Ness or Fox (theoretically bad recovery) and never get the easy kill confirm that characters like Falcon or Marth might have in the same situation.
I've had sort of a paradigm shift on how I view pika's offstage game. There is lots of talk among smashers about how pika is an edgegaurding centric character. I think this view is off, since people rarely miss the stage tech and thunder spiking is really low percent. This isn't necessarily a character flaw for Pika though. When Pika chases someone offstage, pika is in a massive massive state of advantage. W/ QA pika is comfortable recovering even from the bubble. We can put out t-jolt, thunder, nair, bair, dair, fair hitboxes out without worrying about reprisal at any percent.
So even though you may be aiming for the thunder cloud spike (which might just be one of the most satisfying things to land in the entire game) when you toss a character offstage and go for the edgegaurd you should expect them to get back, but not until after you've landed some absolutely free % on your opponent who just wants to get back to solid ground.
In melee and in brawl edgegaurds were things that you "dropped" or scenarios where with the right option coverage, the opponent should never recover. Pika does not drop edge gaurds, but rather has a crazy deadly offstage mix up game. It can be disappointing to go super deep as pika over and over again against characters like Ness or Fox (theoretically bad recovery) and never get the easy kill confirm that characters like Falcon or Marth might have in the same situation.
I've had sort of a paradigm shift on how I view pika's offstage game. There is lots of talk among smashers about how pika is an edgegaurding centric character. I think this view is off, since people rarely miss the stage tech and thunder spiking is really low percent. This isn't necessarily a character flaw for Pika though. When Pika chases someone offstage, pika is in a massive massive state of advantage. W/ QA pika is comfortable recovering even from the bubble. We can put out t-jolt, thunder, nair, bair, dair, fair hitboxes out without worrying about reprisal at any percent.
So even though you may be aiming for the thunder cloud spike (which might just be one of the most satisfying things to land in the entire game) when you toss a character offstage and go for the edgegaurd you should expect them to get back, but not until after you've landed some absolutely free % on your opponent who just wants to get back to solid ground.
HudnofskiBlue
Smash Cadet
So basically, off-stage , I shouldn't expect to kill, but instead get free damage, unless I can definitely kill the other player?
EhMon
Smash Rookie
It's incredibly matchup dependent, but you essentially throw yourself out there and go deep, since pika probably has the best recovery. Some characters recovering low can simply be tortured by tjolt until you force an unsafe up-b above the ledge, if not death. Some recover high so you can bait an air dodge and punish with thunder. Anyone who plays against pikachu more than twice will soon learn to avoid the thunder from up high, but b reversed thunder to cover the low vertical recovery can be a deadly mixup as well.
Running off stage and hitting with one or two hits of forward air before they recover upwards is usually enough to gimp most characters. Yet another conditioning option so you can bait an air dodge, punish with a DJ nair, for example.
Point is, there are tons of safe and effective options already discussed by others, and solid mixups for each, really. We can easily bait/condition reactions and end stocks. Depends on character and opponent, but I recommend just going out there and trying to get between them and the ledge and use aerials. Nair and bair are quick and at least trade with most recoveries. Don't be afraid to make mistakes if it means learning.
Once you get better, If you miss, observe and learn why you missed against a particular character, and do something different to force a different reaction. Make them have to do something spectacular to recover.
Gibbs is just saying don't expect a free brain dead kill whenever they're off stage. There are some nice recoveries, but there is almost always a way to at least tack on %, if not kill.
Tl;dr
A good Pika can play decently off stage and force the opponent to pull of something spectacular. Takes practice against characters and knowing your aerials.
Running off stage and hitting with one or two hits of forward air before they recover upwards is usually enough to gimp most characters. Yet another conditioning option so you can bait an air dodge, punish with a DJ nair, for example.
Point is, there are tons of safe and effective options already discussed by others, and solid mixups for each, really. We can easily bait/condition reactions and end stocks. Depends on character and opponent, but I recommend just going out there and trying to get between them and the ledge and use aerials. Nair and bair are quick and at least trade with most recoveries. Don't be afraid to make mistakes if it means learning.
Once you get better, If you miss, observe and learn why you missed against a particular character, and do something different to force a different reaction. Make them have to do something spectacular to recover.
Gibbs is just saying don't expect a free brain dead kill whenever they're off stage. There are some nice recoveries, but there is almost always a way to at least tack on %, if not kill.
Tl;dr
A good Pika can play decently off stage and force the opponent to pull of something spectacular. Takes practice against characters and knowing your aerials.
HudnofskiBlue
Smash Cadet
Ok thx for the input.