Wavedash OoS Question

[jacobpilawa]

Alright guys, this may be the dumbest thread in existence, but I need some help.

So basically, I use the R button for everything; shielding, wding, l-canceling. However, I find it exceptionally hard to only use the R to wavedash out of shield. For any of you that have had this problem, how have you handled it? Do you have any tips on what I can do? Or is it one of those things that I have to straight up make myself do for like a week to get used to it?

Also, how often should I wavedash out of shield as opposed to like dair or jump?

Thanks. :D

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Alright guys, this may be the dumbest thread in existence, but I need some help.

So basically, I use the R button for everything; shielding, wding, l-canceling. However, I find it exceptionally hard to only use the R to wavedash out of shield. For any of you that have had this problem, how have you handled it? Do you have any tips on what I can do? Or is it one of those things that I have to straight up make myself do for like a week to get used to it?

Also, how often should I wavedash out of shield as opposed to like dair or jump?

Thanks. :D

Not in the least is this the dumbest, but no need for you to have claim a question as dumb, good, etc. Just ask away :D

You could alternate with L and R. It might be a bit weird at first, but it can be really efficient to split up actions across multiple fingers. You tend to minimize mistakes and speed up your process.I know of a few people who do this. Otherwise, I completely learned to get quick enough to use shield -> wavedash with Marth from the L-trigger. I mean he has a 5-6 frame jump squat which can be enough time to release trigger and press down again. You only need the click. If you are light shielding the process is even easier since you just go from light press to all the way down press.

Figure out some method and stick with it. Maybe eventually you could learn to do it a different way later on if you feel like. Not reflated to Marth, but I always used Y to jump with Falco shine stuff. Eventually started having my own methods for when to use tap jump and Y jump. You could use your own methods for shield, wavedash, and l-canceling.

Your wavedash OoS should be in response to your opponent. Its not really a matter of how often you do it, but rather compared to the choices you have available. If you can grab (and actually get it), do it. If you cannot punish something from behind you, you could run away with wavedash or roll. However, a perfect wavedash OoS has a good deal less lag compared to a regular dropping your shield. By frame 6-7 you are actually moving away or towards a target from the wavedash compared to simply being in place until about frame 22(?) from a shield drop.

In short, WD OoS should always be used compared to dropping your shield. After that it depends upon if another action gets you a punish or not. If you are too far away while in shield, WD OoS to get closer for your punish (say a grab). However, some situations require the usage of something much faster and safer like roll. I suppose it is customary to finish with saying that being in shield is a bad situation to be in in the first place. You have greatly reduced options compared to walking or standing. If you are shielding you are sort of hoping your opponent messes up on how to approach you in shield.

 

[jacobpilawa]

By alternating between L and R, do you mean basically using whatever feels right at the time? Get comfortable/able to use both for all of my actions?

By the way, super insightful. Thanks a bunch dude. :D

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

By alternating between L and R, do you mean basically using whatever feels right at the time? Get comfortable/able to use both for all of my actions?

By the way, super insightful. Thanks a bunch dude. :D

I meant using L or R for whatever situation you feel is easiest. For example, with Falco's shine stuff, I used to try to shine -> y button -> Z button to do a shinegrab on the ground. But, it felt really awkward and slow. Now, I am trying to teach myself to shine grab using tap jump -> z button instead. Or, for a normal shine -> wavedash, I just use the y button instead of the tap jump. I am using tap jump versus y button depending upon what action I need to do from a shine.

So far Marth, maybe you feel it is easiest to shield with R, then to wavedash OoS you release R, but press L to do the wavedash. While you might go about using R for all other usage of wavedash. Stuff like this. So, built up your muscle memory in whatever way works best for you.

 

[jacobpilawa]

Alright, thanks a bunch! And yeah, I do the same thing with Falco. Jump out of shine - I use tap to jump. Wavedash OoS - Y. Stuff like that.

 

[DerfMidWest]

wavedash OoS is amazing, just sayin'

 

[jacobpilawa]

Derf you're amazing, just sayin'

 

[SAUS]

If you shield with L, for instance, you can wavedash out of shield using R for the wavedash without letting go of L. That is how I do it. The thing is, though, I learned it like that coincidentally. I just happened to shield with L and then learn to wavedash with R. You'd have to change your habits which, imo, is super annoying. It definitely is possible to wavedash OoS with the same trigger, so you can learn it like that. Xeylode explained how it can be done, but to reiterate, if you let go of R to the point where you would light shield, you can click it back in and still get the air dodge (to wavedash with), so you don't need to release it all the way.

As for its application, it is absolutely amazing for getting out of situations where you are in a bad spot and you are shielding. Wavedash lets you basically just run out of your shield, which is extremely useful for repositioning. You can use it to punish moves like a forward smash on the back of your shield by wavedashing back and then getting your grab or you can use it to get away from some dangerous shield pressure. It's a good way to keep mobile and gives you a bit more lenience with your shield.

 

[jacobpilawa]

I might start trying to do the same trigger thing, thanks. I feel as though it would be more of a pain to learn that than to just redo wavedashing with my L.

Thanks, nevertheless. :D @ SAUS

 

[AprilShaw]

Hey Baby Jake, I used to be in the same boat you are. I used R for shielding and for wavedashing. To get over this, I drilled out every possible combination of buttons for wavedashing and shielding. So I learned to wavedash with both R and L from shielding with both R and L consistently. I do it all sorts of different ways depending on the situation, but I never think about it, and my fingers never slip up. I just do whatever is closest/most natural/most comfortable without thinking about it.

As a side note, I did the same with jumping, and if you watch my hands while I play, you'll see me using X or Y for short hopping, all 3 buttons for full/double jumps, I switch from normal grip to claw all the time, stuff like that. I feel like learning things multiple ways lets your hands do things more naturally. I also never experience joint pain from playing smash, which some people do, but that also might be from playing for 12 years haha

 

[DJ _ICE]

I use R for everything (I just can't get used to using L at all) so when I wavedash out of shield I let go of R to press Y then IMMEDIATELY push down R in time to do the air dodge. It takes practice and quite a bit for force on your right index finger but it works

 

[krazyzyko]

Use tap jump.

 

[2-Tone]

This is one thing that I've found hard to get used to. WD'ing oos in itself isn't hard, but timing it right after, say, a fox hits your raised shield, is a little rough because of shield stun. Teaching yourself to do it in neutral is good, but it's one of those techniques you can't practice on your own when it comes to your shield being hit. A great approach with Marth, I've found, is to dash in and throw up your shield and then WD oos. A lot of the people I play are thrown off by it and it's relatively safe. All in all, it's much more efficient and opens up a lot more options to WD oos than to jump or drop. As for the fingering(ha), I find it easier to use the R trigger if you don't use L for WD'ing normally. I only use L to WL and L-Cancel. I agree with AprilShaw, just try it in all different ways until you find what feels the most natural.