Wave overestimate\underestimate

[captainlukey]

ok if your in this thread the title has obviously caught your eye and your wondering what this is all about...
ok it just seems depending on the group you play smash with has a great bearing on whether or not the wavedash is given credit e.g people who cant wavedash or dont like advanced techs (jerks) will always say something like "yeah you can wavedash but my marths long range c smash will kill you" or even that advanced techs are ruining the game (yes this has happened before, anyone who has seen "Anonymous's" comments on google video knows what im talking about)
but it seems that people who do know of these advanced techniques tend to overestimate the wavedash, ussually saying something like "yeah you beat me 4 to 1 but i can wavedash" and then your sitting there thinking "well if your wavedash is so good how come i just beat you 4 to 1"
incase your wondering yes i can wavedash, yes i love it, yes it has won me more than one match, but i just think that amongst advanced techers the wavedash gets more than its fair share of credit.
i mean why doesnt the Z air catch get as much credit as it has won me more matches than a WD has.... and its not even an advanced tech.
but on the other side of the table i don't think id ever beat a marth player that only uses the c stick, without a wave dash.
so wat do u smashers think?
am i rite?
does the WD get overestimated and underestimated between the different groups?
and why do you think this is?
should we just cut a big hole in the ground and throw all the unadvanced players in there to teach them to wavedash or do unadvanced players have it rite?
(ps. dont mention anything about foxs waveshine even though it is a really solid use for the WD)

 

[pdk]

it all comes down to the char you're using (if anyone has it good that's samus, and young link's grab and dsmash aren't half as good without it) but scrubs always have the same arguments against WDing so don't bother pondering them

 

[Zink]

Was this same topic, word for word, not posted a while ago? Or am I going crazy?

 

[captainlukey]

yes you are going crazy, i spent fifteen just then typing that

 

[ElfenLiedPeach]

I'm not quite sure what you're aiming at, but I'm guessing you're asking whether we think that wavedashing is overrated or underrated and why, so I'll answer the question based on that assumption...


Personally, I think the wavedash gets just the right amount of credit. I mean, it isn't really that hard with a little bit of practice, and the benefits of using it far outweigh what little effort you have to put in to learn how to perform it. You mentioned Fox's waveshine; that's only one thing the WD brings about. Pretty much everyone has a good use for the WD, no matter what the length. Slower characters with low traction such as the IC and Luigi can utilize it as a method of moving around the stage quickly. Characters like Marth might just use it for a little added elusiveness and unpredictability with movements. Space animals (well, mainly fox) use it to make it all the more difficult to follow what they are doing with your eyes, as well as bringing out the try potential of the shine. Personally, I use it for quick and effective spacing with Peach.

Really, the great thing about the WD is the freedom it gives the character. You can do anything out of a WD, from smashes to aerials, to shields, to grabs, to dodges...you get the point. For a lot of characters, WD is the fastest possible way to edgehog.

However, I'd hardly say WD is the most crucial advanced tech for high level play. That title easily goes to l-canceling. Without l-canceling, the pace of the game would go down tremendously, and aerials wouldn't be so favorable. There wouldn't be pillars for falcos, ken combos for marths, and a lot of applicable combos would not be possible if not for the l-cancel. The l-cancel influences the speed of any character tremendously. Some really high level players, I'll use Aniki for an example, pretty much never WD at all. L-cancel is his bread and butter.

Pretty much, wavedashing can help, but you don't need to utilize it to be a good player. However, at the very least, one should know what possibilities the WD opens up considering the fact that many people they play will use the WD somewhere in their playstyle. The only people I'd flame for being n00bs are the ones that not only refuse to learn advanced techs, but they idiotically refute their impact on the outcome of a match.

 

[Pye]

pdk is right in saying it depends on the character, but in general, wavedashing is severely overestimated. Of all the techniques for some reason, wavedashing is always the first one people find out about. On another board, I can't remember which one it was, but there was this guy named like "SUPERSAMUS99" or something like that. He was making posts that sounded like "I'm really looking forward to Brawl online, but do really good players worry anyone aside of me? More specifically, players who can wavedash! I don't want to log on to Brawl just to get beaten by some guy who can do this really hard technique! They should remove wavedashing in Brawl!"

As hilarious as it was, it was also infuriating. This guy obviously had no idea what he was talking about, and any would-be Brawl player who reads it might be turned off the game for nothing. I'll admit that when I meet a new smash player, I always ask them wether they know what a wavedash is, just to see how much of the game they know (chances are, if they know what a wavedash is, they know what shffling and all that other stuff is too. If you chose to do this too, be sure to ask them what it is if they answer yes, just to filter out all the "it's Fox's overB!" people). Also, when I first started looking up compeditive smash tactics online, the first one I came across was wavedashing, and I naturally overrated how useful it was.

Most newbs seem to think that beeing able to WD will instantly win them matches, it's true. Like ElfenLiedPeach though, I have to award the "most important technique" to l-canceling, and it takes a while to get new players to realize this.

 

[vericz]

It's not just the fact that someone can just wavedash it's how they apply it that actually gives them an advantage. Randomly wavedashing does nothing for a player. You have to apply in the game knowing all the different uses such, as being able to do anything because you are still in the standing animation, waveland, use with mindgames, wavedash onto a ledge, and wavedash to space yourself. There are so many uses that people who don't know how to wavedash, and watch as they get destroyed by someone who is wavedashing, do not see. They just don't understand why it is being used until they actually learn how to apply it.

 

[captainlukey]

Most newbs seem to think that beeing able to WD will instantly win them matches, it's true. Like ElfenLiedPeach though, I have to award the "most important technique" to l-canceling, and it takes a while to get new players to realize this.

this is wat i wanted when i started this thread,(someone finnally understands) because i too was under this illusion and how do you think it came about?
i think for me it was google video (i think i was looking for porn or something, too much grog) and i happened to find a video of ken fighting a shiek as marth, it was an amazing battle and at that point i had never heard of advanced techs, and just watching him slide around was amazing....
but watching the same battle now i think ken owes that victory to shffls.
so i think i have to agree pye.
thanx for the down to earth reply unlike phana

 

[Red Exodus]

I think DIing, JCing, CCing, L-canceling and SHFFLing [I know this involves L-canceling, but I think L-cancel should be mentioned on it's own] are more important that wavedashing.

I don't know any advanced techniques but I would like to learn them, see my sig to see why I can't.