Was Sakurai inspired by Project M?

[thatoneguy1]

it seems like a lot of things from pm made it into ssb4. If the ssb4 team really took inspiration from pm who does the pmdt feel about that and the community as well?

 

[Sol0ke]

I don't think that was the case, I think that what the PMBR did were decisions that make general sense (I.e. Toned down randomness, no gliding, etc.)

I could be wrong.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Youre seeing things in smash 4 that could have changed regardless and attributing them to PM because you saw PM first.

 

[thatoneguy1]

ya but how is it that some moves do literally the same thing as pm? ganons side b? dk dash attack? alt costumes?

 

[Virum]

ya but how is it that some moves do literally the same thing as pm? ganons side b? dk dash attack? alt costumes?

Ganon's Side B was from Brawl and the latter two are pretty common sense. I think Sakurai and his team took design routes that they simply thought logical and fitting and that any correlation between Smash 4 and Project M is purely coincidence. Why would Sakurai take inspiration from a largely western developed fan mod anyway

 

[thatoneguy1]

really? i havent played brawl in ages so i dont remember much. Idk it seems like nintendo is trying to embrace the community and pm is pretty popular.

 

[Bazkip]

Many similarities are the result of both teams drawing inspiration from the same source, that being existing Nintendo titles. DK rolling is something from the games, for instance.

 

[Exodo]

welp, seems like the inspirations wasnt enough to make Ganon not a Falcon clone T.T

 

[Dragoomba]

ya but how is it that some moves do literally the same thing as pm? ganons side b? dk dash attack? alt costumes?

It's really just common sense, actually. DK's dash attack was always stupid. Diddy Kong has his DKC roll attack, so why not finally give DK his?

Another great example would be Charizard's new upthrow. A lot of people have assumed that they were inspired by Project M, but come on. It's seismic toss. It was questionable that he didn't have it in the first place.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

Sakurai has been dismissive towards the competitive community in its entirety. He has specifically tried to make the games not competitive. There is no way that he was at all inspired by PM. I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai has never even played PM (especially since he would have to download a modified codeset for Brawl--a game that he made--in order to play PM.)

Actually, any similarities between Smash 4 and Project M probably means that Sakurai didn't even know those things existed in Project M in the first place. Otherwise, he would be knowingly copying someone else's work.

It's unfortunate. Sakurai, the creator of the series, probably hasn't played the best Smash game.

 

[kaizo13]

if Sakurai were inspired by PM, Smash 4 would be good.

#shots

 

[Comeback Kid]

If only he took some cues with Sonic, who is pretty much the same half-baked design as always.

 

[Xenozoa425]

I dunno man, Lucario's grey color looks pretty familiar...

 

[Narpas_sword]

Yes,

I bet they both took inspiration form the colour grey.
or badgers.
or something

 

[thatoneguy1]

Yes,

I bet they both took inspiration form the colour grey.
or badgers.
or something

does this mean badgers are confirmed dlc for smash 4?

 

[Kati]

Can Samus crawl in S4 or was that just in Little Mac's announcement video?

 

[grandpappy]

I'll be writing an email to Samurai asking him to make Ike's side B jump cancelable.

samurai pls

 

[Sosuke]

when is the last time an artist was inspired by fanfiction?

 

[Exodo]

the answer is simple:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

no

 

[Chaoseater]

Honestly, after just trying out the Smash 4 demo, I think yes, he absolutely did. I mean, Links side taunt is the EXACT same animation as the secret Navi taunt from Project M. And if Donkeys roll was so obvious in the first place, why did it take the developers four games to implement it?

 

[Narpas_sword]

I'm gonna say this again.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You are falling into a logical fallacy.
(do yourself a favour and read up on it)
Youre seeing things in smash 4 that could have changed regardless and attributing them to PM because you saw PM first.

BOTH teams would have taken the DK roll from the DK games. It's pretty bloody simple to understand that...

 

[Chaoseater]

I'm gonna say this again.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You are falling into a logical fallacy.
(do yourself a favour and read up on it)
Youre seeing things in smash 4 that could have changed regardless and attributing them to PM because you saw PM first.

BOTH teams would have taken the DK roll from the DK games. It's pretty bloody simple to understand that...

No, I completely understand what youre getting at. But the Navi taunt? Its the same animation from Project M. Is that just a coincidence? And I would be more hard-pressed to believe your reasoning if both PM and Smash 4 were released at the same time. But that wasnt the case. C'mon, Nintendo had to have seen footage at least of PM and they were inspired and incorporated those aspects into the new game.

 

[Narpas_sword]

yes it's coincidence, that's exactly what coincidence IS.

you're fooling yourself into seeing connections that aren't there.

 

[Rᴏb]

No, I completely understand what youre getting at. But the Navi taunt? Its the same animation from Project M. Is that just a coincidence? And I would be more hard-pressed to believe your reasoning if both PM and Smash 4 were released at the same time. But that wasnt the case. C'mon, Nintendo had to have seen footage at least of PM and they were inspired and incorporated those aspects into the new game.

That taunt was in brawl. PM replaced it with his melee taunt but decided to keep it in as a secret one.

 

[Narpas_sword]

LOL also that ^

 

[thatoneguy1]

i think most of us are just forgetting brawl stuff existed tbh

 

[alex6309]

BOTH teams would have taken the DK roll from the DK games. It's pretty bloody simple to understand that...

If it's simple, then why did it take the devs until the fourth game to actually give him the roll? Not attributing that to PM inspiration though.

 

[Narpas_sword]

are you even thinking about what you're saying?
and how what i've already said STILL works in response to what you're saying?

 

[NisforSmash]

I wouldn't say inspired but I'm sure he's aware of some of the better changes PM has introduced and has tried to play it at least once. Considering he's the creator of smash and all i wouldn't be surprised if he secretly takes interest in PM because he isn't developing it.

 

[LydianAlchemist]

I'm gonna say this again.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You are falling into a logical fallacy.
(do yourself a favour and read up on it)
Youre seeing things in smash 4 that could have changed regardless and attributing them to PM because you saw PM first.

BOTH teams would have taken the DK roll from the DK games. It's pretty bloody simple to understand that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man - He said "if" they did. So he isn't attributing them to Project M, he is proposing the possibility. "If then" is a conditional used to entertain hypothetical scenarios. You are misrepresenting his argument to make it easier to attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance - Throughout this thread you have been saying things like "yes they were both influenced by the color grey and badgers or something.". I know this is the internet but i read it as a sarcastic tone. It's not impossible that they were influenced. Alt costumes, the sky loft stage. There is some evidence there that suggest at the least, a possibility that sm4sh took stuff from PM.

Even if OP does assume things from smash 4 were taken from Project M. That doesn't mean its not true. Even if his reasoning is wrong (it isn't..)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

and because neither the PMDT or Sakurai will ever admit to influencing each other because of legal issues that could arise. We will never know anyways. One should conclude therefore, that this is a thread made to entertain the hypothetical scenario of smash 4 being influenced by PM.

But consider that Nintendo knows PM exists, it has half a million downloads last I checked, and major gaming websites have hosted articles about it.
The visibility is there, and the possibility is there.

It's pretty bloody simple to understand that...

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

If it's simple, then why did it take the devs until the fourth game to actually give him the roll? Not attributing that to PM inspiration though.

DK country returns is a thing.
It may have sparked his interest in DK a tiny bit more since the release of brawl.

 

[thatoneguy1]

and because neither the PMDT or Sakurai will ever admit to influencing each other because of legal issues that could arise

I've always wondered why this would cause a legal issue? Is it because pm is not developed by nintendo?

One should conclude therefore, that this is a thread made to entertain the hypothetical scenario of smash 4 being influenced by PM.

this was exactly the point.

 

[Fortress]

ITT: Encyclopedia Dramatica jargon.

Spoiler

 

[G13_Flux]

alright.. in the biggest attempt to keep an open mind here, it IS possible that there is some level of inspiration that smash 4 took from PM. things like DKs dash attack, i do find it hard to believe that theyd take 4 games to implement it if they though of it on their own.. a lot of things could simply be parallels between smart game designers, but i wouldnt doubt that nintendo would adopt some aspects of PM given that its become so big in the community the past year. I dont think id be wrong in saying that its not out of the realm of posibility that nintendo could have even contacted PM devs reminding them of copyright rules, AND/OR even offering some of them jobs. think about it, a big company that has access to a pool of home made game designers that are implementing ingenious idea into a game, AND its taking off in the community and becoming a hit? why wouldnt they take on an intern or two, or even some full time workers.

keep in mind, im not stating any facts here. but when you look at the big picture, PM is kinda the next big thing, EVEN with smash 4 coming into the picture. i doubt that sakurai hasnt noticed it, and i feel it would be in his best interest to mirror even smaller additions to the game that have become popular in the competitive community.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

It doesn't matter.

 

[Narpas_sword]

alright.. in the biggest attempt to keep an open mind here, it IS possible that there is some level of inspiration that smash 4 took from PM. things like DKs dash attack, i do find it hard to believe that theyd take 4 games to implement it if they though of it on their own.. a lot of things could simply be parallels between smart game designers, but i wouldnt doubt that nintendo would adopt some aspects of PM given that its become so big in the community the past year. I dont think id be wrong in saying that its not out of the realm of posibility that nintendo could have even contacted PM devs reminding them of copyright rules, AND/OR even offering some of them jobs. think about it, a big company that has access to a pool of home made game designers that are implementing ingenious idea into a game, AND its taking off in the community and becoming a hit? why wouldnt they take on an intern or two, or even some full time workers.

keep in mind, im not stating any facts here. but when you look at the big picture, PM is kinda the next big thing, EVEN with smash 4 coming into the picture. i doubt that sakurai hasnt noticed it, and i feel it would be in his best interest to mirror even smaller additions to the game that have become popular in the competitive community.

A few things i'd like to address here. And i owe LydianAlchemist a reply too (missed it when this topic was active) ill add that and expand on this when i have time later.

Just want to address these things first.

"things like DKs dash attack, i do find it hard to believe that theyd take 4 games to implement it if they though of it on their own."

This is silly, and imposing your own restrictions and thoughts into another companies reasons and planning process.
They could have had good reasons to leave DKs attack as it was. They might have just included it after the new gen of players had seen the new DKCR game. They may have intended to change it, but time restraints caused them to leave it as is.

"but i wouldnt doubt that nintendo would adopt some aspects of PM given that its become so big in the community the past year."

PM is 'big' in OUR community. Only ours (ours being smash). And even in our community there is a divide between PM players and Melee players. Let alone Brawl players, which is also a good chunk.
It is in NO way big compared to the people that own a smash game. (ie the smash customer base).

I dont think id be wrong in saying that its not out of the realm of posibility that nintendo could have even contacted PM devs reminding them of copyright rules, AND/OR even offering some of them jobs."

I highly doubt it. considering Nintendo haven't acknowledged the existence of PM.

 

[G13_Flux]

A few things i'd like to address here. And i owe LydianAlchemist a reply too (missed it when this topic was active) ill add that and expand on this when i have time later.

Just want to address these things first.

"things like DKs dash attack, i do find it hard to believe that theyd take 4 games to implement it if they though of it on their own."

This is silly, and imposing your own restrictions and thoughts into another companies reasons and planning process.
They could have had good reasons to leave DKs attack as it was. They might have just included it after the new gen of players had seen the new DKCR game. They may have intended to change it, but time restraints caused them to leave it as is.

"but i wouldnt doubt that nintendo would adopt some aspects of PM given that its become so big in the community the past year."

PM is 'big' in OUR community. Only ours (ours being smash). And even in our community there is a divide between PM players and Melee players. Let alone Brawl players, which is also a good chunk.
It is in NO way big compared to the people that own a smash game. (ie the smash customer base).

I dont think id be wrong in saying that its not out of the realm of posibility that nintendo could have even contacted PM devs reminding them of copyright rules, AND/OR even offering some of them jobs."

I highly doubt it. considering Nintendo haven't acknowledged the existence of PM.

like i said man, im not stating any facts. but i think youre being a bit closed minded. im not trying to say that PM inspired smash 4, but Nintendo certainly knows about PM. I dont think you can really assume anything about the nature of nintendo, of what they would and wouldnt do, because you yourself do not work for them or really know anything about how they operate behind the scenes for that matter. and neither do I. im just saying thats its not out of the realm of possibility. As far as the interns go, youd be surprised how good working independently (and LEGALLY) on a game that proves you've studied nintendos coding architecture looks on a resume. ill say again, please do not be so closed minded as to automatically shut down everything people are saying. when you become a nintendo developper and find out otherwise, please contact me and say "I told you so."

 

[Narpas_sword]

*finds two semi related things*
*shoehorns them into a link of causation*
*calls the OTHER GUY close minded*

nice....

getting called close minded for not believing in something without proof irks me. May as well be arguing the existence of unicorns.

 

[G13_Flux]

no youre just shutting down possibilities when you have no proof of what is right or wrong. that indeed is close minded. you also have a poor way of generalizing other peoples arguments in an attempt to make them sound wrong. if you could read, you might have seen that I stated (several times, thank you) that I wasnt claiming to have any answers, just stating POSSIBILITIES, if you have the ability to read that word.

at any rate, youve officially stated your opinion that you think any link between PM and smash 4 is incorrect. thank you for your opinion, but if you have nothing constructive to offer, or any actual evidence that Im wrong, then this quarell is over since well probably never figure out the answer to the question that this thread is asking.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Everything I say is constructive =)

and I'm not shutting down possibilities lol, I'm suggesting there's a lot more involved than the narrow minded (see how it feels) approach of 'this happened after this therefore this happened because of this'