Wario's F-Smash is almost useless

[The_Master_E]

While playing with my friends (we're both non-competitive), I've noticed that Wario's F-Smash is almost pointless.

He stays in the air for WAY too long! A misfire is almost suicidal! I can't name how many times I've been tilted off the stage while he stays there flapping his arms.

And what makes it a double whammy is the fact that his Shoulder Bash is simply an all around better move. In the same amount of time it takes to charge up an F-Smash that sends the foe the same distance a Shoulder Bash would, the Shoulder Bash would have already hit. Combined with the fact that the Shoulder Bash has more range and can serve as a red haring for a Grab, I don't see why anyone would ever F-Smash as Wario.

 

[The_Master_E]

Same applies to F-Tilt, but not with as much of a similarity as Shoulder Bash is to F-Smash. Obviously before the hit than after.

 

[SixSaw]

Fsmash comes out faster than shoulder bash. It's possible to combo into it with aerials.
Ftilt has more range and less endlag as well as disjointed hitboxes which make it good for punishes as well as edgeuarding.

Both moves are far from pointless. (Wario really has no bad moves)

 

[DMG]

Fsmash is sort of a bad move. Then again, you don't *need* Fsmash to win with Wario anyways.

 

[\Apples]

Y'all just don't know how to use it. CC Fsmash is my ****. Gets people ALL THE TIME.

You heard it here first.

EDIT: Also, if you get a grab on a spacie at low %, you can totally Uthrow > Nair > Fsmash in lieu of Uthrow > Nair > Regrab. Usually, they're trying to DI down and tech the stage and if you're close enough to the edge they'll DI hella low off stage and then it's their Up+B vs the nairplane, and we all know who wins that battle.

 

[DMG]

I didn't think DI down mattered for throws like Uthrow. Since it's against the natural angle it sends. I can imagine holding left or right, and trying to tech, but down? Ouchie

 

[\Apples]

They're DI'ing the N-air down, not the throw. You juggle them with the N-air above you and they fall naturally into the top of your Fsmash.

 

[DMG]

Ohhh. I read the chain of events wrong. M'bad

 

[\Apples]

Ohhh. I read the chain of events wrong. M'bad

And if it's not down, it's out to get away from you. So you give 'em the boot.

 

[DMG]

Ye

Stomp 'em in the... head

 

[mYzeALot]

I remember I was playing with my friend some time after 2.5 came out vs his lucario mounting a comeback, and I just used d-tilt three times (crouch-canceled) into an F-smash to break his shield. I then Daired into waft to come back and win the game.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's his fastest reasonably-strong attack, has good range, and lasts a little longer than it appears to. It certainly has its niche.

 

[Athorment]

I think it's pretty good, but not the best option when you have his air mobility.

Though i would indeed give it a very tiny minor adjustment that may improve it's usability as well. Just like with Wario's tilt-side, make it so that the Smash attack can be extended (How much it lasts) by leaving the A button pressed. This way you can get a quick Kick and then react afterwards OR you can have Wario wiggle his arms in the air, extending how long the hitbox lasts active. Of course, the "wiggling" portion of the smash attack would not be as strong as the initial attack (I figure perhaps Neutral A nuisance of level), but it could cover you if people rush in expecting you to use the Quick kick instead.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

If you did that it would make ftilt kinda pointless.

 

[CyberZixx]

I think the move has a lower base knockback is is quicker than SB but has less range than forward tilt. So they all have their niche use.

 

[ECTO]

For certain matchups F-Smash is great because you can use it to finish up a combo. It just comes out really fast and the knockback sends then them in a lower angle than Side-B. Great for setting up an edgeguard, with Down-Air or Waft stage spike.

The lower angle knockback is the key to success with that move.

 

[Athorment]

My idea does not necessarily turn F-Tilt useless. If anything, quite the opposite really.
You see, my idea involves the wiggling animation to be weak (Neutral A kind of weak) So it covers you if you completely whiff it (Unless of course they roll behind you, in which case it just gives more time for the foe to charge a punish).
The F-Tilt however can be delayed to make it more powerful. Aka, adds a mind game of throwing a quick Kick + wiggling covering you (Or no wiggling to trick foes and mess the timing of their punish) Or expect a quick kick when really Wario is delaying his F-Tilt.

Though if you still disagree with my idea i guess that the Wiggling animation could be left there when the attack whiffs and is removed completely on hit instead. Be my guess