WARIO IS OP

[OMN15145H]

Don't get me wrong, he's still a great character (and my main) but adding on multi-hit properties to Corkscrew and his new ground-pound dair makes Wario nigh-unstoppable once you get above (or below) your opponents. Sure, some of his attacks (shoulder bash, side smash, etc.) leave him vulnerable, but his offensive capabilities are so incredible it the vulnerability period doesn't really matter.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Nope, Wario is very much "middle of the road". He's very solid, and more viable than most give him credit for, but he's nowhere near OP.

 

[mYzeALot]

I still dislike the side-b change in the air so far. I am not landing very many hits into it, but if I do it's not powerful enough to take a way half of the travel distance.

 

[DMG]

The new Side B is a nerf because his momentum ends so abrubtly during it. It would feel comparable to before if you kept some of that momentum going forward still. I can accept a distance nerf, but it's like awkward atm. Like the intricacies of angling it up neutral or down get lost because regardless you're going to drop height after it before being able to move. If you dragged a bit forward with momentum after the move was done, you would notice the difference in angles better and maybe would have cooler platform cancel opportunities/tricks.

 

[turtletank]

His Side B actually retains more horizontal momentum than before, so it isn't as bad as it seems at first glance.
Just takes some getting used to.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Side-B should make Wario trip and Up-B should do a downward spike hitbox to himself. Balanced Now?

 

[\Apples]

You're close with the OP rating, but it has nothing to do with his UpB.

 

[OMN15145H]

I know, but I'm just saying that Corkscrew in PJM is WAY more powerful than it was in Brawl.. (multi-hit properties, easier movement, etc.)

 

[Ace55]

I'm fairly sure upB has always had multi hits (like even in Brawl), so what do you mean?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It does the same amount of damage in Brawl as it does in PM. It draws people in better than in Brawl now, though, so the final hit actually connects (unlike Brawl, where that basically never happened).

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

wario is pretty bad
i play lucario and wolf aswell, i know what good characters are

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I know, but I'm just saying that Corkscrew in PJM is WAY more powerful than it was in Brawl.. (multi-hit properties, easier movement, etc.)

Lol PJM? The only thing I could honestly see that makes it better now is that it sends you at a bit of an angle, as opposed to straight up. Stage spikes quite a few people cause they don't expect it, lol they usually look disgusted that it happened.

@ MikeHaggarTHAKJB - I've heard you say that he is bad a couple times, and I can't see wario as a bad character, care to elaborate?

 

[Juushichi]

You... play Lucario and call Wario... bad?

WHAAAAAT.

 

[\Apples]

Dude Lucario is good as **** don't even joke.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

You... play Lucario and call Wario... bad?

WHAAAAAT.

lucario is WAAAAAAAAAAY better then wario has ever been
how on earth can anyone think LUCARIO is bad
what the **** is going on

 

[Nguz95]

Well, he is currently a prime example of Nerf City v2.6. Wario has not yet had the displeasure of having all but his most difficult combos taken away. Wario won Apex (he beat 2.5 Sonic too). Lucario, unfortunately, hasn't won anything.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I'm not sure whether you're being serious or not Mike, because I can't imagine someone seriously calling Wario bad. He has a lot going for him: Nasty Off-stage Game, heavy weight, Great pokes (literally) and aerials, a unique Mix-up game, disgustingly potent kill power, AMAZING throws matched up with great grab range (especially when coupled with jump cancels), he even has a DACUS.

Besides a few tweaks, I really feel like Wario is at the perfect power level (Despite this thread's, albeit old, title and your post Mike) No offense to Lucario at all, but Wario is certainly better than him, his weaknesses are a lot less glaring/detrimental than Luc's.

 

[Giygacoal]

Lucario, unfortunately, hasn't won anything.

I think Fuzzyness took both Fox and Lucario to a tournament and won a few months ago. He probably used Fox for grand finals.

 

[Giygacoal]

You... play Lucario and call Wario... bad?

WHAAAAAT.

I think Lucario's pretty good but needs a few buffs. People just aren't doing enough general research on him.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Well, he is currently a prime example of Nerf City v2.6. Wario has not yet had the displeasure of having all but his most difficult combos taken away. Wario won Apex (he beat 2.5 Sonic too). Lucario, unfortunately, hasn't won anything.

dude, fuzzyness -.-
are you people still unaware that a scene outside of your country exists or something
and lucarios combos are easy and free for the most part, seriously

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I'm not sure whether you're being serious or not Mike, because I can't imagine someone seriously calling Wario bad. He has a lot going for him: Nasty Off-stage Game, heavy weight, Great pokes (literally) and aerials, a unique Mix-up game, disgustingly potent kill power, AMAZING throws matched up with great grab range (especially when coupled with jump cancels), he even has a DACUS.

Besides a few tweaks, I really feel like Wario is at the perfect power level (Despite this thread's, albeit old, title and your post Mike) No offense to Lucario at all, but Wario is certainly better than him, his weaknesses are a lot less glaring/detrimental than Luc's.

when i say wario is bad its relative to PM, bad in this context is hightier in melee

lucario is way, way better then wario. there is seriously nothing to discuss.
what weaknesses does lucario even have LOL

 

[\Apples]

Lucario is pretty weak to spot dodge and he's hella easy to combo.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I don't know much about high level lucario stuff unfortunately, I just know some general stuff. Like apples said, he is pretty easy to combo because of his fall speed, same goes for chain grabs. His recovery isn't really great, unless he has aura, but even then its kinda meh. His roll, and shield are absolute garbage. He also doesn't have much range....thats all I can really think of. I honestly have no idea whats going on in your region mike, but then again, I barely know whats going in mine lol. Are there a lot of lucarios dominating around your area?

 

[\Apples]

Lucario's Range is actually kinda good. His recovery is good, he always makes it back but he isn't all that hard to edgeguard, especially with Wario's Nair.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

What weaknesses does Lucario have? Umm, have you tried crouch canceling against him? Because it basically shuts him down.

I think they're both good characters, I play them both, but I'm pretty sure Wario is the better one. It seems... obvious to me.

 

[hydrobatmann]

Wario's fart doesn't fly quite as high as it's on Brawl when it's full charged , but i think it's useful if you're trying to get back to the platform and the up-b (we doesn't have a motorcycle to do a extra jump in Project M T.T ), or we can send the other player out of the screen >:3. It's fun when you get enough closer and quickly you perform the fart to hit the other player. Sometimes F-tilt can be used to edge guard , and d-air i think it's powerful and can spike a char who is on the air if there is a chance to do it xD. I'm just trying to help a bit n.n

 

[shwickid222]

Lucario has a solid approach. And sometimes its hard to get his ass off of u at times. But wario is deff better. U should see loe1 play him. Hes a beast. U can use his fart as a shine cause if u get hit with it while getting on stage its a wrap. He has alot of priority and with his shoulder charge u can jump with it knowing an opponet thought u wernt lol. I main ganon in project m and i 'laced 5th at mi ranbats sat. I lost to loe1 but then again its a terrible match up. I fought tech chase and anther. But look dude... lucario is a failed goku has been he can fall off the face of snakeway for all i care... see what i did there? No? Oh well

 

[Jreed420]

When people say wario is op because of his shoulder bash it makes me want to shoulder bash them irl lol. If u shield it that's all u get any free ATK because wario has to many frames of hit lag. Wario has to work for everything he gets

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Pretty much man. Now that the crouch is gone from side b you have to commit to the move quite a bit. You can get a lot out of it because of its damage, the distance it travels, and the size of the hitbox, but having said that, the risk in hitting someone's shield with it is very extreme. I think it might be one of the most unsafe moves on shield in the entire game, ha ha its pretty bad. Still I think its a very balanced move, and there is hardly any reason to change anything about it now.

 

[SixSaw]

SideB becomes a lot safer when you go airborne. 27 frames of impact lag vs 55 when grounded, in addition to a small bounce that can let you escape the range of some OoS punishes.

I don't know exactly how shieldstun is calculated in PM (would love if someone could fill me in), but I'm pretty sure the strongest hitbox of grounded sideB is at most within a handful of frames of being safe on shield from the air.

 

[Nguz95]

Why can't this thread die already...