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Walling Effectively: Mixed or Dedicated?

Zankoku

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So I've been messing around with a few stall teams and I got to wondering whether it's better to have a wall great at soaking both physical and special damage, or one that takes practically nothing from one or the other, but not both.

Dedicated Walls



While technically, you could max out EVs in their off stat and make them somewhat more survivable against those hits, it's typically only just enough to live through an unexpected attack. However, these Pokémon are exceptional at blocking out anything in their specialized field that doesn't outright super them (or, in some cases, even attacks that do super them - a Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast will only hit Blissey for 30% life at most) and can typically end up forcing a switch, either due to Choice locks, or through sheer attrition. Keeping these Pokémon on your team makes you awfully predictable as to who's coming in for the next attack, though. Usually these walls are set to only either entry hazard utility or pure stalling, as several of them lack an exceptional attack/special attack stat, and offensive movepools tend to be limited. A few, like Snorlax and Hippowdon, can still hit back reasonably hard, though.

Balanced Walls




While the balanced walls tend not to be able to completely negate any single kind of attack against them, they're still very much able to live through nearly any non-super attack. They also tend to be much, much more plentiful in terms of options. Generally the strategy with these tend to differ, as well, with some able to play a PP/Toxic stalling game and landing hits here and there, while others boost up their defense specialty and then start cleaning up if left unhindered. Still others are around only to set up support or status before a dedicated wall comes in.




Yeah, what're your thoughts? Seems like balanced walls can reduce a lot of necessary switches and hold their own in more situations, but there's no denying how well things like Skarmory and Blissey can just shut down a Choice...
 

UltiMario

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I can't call Togekiss a wall. Bulky Offense? Yes. Wall? No.

I'd say the same for Heatran, but its 40,000,000 resistances end up making it "bulky"
 

mood4food77

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blissey is the best wall in the game just by pure stats

skarmory has the best typing in the game (based on that calculation smogon did) that also happens to have an awesome base defense

cresselia should be the 2nd overall bulkiest pokemon in the game (2nd to giratina) but being psychic really hinders it's tanking abilities

yea, it's kinda weird seeing togekiss, zapdos, dragonite, and heatran up there

they hit too hard but they have good staying power

also, you missed donphan as a physical wall
 

UltiMario

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Just to say, Skarm has the best EXISTING type/ability combo in the game. electric/Steel with levitate is better. Weak to Fighting and Fire, Neutral to Water, immune to Poison and Ground, resistant to 12 other types.

Also Zapdos is totally a wall what are you smoking
 

kirbyraeg

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Walls need resistances, man.

If Empoleon got Magnet Rise it would be so cool.

Mixed walls all the way unless you want to stall, then have a few of all of them (dedicated physical, mixed, dedicated special)
 

supermarth64

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For the record I used my Skarm back during the Latias era as a special wall.

... What?
 

Wave⁂

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Specially defensive Skarmory does NOT die.

Anyways, usage statistics say that dedicated walls win, with the exception of Rotom-A.
 

UltiMario

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That's sorta cheating considering Rotom-A is combined usage of 5 different Pokemon doing 5 slightly different things.
 

The Real Gamer

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I feel like a bunch of dedicated walls on a single team would be able to handle more situations than a team of balanced walls.

And dedicated walls (particularly Blissey and Skarmory) are simply a pain to get past and can single handedly take take down a group of Pokemon that they are designed to counter.

Blissey vs. Choice Specs Jolteon, LO Starmie, and Choice Scarf Shaymin... Blissey wins.
 

Wave⁂

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I feel like a bunch of dedicated walls on a single team would be able to handle more situations than a team of balanced walls.
Wall breakers are a big problem for these teams. Infernape tears most some of them up.
That's sorta cheating considering Rotom-A is combined usage of 5 different Pokemon doing 5 slightly different things.
There's really only two, Overheat for Steels and Leaf Storm for Swampert.
 

Zankoku

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Thanks for the comments, everyone. They were helpful, I promise! :)
 

ss118

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I always use Rotom-w. You can keep Swampert/ Scizor/ Forretress at bay with WoW and you can fake Hydro Pump so that Tyranitar/ Heatran don't come in immediately.

Also you need to define the difference between a "dedicated" wall and a "mixed" wall? I personally consider Blissey a mixed wall because with max defense she can tank hits pretty well: not as good as skarmory, but people will agree it is much easier to OHKO Skarmory with a special attack than it is to OHKO Blissey with a physical attack. And if you go into strange EV spreads, then even things like skarmory/ forretress become mixed walls.

Personally I think being able to tank both kinds of hits is best: if you are a mixed wall the best thing is to have insane stats with few weaknesses. Dedicated walls, on the other hand, should focus primarily on resistances more than anything else.
 

mood4food77

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blissey is a ***** in general

i think she's just a wall, doesn't matter what side, she's a *****

cresselia used to be, until scizor got bullet punch and started punching babies
 

supermarth64

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Gengar is one of the few special attackers that can beat Blissey without setting up. Him, Lucario, and a FF'd Heatran.

The others require setup, are mixed, or Selfdestruct/Explosion.
 

Zankoku

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I think Cresselia's more afraid of things like U-Turn and Pursuit than she is of Bullet Punch.
 

Zankoku

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I kind of got bored staring at the listing and deciding which ones had good stats to wall with. And I didn't bother looking at NU tier.
 

mood4food77

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well

scizor didn't have bullet punch until Platinum, which is the main reason why he became the number 1 poke

if scizor doesn't have bullet punch, he doesn't get used as often
 

Purtle

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Well I think that having teams of both types have their advantages.

I think that using dedicated walls is usually very boring, so i try not to have teams like that.
 

CT Chia

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Slowbro = awesome mixed wall

Other than Slowbro I like dedicated walls more

Move Snorlax to mixed wall

I see mixed walls the best as when they are very buff in one of the two defenses, then access to a move that can boost the other defensive stat. Such as Slowbro being high in defense and calm mind to boost sdef, or Snorlax with high sdef and curse to boost def
 

ss118

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Use Rollout on it.

And you think I'm kidding.

Edit: I was hoping 640 base power would make up for the lousy 119 stat....
 
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