Waddle-Dash: Creative Use and Versatility Disscussion

[Ridel]

I said I would open this up when I got the chance so since I re-posted my Dedede Guide I thought now would be a good time. Plus this thread has been empty for awhile and needs some more activity.

So discuss away!!!

 

[Ticker]

So i just picked up pm and I like the way Dedede plays. I've gotten down shffl, wavelands, and wavedashes, and I am wondering whether it is better to jump and airdodge into the waddle dee or wavedash into it.

 

[Ridel]

So i just picked up pm and I like the way Dedede plays. I've gotten down shffl, wavelands, and wavedashes, and I am wondering whether it is better to jump and airdodge into the waddle dee or wavedash into it.

If you want to go far I would hold the control stick completely horizontal to get the most momentum.

 

[Captain Birdman]

One implementation of the Waddle Dash I like to do involves Dedede's recovery game from the ledge. Here's the common scenario. You've grabbed the ledge and need to get back on stage. The opponent is standing a short distance away just outside of your F-air's range. What you do is lean back, puff, and toss a waddle dee right at them. The idea isn't necessarily to get a hit, but for waddle dee to make contact with them (including their shield). As long as they don't dodge, waddle dee will bounce off of them and land right next to the ledge, providing you with a free waddle dash back onto the stage. Catching the opponent off guard with this extra dash can often lead to a grab and almost immediately put them off the stage, reversing the situation. And I think we all know of Dedede's godliness off the stage.

 

[Chooshoe]

Personally, I use the waddle dash more as an approach than anything, due to its versatility based on your distance from the ground. I found that if you jump and very quickly dodge you can usually just slide straight into a grab, which catches some off guard. I have yet to see a reason to recover with it, save for the speed and tossing a weapon, but then again I'm less competent with this tech so far.

 

[Smur]

I've pulled this little string off enough times for me to call it viable, it can usually end in a F-air.

video source: http://youtu.be/8UUKZrUcQRo

 

[Ridel]

I've pulled this little string off enough times for me to call it viable, it can usually end in a F-air.

video source: http://youtu.be/8UUKZrUcQRo

I've notice tossing the Waddle Dee down is a good way to get a lot of momentum, but this is also a good mind game set-up as you can opt to not go for the Waddle-Dash forward and instead retreat backward, or you can just not go for the Dash altogether and bait out their shield into a grab.

 

[ilikcereal101]

So new dedede player when I try to waffle dash I just air dodge I seem to only be able to wave dash it

 

[Ridel]

So new dedede player when I try to waffle dash I just air dodge I seem to only be able to wave dash it

Are you air-dodging into it or are you just doing a neutral Air-Dodge cause doing a neutral Air-Dodge does nothing but toss the Waddle Dee slightly faster.

 

[ilikcereal101]

Ohhhh thanks

 

[L Pag]

It's not necessarily Waddle Dashing, but I've been looking into using Waddles for edge guarding. I don't have any examples of this working, but I have examples of me using it in the lab. First off, I guess I'll mention zee tossing. If you perform a rising zee toss to get off stage and throw the waddle at an upward angle, it'll go pretty low, so that covers a low recovery option, while Dedede is already off stage so he can continue forward and cover a straight recovery, such as luigi's side b. You can also do a rising zee toss at a downward angle near the ledge to catch people using low recoveries (Luigi's down b near the stage, Snake's up b, any character using a wall jump, and tether characters during the falling animation of a tether grab)

Spoiler

http://gfycat.com/NaturalHelplessDunlin
Using a rising zee toss to cover low recoveries, going out further for fair

http://gfycat.com/ParchedIncompleteJuliabutterfly
WADDLE SPIKEEEEEE​

I've also been fooling around with some edge guard set ups by making two waddle dees hit each other, but it mostly seems to work just for style. Generally, if you do this, one of the waddles will come back to where you threw it, and you can waddle dash with it to go out off stage and fair or of the sort. The best set ups I've found are Hard toss upward and a hard toss downward at the ledge, Jumping to a platform and hard tossing a waddle up as you rise followed by a hard toss down when you land, and a hard toss upward on a platform, the drop through and do a soft toss down. Also, if the first waddle you throw is a waddle doo, it will send waddle dees a tad bit higher and farther, so be careful of that. Sorry if I did a bad job explaining that, but gfycats, so it's okay.

Spoiler

http://gfycat.com/QuickBadBlackcrappie
standing hard toss up to hard toss down

http://gfycat.com/GenuineAridFlies
Full hop hard toss up to standing hard toss down (Better to use on stage imo)

http://gfycat.com/KlutzyPaleGrackle
Full hop onto platform, hard toss up, hard toss down (video didn't convert properly, sorry for not really showing full hop :/)

http://gfycat.com/FamiliarAngelicAnnashummingbird
Hard toss upward, platform drop, soft toss down​

Also, if you throw a waddle and hit it with the wind boxes from swallow, it doesn't lose it's hitbox. You can full jump and hard toss a waddle up to make an easy set up for jump forward swallow, allowing you to pull it twords you and send the waddle at a weird angle that goes slightly under the stage, but this is extremely situational.

Spoiler

EDIT AGAIN: SMASHBOARDS KEEPS CENSORING THE LINK ;-;
​

​

​

EDIT: gycats wont embed properly, had to use links

 

[Ridel]

It's not necessarily Waddle Dashing, but I've been looking into using Waddles for edge guarding. I don't have any examples of this working, but I have examples of me using it in the lab. First off, I guess I'll mention zee tossing. If you perform a rising zee toss to get off stage and throw the waddle at an upward angle, it'll go pretty low, so that covers a low recovery option, while Dedede is already off stage so he can continue forward and cover a straight recovery, such as luigi's side b. You can also do a rising zee toss at a downward angle near the ledge to catch people using low recoveries (Luigi's down b near the stage, Snake's up b, any character using a wall jump, and tether characters during the falling animation of a tether grab)

Spoiler

http://gfycat.com/NaturalHelplessDunlin
Using a rising zee toss to cover low recoveries, going out further for fair

http://gfycat.com/ParchedIncompleteJuliabutterfly
WADDLE SPIKEEEEEE​

Wow I never though of just Z-Tossing (or Zee Tossing) and jumping, that's really cool I'll have to try that out!

 

[L Pag]

Wow I never though of just Z-Tossing (or Zee Tossing) and jumping, that's really cool I'll have to try that out!

It's called a Rising Zee Toss. I the downward one good for an approach mixup, if the waddle is already out, that is. You can actually z toss a waddle at an upward angle and waddle dash straight into it in the same jump.

Spoiler

 

[Ridel]

It's called a Rising Zee Toss. I the downward one good for an approach mixup, if the waddle is already out, that is. You can actually z toss a waddle at an upward angle and waddle dash straight into it in the same jump.

Cool, I'm gunna experiment with that!

 

[L Pag]

Back again with more still technically not waddle dashing.

So, I was wondering how useful waddles are for shield pressure. If you can do a regular re throw on someone's shield, the waddle will almost always bounce back allowing you to do it again, as seen here (sorry for poor quality, was from a netplay stream so it happened to have a lag spike there, not much I could have done about it :/). I found that if you throw a waddle dee at a downward angle, you can throw them even faster, as seen here (even more johns, since I'm lonely I had to just use a computer with the damage ratio on .5 so he wouldn't fly away from me ;-; ). When you throw them that way, you can throw one waddle every 20 frames or so (depends on Dedede's distance). Sadly, I can't properly test this because, like I said, I'm lonely and don't have someone to sit there and hold shield while I do this so I can't quite see how many frames of shield stun a waddle has (therefore how many frames they can act out of shield).

Assuming that you can get the other character in a situation where they have to jump or roll (so pretty much if you're behind a character with no oos options or in front of someone with a really small grab range), I figured you can probably follow this up with a waddle dash on their roll to punish, similar to fox's multishine to roll chase in melee, except not nearly as good and a lot more situational. Anyway, if someone can figure out how much shield stun a waddle dee and waddle doo do, that'd be just fantastic.

EDT: now that I realise it, multishine wasn't the best example. Basically, what I meant was, using this will almost always result in a roll from the other person (even though they usually do have better oos options). So, if they roll, you can chase with a waddle dash, and if they jump, you can angle the waddle up to catch them on that. Really not the best "tech" (if you wanna call it that) but it'll often lead to a free waddle hit. Just wanted to see if anyone knew how many frames of shield stun a waddle causes to fully understand the usefulness of this (how many characters can do something that's not roll or jump basically). Crap, now im rambling *_*

 

[Captain Birdman]

I'm liking some of the stuff I'm seeing here. I'll definitely be in the lab practicing some of these with my friends, finding out which ones feel more viable than others. I'm most excited to try the offstage Waddles hitting each other and having one go back. I don't have any recording equipment on me, but I'm capable of figuring out what's generally safe/useful/stylish.

Also I really want to find out some major style with D3. I'm looking for that Windbox Waddle Dee shenanigans xD That'll be great. This thread could really boost my Waddle game!

 

[QuickLava]

Haven't done all that much with Dedede, but recently I've been messing around with on-stage movement options. A pretty basic thing that took a while to get use to was being able to RAR Waddledash as a retreating option, which led to several things. One of the things I've found is that you can Waddledash into smashes both forwards and backwards. This helps supplement D3's lack of a useable DACUS, and it helps that you've got a hitbox in front of you to help stuff attacks and whatnot. It's also pretty cool that you can essentially DACUS backwards this way. By extension, this means you can Waddledash into Jab, D-tilt, Grab, etc. Another thing I've found is that you can RAR Waddledash to the ledge as a decent retreat/edgegaurd option (though regular RAR wavedashing is usually faster). When retreating, if the Waddle Dee hits your opponent close enough to the stage you can even Waddledash back on. I've also been Waddledashing backwards into ledge cancel soft B-Air -> SH Footstool -> B-Air, which while relatively difficult for me to do consistently, is actually fairly effective for gimping at low to mid percents. Another novelty option I've found is that you can taunt cancel out of Waddle Dash at the right distance. Nothing feels better than successfully spiking a low recovering opponent with Waddledash -> Taunt Cancel -> F-Smash.

 

[Key Chain]

the RAR Waddle Dash is something ive done myself and I think ive have seen D3's like Ripple, Smur, and Cpt Birdman do but its still pretty cool to see it in writing.

the whole DACUS thing though, I have lower hopes for. the increased frames at the end of the Waddle Dash in 3.5 (IASA?) along with the friction added to the dash itself would make moves take too long to come out and wont send D3 very far anyways. I remember Ripple doing Forward/Backward waddle dashes into up tilt and stealing it for my own personal gain but that was in 3.0 where D3 slid much further and can act out of the Waddle Dash sooner. as for 3.5 I feel like I may have seen Cpt. Birdman use up smash out of the newly nerfed waddle dash and it worked out fine but honestly im not sure, he just seems to have the best up smash reads to begin with.

the ledge cancel soft bair into footstool sounds amazing. would love to see it in action or try it myself but while the Waddle Dash off the stage sounds even more stylish, again, the 3.5 changes make it less practical. I think wave dashing off the stage would have the same effect on the soft bair into footstool set up using the waddle dash would make a better gfycat imo.

overall this is great information especially from someone who doesnt even use the character much. i've watched videos of D3 mains who apparently know less about the guy than you do in your limited experience.

 

[Smur]

Waddle mindgames?

 

[Ridel]

Waddle mindgames?

It looks more like a bad option from Zhime to warp on stage then to the the ledge, you mostly used the Waddle Dash to punish it.

 

[L Pag]

Waddle mindgames?

I actually try to do similar stuff with recovery, like throw a waddle upward, jump into it, then fast fall a bit before waddle dashing.

I also recently played a set with Face where I had some moments where I did some waddle throws that were perfect for waddle dashing, and didn't to throw him off. I'll link when the set gets uploaded.

 

[Ridel]

It's called a Rising Zee Toss. I the downward one good for an approach mixup, if the waddle is already out, that is. You can actually z toss a waddle at an upward angle and waddle dash straight into it in the same jump.

Yo L Pag I was just wondering how you got the .gifs to appear like this? I was planning on making an Olimar guide for utilizing Pikmin and Whistle shenanigans, and this would be a good way to present certain tech. Sorry if it's off topic but I'd rather not be in the dark when doing this.

 

[L Pag]

Yo L Pag I was just wondering how you got the .gifs to appear like this? I was planning on making an Olimar guide for utilizing Pikmin and Whistle shenanigans, and this would be a good way to present certain tech. Sorry if it's off topic but I'd rather not be in the dark when doing this.

Idk why but it's been giving me a bit of trouble recently. Anyway, as for making the gifs:

What I normally do tho is record the tech in dolphin using OBS (I do this in special brawl, camera set to fixed, and infinite time), ten I used to use a random mp4 to gif conversion website. but more recently I've been using this guide to make them higher quality. Then I just upload them to gfycat.

To make the gifs appear like they do, make a spoiler tag by typing "spoiler" in brackets before the are where you want to put the gif. To add the gif in, go to "add image" on smashbaords, then post the gif link from gfycat (make sure you're linking it as a gif and not a gfycat). Finally, type whatever caption you want under the gif, then close the spoiler with "/spoiler" (again, in brackets). Sorry if I mentioned some obvious stuff, the question was kinda vague :/

Anyway, hope it helped

 

[Ridel]

Idk why but it's been giving me a bit of trouble recently. Anyway, as for making the gifs:

What I normally do tho is record the tech in dolphin using OBS (I do this in special brawl, camera set to fixed, and infinite time), ten I used to use a random mp4 to gif conversion website. but more recently I've been using this guide to make them higher quality. Then I just upload them to gfycat.

To make the gifs appear like they do, make a spoiler tag by typing "spoiler" in brackets before the are where you want to put the gif. To add the gif in, go to "add image" on smashbaords, then post the gif link from gfycat (make sure you're linking it as a gif and not a gfycat). Finally, type whatever caption you want under the gif, then close the spoiler with "/spoiler" (again, in brackets). Sorry if I mentioned some obvious stuff, the question was kinda vague :/

Anyway, hope it helped

Tanks!