WA Power Rankings: August 2014 Update

[Big Pookie]

damn ebay poppin off.

Mike/Ben10/Johnny5/GIMB/"i hope ur ready for 8 minute matches"/aka the lord of JV5s for number 1 on PR

and me and chris for biggest frauds in WA

 

[pandacheck]

One GC warrants Oreo to be dropped lower than EBay? Is our PR based off of skill or placings because placings can be sporadic as someone could beat someone 2 gc's straight then lose to them the next 4

If that's the case then **** the PR ****s weak

 

[halfzy]

Yea PR is lame in that aspect. I can garrenteed beat bobzilla lol. That was a fluke. That's like how terry beat watufo this GC, flukes happen.

This is why we need PR sets to call peeps out and prove ur skill. Having one bracket a month has too many variables involved to go off of.

PR is sorta a joke til we get more tourneys going. Top 4 is legit tho

 

[OutTheCuts]

One GC warrants Oreo to be dropped lower than EBay? Is our PR based off of skill or placings because placings can be sporadic as someone could beat someone 2 gc's straight then lose to them the next 4

If that's the case then **** the PR ****s weak

The current system is based off of results over the last 3 months. Specifically who you won/lost to rather than overall placement to reduce the effect of getting a bad/good bracket. Players must attend at least 2 tournaments in a period to be considered. Previous PR standings are also given minor consideration.

I agree that some things should be done to our PR system to the tune of there being more tournaments (within the same time period) or a more defined PR set system put in place. I think it would be unfair to change the system right now though at the end of a period because you don't like the way the results shook out. We all knew how this system worked 3 months ago and didn't take steps to change it. It's better to fix the system in a new period than extend an old one once the results are in. There are people expecting a clean slate and deserve to not have the system changed from underneath them.

4 tournaments warrant putting Ebay over Oreo. During those tournaments he beat The Prime twice along with Vino (who beat Alien this month), Cabbage (who beat Iceman at Lynden), and nDie (previously #10). I think that's pretty impressive. Aside from that his only notable loss is to Mike Lau, who I put at 10. Not losing to PR contenders or randoms is a big deal in 4 tournaments as both Oreo and I have losses on our record from those.

As for the inevitable bird comparison. I don't know what to tell you here. I wish we'd gotten to play in tournament, but sometimes that doesn't happen. I'm not even trying to say I'm better than you, but my results for the period are, and I think that's what this should be based on. Both of us have a win against Alien, but I also beat Big D and Mike Lau. I've got losses to Banana and Daigo, but that's not worse than Bobzilla and Jafar. I also beat the randoms who beat you and attended more tournaments where random losses could have happened. It's silly to think that all of that plus being 1 below you on the current PR doesn't justify a switch.

 

[nDie]

I like eBays with mike lau at 10 as well. As far as the bird battle goes though, I think Neil did have a stronger period (not by much though, I wouldn't consider anything past your first 3 wins notable, nor past Oreo beating Alien("notable wins" is too vague for this system, unless we had a list of "notable players" which would require a whole new type of PR)), but I also think that you guys are diminishing the worth of previous rankings too much, and placing too much emphasis on this 3 month period only, especially since Trent has been up there for years, way longer than Neils first PR. It's still hella close either way, you guys should just PR set for it honestly, like tomorrow.

Also I really think we need to up the period length though, more data would make this a lot easier and more accurate, at least until we get more tournaments going. I think a Winter / Spring / Summer / Fall PR would be dope. Neils point of waiting until after this period is super valid though, but I really thing that it needs to be discussed as soon as we finish this list.

Also I think I earned a spot on that fraud list as well Blake.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

damn, missed this gameclucks, as usual -_- well, now I actually planned ahead of time, so next time I will actually be there.

 

[halfzy]

taking account of the past 3 months is the system we have been going off of but we also take into account the past records to some degree. peeps that have been on pr longer dont get chunked down for one "bad" period.

But I also believe the data we have is so skewed atm because we still lack the proper PR power we used to. With more peeps in the one tourney (GC), the PR peeps hardly get to face each other. Ive been to 2 gcs this period and the only pr guys i faced were iceman and alien. The lack of PR sets happening also skews the data. we used to have PR head-to-head sets every month.

Its just hard to agree on a list with such lil data this period. ebay did pop off tho lol. I think nothing else really happened besides that tho.

 

[OutTheCuts]

I like eBays with mike lau at 10 as well. As far as the bird battle goes though, I think Neil did have a stronger period (not by much though, I wouldn't consider anything past your first 3 wins notable, nor past Oreo beating Alien("notable wins" is too vague for this system, unless we had a list of "notable players" which would require a whole new type of PR)), but I also think that you guys are diminishing the worth of previous rankings too much, and placing too much emphasis on this 3 month period only, especially since Trent has been up there for years, way longer than Neils first PR. It's still hella close either way, you guys should just PR set for it honestly, like tomorrow.

Also I really think we need to up the period length though, more data would make this a lot easier and more accurate, at least until we get more tournaments going. I think a Winter / Spring / Summer / Fall PR would be dope. Neils point of waiting until after this period is super valid though, but I really thing that it needs to be discussed as soon as we finish this list.

Also I think I earned a spot on that fraud list as well Blake.

I think playing for it sets a pretty bad standard. Then anyone who has been on for a while will feel like they're entitled to play for it. What happens when one of the players in question is from EWA or someone's busy for a while after GC? Do we just wait another month for the grudge matches to be settled? We have to draw the line on results somewhere and we decided to do it at 3 months.

I do give credit to Trent for being on the PR for a while (1.5 years), but I think you're overvaluing it. Being there before should offer some allowance to random brackets and losses, but not to this extent. At most It should protect you from a big swing of people coming on and give you the nod in the case of a tie. This isn't what a tie looks like. What are the requirements for someone to move up on the PR over someone who's been there for longer? If you have a bad period and the person directly below you has a good one, shouldn't they move above you?

 

[nDie]

I think playing for it sets a pretty bad standard. Then anyone who has been on for a while will feel like they're entitled to play for it. What happens when one of the players in question is from EWA or someone's busy for a while after GC? Do we just wait another month for the grudge matches to be settled? We have to draw the line on results somewhere and we decided to do it at 3 months.

I do give credit to Trent for being on the PR for a while (1.5 years), but I think you're overvaluing it. Being there before should offer some allowance to random brackets and losses, but not to this extent. At most It should protect you from big swing of people coming on and give you the nod in the case of a tie. This isn't what a tie looks like. What are the requirements for someone to move up on the PR over someone who's been there for longer? If you have a bad period and the person directly below you has a good one, shouldn't they move above you?

I never suggested it should be a standard, relax dude. Obviously it's not even an option in most cases but it wouldn't be that hard for you guys to play, it was just a thought -_-

Ebay (Attendance 3)
Wins: ThePrime x2
Losses: Mike Lau

ThePrime (Attendance 3)
Wins: Iceman, Banana
Ties: Mike Lau (1-1)
Losses: Foos, eBay (x2)

OutTheCutz (Attendance 4)
Wins: Alien, Mike Lau,
Losses: Banana, Daigo

Oreo (Attendance 2)
Wins: Alien
Losses: Bobzilla, Jafar

Alien (Attendance 2)
Wins: Iceman,
Losses: Oreo, Neil D, Seibrik, Vino

Mike Lau (Attendance 4)
Wins: Sion*, eBay
Ties: ThePrime (1-1)
Losses: Neil D, Banana**

(Just because x beat y does not mean x is a notable win now (Bobzilla, jafar, vino, me, ect) as well as all the people that aren't even being considered for PR)

All other wins/losses I don't see as being relevant, and I wouldn't consider this a "good" period for you, and "bad" for Trent considering he only went to two events. It's not a tie, but it's really not impressive enough to warrant a switch in one short period in my opinion.
I'm done discussing this PR though, as there's not much to discuss with the lack of data, and defending our opinions is not worth the time. Side note though: I'm trying to get a ride to the Oregon tourney on Saturday though, if any of you guys are driving down.

 

[T0MMY]

Have you guys thought about using a Seasonal RR system? The one where you just make a giant RR bracket for the season and let it fill in with tournaments. It's strength is that it shows a wide spread of player talent with the best emerging after playing against everyone else and helps avoid any bias. But it would also help with "playing it out" with ties as was mentioned.
It was easy to use, and the WA players liked it when I was doing some regional testing on it back when I was more actively coming to GC's.

 

[Puffinator]

Here's my PR:
1.) SW
2.) Bladewise
3.) Vish
4.) Everyone else

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

I think Big D is a notable win/loss.

 

[Hawt Salsa]

I think Big D is a notable win/loss.

Big D is from canada and lives in canada

 

[Silent Wolf]

I agree with Ebay's list, and I would finish it off by putting Mike Lau as #10, making my list:

1. Silentwolf
2. Bladewise
3. Vish
4. Iceman
5. ThePrime
6. Ebay
7. Outthecutz
8. Oreo
9. Alien
10. Mike Lau

In regards to Outthecutz and Oreo's placings; I strongly agree with Neil's last post on the matter. Neil beating Jafar and Bobzilla with Trent losing to them pretty much says who should be above who in my opinion That, and also that Trent's only notable win this period was against alien, whom Neil also managed to beat so it kinda cancels it.

While Mike Lau does have a few losses that are worse than Banana's, his resume for wins is much more impressive; enough to put him above I'd say. Sion, Prime and Ebay are very impressive wins. Bobzilla is also notable in this case seeing as how he beat Trent this period.

My reasoning for the rest of the placements is analogous to Ebay's/Outthecutz' for certain parts. Let me know if you guys have any beef with this list or not.


On a side note. . Ebay proposed the idea of forming an official PR panel to discuss the rankings each update and also brought up the idea of updating the rankings very four months rather than every three. Thoughts?

 

[Silent Wolf]

Big D is from canada and lives in canada

Yes, but if he beats someone from WA and also loses to someone else from WA it says something about their relative skill levels.

 

[OutTheCuts]

On a side note. . Ebay proposed the idea of forming an official PR panel to discuss the rankings each update and also brought up the idea of updating the rankings very four months rather than every three. Thoughts?

I agree with both of these. 3 months has proven to be pretty short; that could be helped with more tournaments or a PR set system, but for now going to 4 is probably the best short term solution.

I think that a panel is a good idea because it would make process of forming the PR a lot simpler and will let us work on the PR set system. I think PR sets have been brought up a few times in the past month, but it's pretty impossible to do anything until there's a panel to agree on a rule set.

 

[Ebay]

I agree with Ebay's list, and I would finish it off by putting Mike Lau as #10, making my list:

1. Silentwolf
2. Bladewise
3. Vish
4. Iceman
5. ThePrime
6. Ebay
7. Outthecutz
8. Oreo
9. Alien
10. Mike Lau

In regards to Outthecutz and Oreo's placings; I strongly agree with Neil's last post on the matter. Neil beating Jafar and Bobzilla with Trent losing to them pretty much says who should be above who in my opinion That, and also that Trent's only notable win this period was against alien, whom Neil also managed to beat so it kinda cancels it.

While Mike Lau does have a few losses that are worse than Banana's, his resume for wins is much more impressive; enough to put him above I'd say. Sion, Prime and Ebay are very impressive wins. Bobzilla is also notable in this case seeing as how he beat Trent this period.

My reasoning for the rest of the placements is analogous to Ebay's/Outthecutz' for certain parts. Let me know if you guys have any beef with this list or not.


On a side note. . Ebay proposed the idea of forming an official PR panel to discuss the rankings each update and also brought up the idea of updating the rankings very four months rather than every three. Thoughts?

Yea I definitely feel like extending the period as well as selecting an official panel would help address all the issues we currently have.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I think the panel could just be me Neil and Jon and other people can voice their concerns as well. So does that list look okay to you guys then? Thanks for putting in the work and collecting the data btw

 

[Purpletuce]

Jafar is the best metric of skill.

 

[AlienAllen]

I agree with Ebay's list, and I would finish it off by putting Mike Lau as #10, making my list:

1. Silentwolf
2. Bladewise
3. Vish
4. Iceman
5. ThePrime
6. Ebay
7. Outthecutz
8. Oreo
9. Alien
10. Mike Lau

In regards to Outthecutz and Oreo's placings; I strongly agree with Neil's last post on the matter. Neil beating Jafar and Bobzilla with Trent losing to them pretty much says who should be above who in my opinion That, and also that Trent's only notable win this period was against alien, whom Neil also managed to beat so it kinda cancels it.

While Mike Lau does have a few losses that are worse than Banana's, his resume for wins is much more impressive; enough to put him above I'd say. Sion, Prime and Ebay are very impressive wins. Bobzilla is also notable in this case seeing as how he beat Trent this period.

My reasoning for the rest of the placements is analogous to Ebay's/Outthecutz' for certain parts. Let me know if you guys have any beef with this list or not.


On a side note. . Ebay proposed the idea of forming an official PR panel to discuss the rankings each update and also brought up the idea of updating the rankings very four months rather than every three. Thoughts?

This is definitely the most accurate list based on results. If you don't like it, get good and play better.

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

I can dig that list.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Would anyone else like to be a panelist? I dont want to be unfair about it and just finalize it like that

 

[Psycho_Bayleef]

I'd like to but idk if I'm qualified

 

[OutTheCuts]

I'm certainly up for it. I think some criteria should be put in place with regards to who ends up on the panel. Along with making sure the PR gets made, members should have some level of experience and the community needs to be able to trust the panel to be impartial. That being said, I think Teddy or Winston would be pretty good too, but I don't know if they'd want to do it.

 

[thatoneguy1]

with smash wii u being out is there going to be a separate power ranking for that as well?

 

[Silent Wolf]

I agree with Neil on that one. Ill see if I can get someone to make a dope pr image for us.

There will probably eventually be a smash 4 PR, but that will be made by different players in a different place.

 

[caLviN-1260]

Would anyone else like to be a panelist? I dont want to be unfair about it and just finalize it like that

It'd be good to have someone from the Bellingham area and someone from Vancouver, WA just for the sake of representing all our areas. EWA too, but I take it you already have someone on the panel from EWA

 

[thatoneguy1]

It'd be good to have someone from the Bellingham area and someone from Vancouver, WA just for the sake of representing all our areas. EWA too, but I take it you already have someone on the panel from EWA

wouldnt it make the most sense to have 2 people from each area?

 

[OutTheCuts]

I'm not against having someone from EWA or Bham on the panel but this shouldn't be about regional representation. I wouldn't want a panel composed members trying to say that people from their area should be higher on the PR when the results don't justify it (as many posts in this thread and other PR threads do). The panel should be composed of people who are impartial and care enough about the PR to make sure it gets made properly. Simply being from a region isn't a good reason for someone's opinion to be given extra value as it would be in this case.

I suggested Winston and Bladewise because they're probably best we can find with regards to being impartial and having enough game knowledge to be effective. Winston isn't on the PR (by choice) and I think everyone would trust Teddy not to play favorites. I don't really know anyone else who I'd trust with getting the PR done fairly regardless of region, otherwise I would have suggested them as well.

 

[Ganobrator]

Ebay proposed the idea of forming an official PR panel to discuss the rankings each update and also brought up the idea of updating the rankings very four months rather than every three. Thoughts?

personally i like this idea a lot. the longer period will help solidify the notable wins and losses better imo, and having an actual panel would probably make the process of creating a pr smoother

 

[MudkipUniverse]

GC is show up and enter, right?

And i'd be part of the panel if I actually show up in december gameclucks

 

[Ganobrator]

GC is show up and enter, right?

And i'd be part of the panel if I actually show up in december gameclucks

december gameclucks is PM singles and doubles this month, there's an oregon tournament on the same day and we don't want to interfere.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

december gameclucks is PM singles and doubles this month, there's an oregon tournament on the same day and we don't want to interfere.

are you telling me there is no melee singles?

because then i might not go to gc

 

[caLviN-1260]

are you telling me there is no melee singles?

because then i might not go to gc

There is no Melee singles at Gameclucks this month.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

*deleted this post, it was just me raging

I also raged in my contact letter to gameclucks, sorry for that

 

[Ganobrator]

there are little-to-no actual recognizable PM players in the area

well that's not true.. seibrik, just, and otto are all good mang

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I'm sorry, I just raged because I wanted to enter melee badly.

I actually LOVE Project m.

At GC, I want to show off my new mewtwo tech: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-technique-the-pokédash.380850/

 

[OwenX]

Literally made an account to join the discussion.

For what it's worth, I think that the PR panel is the smoothest, most systematic way of creating the PR. However I think that it has to be communicated effectively to everyone in order to make it work. This would prevent randos in the WA FB from disputing placings without having taken part in the discussion.

Most people in Washington, I'm guessing, don't know that the PR is based on the results of the period with consideration given to previous placings. Rather, people try to think about it in terms of arbitrary judgments of actual skill, which lead to disputes.

Even though Neil and Jon are both Seattle players, their dedication to compiling notable results for each period lets me personally believe that they're not easily affected by regional bias. I think that the PR panel could be expanded if others are willing to have the same level of relevant match knowledge and lack of regional bias.

In short, I hope everyone knows how the PR works, who's on the PR panel and why they are on the PR panel.

 

[Puffinator]

Mudkip Universe are you a real person?

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Mudkip Universe are you a real person?

yes, My handle is "Pokepen." no idea why my Smashboards username is what it is.

I'm going to GC every month, you'll know when you've found me when you find the one Kid in the venue who plays falco