Vs. Sheik

[MarioMeteor]

Yo yo, what's good. I'm new here, if you can't tell, but I've been watching this site for a while now. All right, now that that's said and done, onto the meat of this. Sheik. I've fought maybe about 4-5 matches against her and lost every one of em. Those needles are so damn hard to see and those Grenades are control up the ass. So when I do manage to get up close and personal, she either runs away like a little ***** or knocks me out the air like a fly. After a few rounds of that, I find myself with a ****load of damage. I'd probably go insane if it weren't for that Bouncing Fish nerf. The worst part? All her moves are so damn SAFE. I can't punish her for ****. Even with my man Mario's fastest moves. So I come to you, Marioers, How do I beat this Egyptian-looking sumbitch?

 

[A2ZOMG]

You outplay her. That's how you beat her.

There aren't a lot of tricks to beating Sheik. You gotta be willing to play safe and look for opportunities to punish and combo her. Also avoid jumping against her in neutral. She can punish it really easily.

Also if she camps near the edge, remember that it's useful to use FLUDD to push people to the ledge.

 

[MarioMeteor]

You outplay her. That's how you beat her.

There aren't a lot of tricks to beating Sheik. You gotta be willing to play safe and look for opportunities to punish and combo her. Also avoid jumping against her in neutral. She can punish it really easily.

Also if she camps near the edge, remember that it's useful to use FLUDD to push people to the ledge.

Outplay her. Wonderful advice. I feel enlightened now. And I'm throwing out as many combos as my mind can think of, but she (he?) always finds a way around em and manages to combo ME to kingdom come. And about the not jumping part, how do you suppose I find my way around that? SHed Fireballs are my main way to approach. And that usually ends with a needle stuck in me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Just walk and shield needles (or crouch under them if you really want to, I believe you can do that), get in midrange somehow, and try your best to anticipate whether she tries to poke with tilts, or run up with DA/grab. Really, as I said, there aren't real tricks to beating Sheik. You have to play a better defensive game than her and bait her into making commitments that you can punish.

It's not a good matchup for Mario, as you might already be aware.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Just walk and shield needles (or crouch under them if you really want to, I believe you can do that), get in midrange somehow, and try your best to anticipate whether she tries to poke with tilts, or run up with DA/grab. Really, as I said, there aren't real tricks to beating Sheik. You have to play a better defensive game than her and bait her into making commitments that you can punish.

It's not a good matchup for Mario, as you might already be aware.

Trust me, I know it too well. And you walked right into my problem. Other than DAir, what move does she have that I can punish? Doesn't help that she's light as all hell, so comboing her is dead and gone. I know Burst Grenade is asking for a punch if she misses that.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Her physics iirc are actually very good for U-tilt and U-air juggles. But I don't have the game on me right now to test things for you, so you would know better at this point.

Sometimes you need to be not afraid to just F-smash here and there if you're not going to be killed for it, because you can fundamentally use it to bait some approaches due to its leanback, and it both does great damage and knockback. Sometimes you gotta be quick and turn around to B-air/U-smash oos. And then there's the times where running in with a random U-air or U-smash might be just the thing you need to stuff her SHF-air.

Don't forget to use your own Jab and tilts, even if they're not as impressive as Sheik's. D-tilt in particular I would especially recommend keeping handy against Sheik in footsies, because its range and setup potential are important, since she's not easy for Mario to edgeguard in most situations.

As I said though...really. It just depends on you being able to out-think her and better predict what she's going to do. Her tools in neutral are noticeably superior, and your best bet at winning is staying alive and making good reads.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Ya don't say... Well I'm definitely gonna keep all that in mind. I've noticed that baiting her to use projectiles works cause after a while, she uses Burst Grenade, and that move is punishable like a mother. I noticed how good his down tilt is, but for whatever reason, I always mess over it in favor of his f-tilt angled down. Call me stupid. That back air is gift from God though. Neutral air too, now that I think about it. Shuts down approaches, trades off with moves, and nice and strong, too. I'll test those combos myself. Appreciate the offer, though.

 

[Maruigi]

Depending on how you're trying to kill her I'd say Shiek really removes the option to get good meteor smashes off and feels kind of hard to gimp. So you're left with U-Smash and F-Smash for kill options, early %'s is really decided on who lands the first hit or who can recover from the downtime in strings. It's useful to note that N-air can combo into grab from like 0-15%-ish range I think. Not sure when that exactly stops comboing either.

Once Mario starts juggling it's hard to get him off of you, try to abuse your d-air if you're approaching from the side. I haven't found too many people who can get through the multi-hit and how fast it comes out. Approach is really about using your spot dodge roll dodge and RAR to get close. I think you'll suffer from having a hard time finishing her off but Shiek also has issues finishing people off till rage mode unless she gets a bouncing fish off.

This is just off theory, I'm going to play this match up with a few friends later and see if I can find some windows that you can punish Shiek on. Just remember if your opponent tends to overcharge their smash attacks your cape is really good at forcing them to have a real strict timing on when they land their hits on the ground. Cape means a lot less in the air unless they're off stage and I don't think Shiek has too many laggy moves.

Do not wait to skid to shield ever, either spam dash into shield or shield while you're running instead of letting yourself skid. That might be a reason you're having trouble approaching, but if you get any footage people can pick apart what you're doing right and wrong.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Depending on how you're trying to kill her I'd say Shiek really removes the option to get good meteor smashes off and feels kind of hard to gimp. So you're left with U-Smash and F-Smash for kill options, early %'s is really decided on who lands the first hit or who can recover from the downtime in strings. It's useful to note that N-air can combo into grab from like 0-15%-ish range I think. Not sure when that exactly stops comboing either.

Once Mario starts juggling it's hard to get him off of you, try to abuse your d-air if you're approaching from the side. I haven't found too many people who can get through the multi-hit and how fast it comes out. Approach is really about using your spot dodge roll dodge and RAR to get close. I think you'll suffer from having a hard time finishing her off but Shiek also has issues finishing people off till rage mode unless she gets a bouncing fish off.

This is just off theory, I'm going to play this match up with a few friends later and see if I can find some windows that you can punish Shiek on. Just remember if your opponent tends to overcharge their smash attacks your cape is really good at forcing them to have a real strict timing on when they land their hits on the ground. Cape means a lot less in the air unless they're off stage and I don't think Shiek has too many laggy moves.

Do not wait to skid to shield ever, either spam dash into shield or shield while you're running instead of letting yourself skid. That might be a reason you're having trouble approaching, but if you get any footage people can pick apart what you're doing right and wrong.

Now that you say gimp, can F.L.U.D.D. gimp Vanish? I don't think Cape can. And you're right about meteors, Sheik shuts those down like the po-po. I'm pretty sure late Nair never stops comboing. At least not till outrageous %. Same with SHed Fireballs, like I told @ A2ZOMG , those are my main way to approach, cause most likely you'll get no lag and can combo into Jab, F-tilt, N-Air, yadda yadda yadda. Usually when I do get in and shield something, she either knocks me right back before I can do anything or gets away. And quick FYI, Bouncing Fish no longer KO's, thank God. Don't help much though, cause she squirms right back if she hits a shield, so no punish.

 

[HeroMystic]

Now that you say gimp, can F.L.U.D.D. gimp Vanish?

If the Shiek player sucks.

You can cape vanish if you time it at the last second. They'll get reversed.

 

[MarioMeteor]

If the Shiek player sucks.

You can cape vanish if you time it at the last second. They'll get reversed.

If you Cape at the end they'll turn around. Their momentum won't change. Kinda defeats the purpose of a gimp.

 

[HeroMystic]

If you Cape at the end they'll turn around. Their momentum won't change. Kinda defeats the purpose of a gimp.

Well, didn't expect that to be changed from Brawl. Oh well.

If that's the case, then no Cape doesn't work, and FLUDD shouldn't gimp a Shiek player that knows how to avoid it.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Well, didn't expect that to be changed from Brawl. Oh well.

If that's the case, then no Cape doesn't work, and FLUDD shouldn't gimp a Shiek player that knows how to avoid it.

Well, fan-****ing-tastic, that's one less thing I can do. They keep every thing else from Brawl and take away something actually beneficial. Oh well, it is what it is. Any other tips, o wise mistress?

 

[HeroMystic]

Well, fan-****ing-tastic, that's one less thing I can do. They keep every thing else from Brawl and take away something actually beneficial. Oh well, it is what it is. Any other tips, o wise mistress?

Really, it's just an uphill battle for Mario. In my experience, dashing shield is good to approach with, and fireballs shut down their attempt to use Side-B (but not needles and bouncing fish).

If you can grab, then I believe D-throw > U-tilt > D-Tilt > Grab > D-Throw > U-tilt is a combo on Shiek at 0% from what I tested. I personally use D-throw > U-tilt > D-tilt >D-throw > U-tilt > Up-B. That should be enough go from 0% to 45%. The problem is getting the grab though.

The best advice I can give is to not force yourself to be offensive. Mario can actually juggle Shiek pretty well so getting damage in isn't difficult, it's getting the kill. U-Smash is your best bet, and I would avoid using F-Smash unless you make a hard read.

 

[BSP]

Another thing: even though Fsmash seems like the right option to beat her Ftilt spam, I've gotten hit every time I've tried it. It's dumb.

If you Cape at the end they'll turn around. Their momentum won't change. Kinda defeats the purpose of a gimp.

I'm assuming he meant the end of the part of Vanish before Sheik disappears. If you cape her then, controls get reversed and she most likely goes in the wrong direction.

If you're caping the reappearance of Vanish, you could've KO'd her with FLUDD.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Another thing: even though Fsmash seems like the right option to beat her Ftilt spam, I've gotten hit every time I've tried it. It's dumb.



I'm assuming he meant the end of the part of Vanish before Sheik disappears. If you cape her then, controls get reversed and she most likely goes in the wrong direction.

If you're caping the reappearance of Vanish, you could've KO'd her with FLUDD.

Well, I'll be damned, I never thought of putting the two together. **** me. And I've actually knocked her out of a F-tilt with down tilt.

Really, it's just an uphill battle for Mario. In my experience, dashing shield is good to approach with, and fireballs shut down their attempt to use Side-B (but not needles and bouncing fish).

If you can grab, then I believe D-throw > U-tilt > D-Tilt > Grab > D-Throw > U-tilt is a combo on Shiek at 0% from what I tested. I personally use D-throw > U-tilt > D-tilt >D-throw > U-tilt > Up-B. That should be enough go from 0% to 45%. The problem is getting the grab though.

The best advice I can give is to not force yourself to be offensive. Mario can actually juggle Shiek pretty well so getting damage in isn't difficult, it's getting the kill. U-Smash is your best bet, and I would avoid using F-Smash unless you make a hard read.

Really, it's just an uphill battle for Mario. In my experience, dashing shield is good to approach with, and fireballs shut down their attempt to use Side-B (but not needles and bouncing fish).

If you can grab, then I believe D-throw > U-tilt > D-Tilt > Grab > D-Throw > U-tilt is a combo on Shiek at 0% from what I tested. I personally use D-throw > U-tilt > D-tilt >D-throw > U-tilt > Up-B. That should be enough go from 0% to 45%. The problem is getting the grab though.

The best advice I can give is to not force yourself to be offensive. Mario can actually juggle Shiek pretty well so getting damage in isn't difficult, it's getting the kill. U-Smash is your best bet, and I would avoid using F-Smash unless you make a hard read.

Thank ya kindly. I sure as hell will be testing those. I've actually found that N-Air, of all things, can kill Sheik. Ain't that some ****? Near the edge, of course.

Edit: Ooooh, I ****ed that post up real bad, didn't I?