vs sheik, my observation

[MVPaintballer]

I went to a recent tournament with alot of sheik's.....At first I thought this was bad but meh I went blazing through them lol. It took me the whole day to realize what I was doing right and that was how to finally play marth correctly...

I learned 2 things
don't sidestep alot
Outside range = tipper Inside range = grab

I don't know but it seems as if versing a sheik is one of my best match-ups with marth now.


Does anybody feel the same?

 

[Bloodred]

the shieks you have to deal with are most likely the combo happy f tlit u tilt f air shieks. I like to kill those, but i'm stuck with the needle storm jump in the air and come down with needles auto cancle them into something or grab me shieks. i hate to fight those because they try to rack up damage with needles and keep away tactics ya know. i hate shiek on a whole so a hope this thread helps me deal with them better ya know.

 

[MVPaintballer]

Yea I had to fight alot of those =p. But I found out if you give them no room to breathe with well spaced fsmash and fairs they really can't do much

 

[Bloodred]

i try but it's always b-wavedash and more uncharged needles after i try f-smash or air and it doesn't help that they can auto cancel the needle ya know. to keep the press on them is always a good idea but they'll find some way to worm out and star over ya know

 

[Rune]

i try but it's always b-wavedash and more uncharged needles after i try f-smash or air and it doesn't help that they can auto cancel the needle ya know. to keep the press on them is always a good idea but they'll find some way to worm out and star over ya know

And then you find some new ways of worming them back in. How are you giving Sheik time to throw needles anyway? She should be in constant danger of getting slashed.
Another thing, Sheik can only throw at ground level, just jump.

 

[Bloodred]

And then you find some new ways of worming them back in. How are you giving Sheik time to throw needles anyway? She should be in constant danger of getting slashed.
Another thing, Sheik can only throw at ground level, just jump.

most of the time ground level ,but she would throw them in the air and fast fall ya know and start a combo of some sort. i try to space but they end up coming out on top ya know the needles. jumping seems like the best thing and most likely is but if the shiek is putting the press on you after your air attack or whatever you'll eat a f air from her and i hate those.

 

[Rune]

Needles thrown during a jump only hit a small spot on the ground quite near Sheik. This spot can't be your location, because if it were, Sheik shouldn't have time to jump without at least getting f-tilted in the face. Her only option to increase the needles range enough to outrange Marth's attacks, is by double jumping.. you can see that one coming from miles away, just use your own second jump and fair her, or roll past the needles and up-tilt.

 

[Bloodred]

okay i'll keep that i mind next time ya know.............but it's not as not easy as hiting shiek when one wants ,she's a freaking ninja ya know.

 

[technomancer]

M2K and Azen deal with sheiks like this:
>Mindgame a little
>Short Hop
>Float backwards a little
>Fair
>**** Combo

 

[Bloodred]

**** combo? do you mean the ken combo, i can do it almost perfect but when is a good time to start a ken combo? at 25 or a little higher because when i start it some times they can teck away ya know, so like give some times or points when i should push for it ,thanx

 

[JBM falcon08]

techno meant just a combo overall that is the ****.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Bloodred, if you're asking for advice, you can't do it "almost perfect" : )

The ken combo is an f-air to d-air, and you're speaking of teching away? Do you know what you're taking about?

I've pulled off the ken combo against peach are ridculously low %s for example, despite your foe can make it back, it forces them to use their second jump and puts them in a bad situation, but don't go for the spike mindlessly.

 

[Rune]

I wish the pal version had that spike..

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Pal is so balanced...I wish I had the pal version lol..Shiek would be much easier but my spike would be gone and ganon's fair would be so weak...meh..

 

[Bloodred]

i thought the ken combo was made up of f airs until they are off the stage and then the f air to d air? the part i was talking 'bout was the f air over the stage ya know. does it matter if you hit with sweet spot at the begining or do you have to start with the sweetspot because i can do it from the sour spot but they have to be at higher damage so it's a bit harder ya know.

 

[-Kazman-]

Good observations lol, side stepping gets u *****.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Yeah, and they can't tech out, to tech, you have to hit the ground or the side of something.

Some people have different thoughts about the ken combo but most say its just f-air to d-air.

And You can ken combo from the sweet spot or sour spot, you just have to know how.

 

[Bloodred]

yes yes, now were getting somewere ya know. so what percent do they have to be in order to start at the sweetspot? sourspot? not exactly just a rough idea so i know when to push because the kc is a big part of my marth game ya know.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

The %s are FAR and wide. Heres the general idea of things. When sweetspotting the f-air (tipping it) your foe is popped up and you have to jump to gain enough height to be above your foe and d-air them. When sour spotting the f-air, you don't have to jump, you just move towards them and d-air..I've done it in one of my videos if you want to see it. You can either spike them at a rough angle so you can cancel your lag on the stage or you can save your second jump so when your d-air lag ends, you can use it then up-b to save that stock. Its not so much as a matter of % due to characters weight changing, its a matter of your position to them and IF you have your second jump. You can't generalize things like this by asking "When to do something" Thats why I said you were a beginner in the other thread when you said you weren't lol things like that take experience. And I'm sorry for the essay but reading it might do you some good. wtfbbq, you still reading? well if you need visual references to the sour spot, I've got it.

 

[MVPaintballer]

sheik wtf bbq move is bair dair lol

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Don't steal my uniqueness.

And it works okay.

 

[Bloodred]

i've just came from playing smash today and i've got to say beating shiek with marth is no easy task but all the stuff on this thread works so it's all good ya know!

 

[JBM falcon08]

Rock lee is by far the greatest naruto character.

and yes, sheik is fun to play against.

btw if any character on smash could be on naruto it'd be sheik.

i just got done watching like 60 episodes of naruto on cartoon network, i've never seen it before lol.

 

[Bloodred]

Rock lee is by far the greatest naruto character.

and yes, sheik is fun to play against.

btw if any character on smash could be on naruto it'd be sheik.

i just got done watching like 60 episodes of naruto on cartoon network, i've never seen it before lol.

u should start downloading them and when your done you can start watching naruto shinppuden ,rock lee is all grown up and more bada$$ than ever. i hate shiek so much ya know.

 

[Randizzle]

i like fighting sheiks.

dash dance a lot and use fairs like an ***. good stuff.

 

[Bloodred]

dash dance and take needles ummmmm meh. fairs are the shiz and i would leave home without 'em ya know.

 

[Randizzle]

it's about good spacing when you DD... be smart about them and you don't necessarily set yourself up for needles. dash dance grabs are good. really good.

 

[_the_sandman_]

What happens when one bad character like Marth enters a match with another bad character like Sheik?

You get a very BAD match!

 

[Bloodred]

sandman.....i think u should be with the pokemon trainer getting your b-moves downpack for brawl ya know...as for the dash dance grabs their not good their ggggggggggreat.....until u wiff and eat a f tilt f tilt u tilt and f air for for a lost life ya know so to cut all that crazyness out i just toned down my grabs to 20% i know i shouldn't but it's better to be safe in a marth match than to lose a stock ya know

 

[Knight-errant]

Bloodred, I'm laughing at how often you say, "ya know." Is that from where you live, or just you?

 

[sakuraZaKi]

lol i enjoy matches with good shieks, someone i can actually go head-to-head with my marth.

 

[undyinglight]

What happens when one bad character like Marth enters a match with another bad character like Sheik?

You get a very BAD match!

Sheik and Marth are both Outstanding characters. This is a tier list.

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

As you can see Marth and Sheik are both very high up and shouldn't be called bad characters.

 

[maximus omega]

Who called them bad chars lol they both have ups and downs but more ups then downs lol.

 

[Impact009]

Who called them bad chars lol they both have ups and downs but more ups then downs lol.

I'll reply to you with the following:

What happens when one bad character like Marth enters a match with another bad character like Sheik?

You get a very BAD match!

Granted it's probably a joke, coming from somebody who has 810 posts and has been registered since the days that Sheik was still top tier.

I'm assuming your post wasn't serious either, considering you posted immediately after somebody that quoted the same person as me.