Villager will get the Diddy Kong bandwagon

[AnchorTea]

You don't say...

Well this doesn't apply for all characters believe or not.

Villager already has a reputation behind him, so this makes sense. If a Duck Hunter wins a major tourney, Duck Hunt will get more respect, but will not try to be mastered by many due to his awkward moveset and kill potential.

 

[TR33]

It's actually not extremely fast. If a captain falcon is in the middle of the stage, and you start planting your sapling from one of the edges, I bet he could run and grab you before you plant it.

That aside, it makes the axe and tree not kill at all, basically, taking away Villager's kill potential. He HAS other ways to kill, but it IS a tradeoff

Whereas EBT is just a buff.

I mean sure falcon can still punish in that situation but does that really make the move any less powerful? It's cool if you disagree, but the reasons I've given I really think it's a move that'll be really unhealthy for the meta

 

[TR33]

It's actually not extremely fast. If a captain falcon is in the middle of the stage, and you start planting your sapling from one of the edges, I bet he could run and grab you before you plant it.

That aside, it makes the axe and tree not kill at all, basically, taking away Villager's kill potential. He HAS other ways to kill, but it IS a tradeoff

Whereas EBT is just a buff.

I mean sure falcon can still punish in that situation but does that really make the move any less powerful? It's cool if you disagree, but the reasons I've given I really think it's a move that'll be really unhealthy for the meta

 

[Darklink401]

I mean sure falcon can still punish in that situation but does that really make the move any less powerful? It's cool if you disagree, but the reasons I've given I really think it's a move that'll be really unhealthy for the meta

Now here's the thing

Yes, timber counter is great. Trip sapling is super frustrating, and it makes a lot of bad MUs much easier.

BUT

It's a trade-off, there's no denying that. The tree and the axe are both potent killing weapons, normally. Now they can't be used for that.
There ARE certain times where I'd prefer regular timber, because regular timber IS still a great move. In no way does trip sapling damage the meta, thats like saying diddy's banana was unhealthy for the meta. Yes, it lasts longer, and it can trip multiple times, but you HAVE to keep it in one spot. Its not a guaranteed followup because you're not sure when your opponent will fall for it. It's got a WHOLE different reason for being there, than Diddy's banana.

My only point was, that trip sapling is GREAT, BUT there is a trade-off, whereas there's no real trade-off between regular balloon trip and EBT.

 

[TR33]

Now here's the thing

Yes, timber counter is great. Trip sapling is super frustrating, and it makes a lot of bad MUs much easier.

BUT

It's a trade-off, there's no denying that. The tree and the axe are both potent killing weapons, normally. Now they can't be used for that.
There ARE certain times where I'd prefer regular timber, because regular timber IS still a great move. In no way does trip sapling damage the meta, thats like saying diddy's banana was unhealthy for the meta. Yes, it lasts longer, and it can trip multiple times, but you HAVE to keep it in one spot. Its not a guaranteed followup because you're not sure when your opponent will fall for it. It's got a WHOLE different reason for being there, than Diddy's banana.

My only point was, that trip sapling is GREAT, BUT there is a trade-off, whereas there's no real trade-off between regular balloon trip and EBT.

Perhaps, but the fact that it's uninteractable by nature is why I'm so inclined to disagree. I see your points though, and I really could be overestimating it. In the end there shouldn't be any bans this early on despite what people like me think, it's far too early in the customs meta and it doesn't prove to allow anything really dirty like infinite dimensional cape glitch did in brawl. Also sorry for double post :V not sure how to delete

 

[Darklink401]

Perhaps, but the fact that it's uninteractable by nature is why I'm so inclined to disagree. I see your points though, and I really could be overestimating it. In the end there shouldn't be any bans this early on despite what people like me think, it's far too early in the customs meta and it doesn't prove to allow anything really dirty like infinite dimensional cape glitch did in brawl. Also sorry for double post :V not sure how to delete

You can't interact with it yes, but keep in mind that that's partly the reason Diddy's banana is great, cuz he can interact with it, and get grab or smash combos.
You can plant it on the middle of the stage and drag your opponent there, but you still gotta hope that he lands there. Good players CAN avoid it, it just provides stage control with its presence.

It's not almighty. It's great, but definitely not broken.

 

[Mtn64]

Perhaps, but the fact that it's uninteractable by nature is why I'm so inclined to disagree. I see your points though, and I really could be overestimating it. In the end there shouldn't be any bans this early on despite what people like me think, it's far too early in the customs meta and it doesn't prove to allow anything really dirty like infinite dimensional cape glitch did in brawl. Also sorry for double post :V not sure how to delete

Don't doubt regular timber.
Regular timber is a very good move in what it offers, its just that trip sapling helps more MUs.
Instant shield breaks, (frame6?) aerial and ground pivotable kill move, lasting hitbox (sprout), and edge guarding.
Part of the reason I hate playing with counter sapling is because it makes me feel naked. Axe OoS / air dodge reads offstage are a good amount of my kills and losing it is bleh.
The only MU I'd take it in would be sonic, though I'm sure someone who uses it well would find better uses for it than regular.
That said, as previously mentioned, there is literally no point in not having EBT.
The only point in not having it would be fighting characters like Mario with flood/cape.
Mario, doc, greninja, enemy villy, ermm.. That's it?

 

[Darklink401]

Don't doubt regular timber.
Regular timber is a very good move in what it offers, its just that trip sapling helps more MUs.
Instant shield breaks, (frame6?) aerial and ground pivotable kill move, lasting hitbox (sprout), and edge guarding.
Part of the reason I hate playing with counter sapling is because it makes me feel naked. Axe OoS / air dodge reads offstage are a good amount of my kills and losing it is bleh.
The only MU I'd take it in would be sonic, though I'm sure someone who uses it well would find better uses for it than regular.
That said, as previously mentioned, there is literally no point in not having EBT.
The only point in not having it would be fighting characters like Mario with flood/cape.
Mario, doc, greninja, enemy villy, ermm.. That's it?

There's no point in not having EBT XP

Also yeah, it's true, counter timber is something to be used for specific MUs, that just make those MUs much more bearable. It's just as good as EBT under the right conditions, but because regular timber is so damn good, both are equally viable in most situations =P

 

[AlphaAustin]

I really didn't think villager with customs was that crazy. I mean the balloons were really good for getting back on the stage and stalling but other than that it looked like you have to play in a slow awful playstyle to make use of counter-tree and what not. Normal villager is just as good as custom unless you play really slow and defensively.

 

[Darklink401]

I really didn't think villager with customs was that crazy. I mean the balloons were really good for getting back on the stage and stalling but other than that it looked like you have to play in a slow awful playstyle to make use of counter-tree and what not. Normal villager is just as good as custom unless you play really slow and defensively.

Campy, you mean

Which, in tournaments, would be highly effective due to the time-out feature.

 

[Mtn64]

I really didn't think villager with customs was that crazy. I mean the balloons were really good for getting back on the stage and stalling but other than that it looked like you have to play in a slow awful playstyle to make use of counter-tree and what not. Normal villager is just as good as custom unless you play really slow and defensively.

EBT is good no matter what, offensive, defensive. Not only is it an added projectile, it also protects you from wall spikes and can gimp.
Literally, if they get too close just detonate a balloon or two.

 

[Darklink401]

EBT is good no matter what, offensive, defensive. Not only is it an added projectile, it also protects you from wall spikes and can gimp.
Literally, if they get too close just detonate a balloon or two.

What's amazing is, even detonating both balloons is completely safe if they're midair, because it more than likely will blow up in their face (due to the balloons exploding so fast) and the balloons have such knockback, that even if you're put into a helpless state, you still land safely <3

 

[Makai Wars]

I feel like this isn't going to happen; everyone saw what ADHD did with customs Villager and most people were pissed off about it, I doubt people are gonna flock to something that gets such negative press from the community, and the people who DO will just end up getting beat because they probably won't know how to use Villager past planking on the ledge with the balloons, they'll get wiped out like the hoard of srcub Diddys did at APEX

His customs are good but he still has flaws and counters and things that Diddy doesn't have, every character has their advantages and good points (save for Charizard) which is why people main them in the first place, but saying Villager will get Diddy treatment because of EBT is a big overstatement tbh

 

[Darklink401]

I feel like this isn't going to happen; everyone saw what ADHD did with customs Villager and most people were pissed off about it, I doubt people are gonna flock to something that gets such negative press from the community, and the people who DO will just end up getting beat because they probably won't know how to use Villager past planking on the ledge with the balloons, they'll get wiped out like the hoard of srcub Diddys did at APEX

His customs are good but he still has flaws and counters and things that Diddy doesn't have, every character has their advantages and good points (save for Charizard) which is why people main them in the first place, but saying Villager will get Diddy treatment because of EBT is a big overstatement tbh

Meta Knight says hi.

 

[ThatAintFalcon]

Haha I actually do better with non-custom Villager. I guess I'm more used to it and I like actually being able to kill with the axe and the tree. I play a bit aggressive and having to camp near the ledge doesn't really appeal to me. Villager is definitely very powerful but you need to know how to set up for kills and edge guarding, otherwise your opponent will be living past 150%