Video Game Mafia 2 - End of Line

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

100% willing to go back to TK if people are into that

I'm not interested in lynching the mod but I'd do it if there was no real good option outside of that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh scratch that.

I can dig this then.

Vote: Thirdkoopa

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Hey Red Ryu! Hopefully you haven’t left by the time this post comes out. I realized that I may have been over-exerting myself in the thread, so I was hoping I could dial back and re-assess the game, as my posts have been reactive more than pro-active? You get what I mean?


Anyway, I wanted to get your opinion on Raxxel. I saw a wagon forming on him and I can’t tell the difference between him as scum, or him being a defensive town. Do you think you could share some insight?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey Red Ryu! Hopefully you haven’t left by the time this post comes out. I realized that I may have been over-exerting myself in the thread, so I was hoping I could dial back and re-assess the game, as my posts have been reactive more than pro-active? You get what I mean?


Anyway, I wanted to get your opinion on Raxxel. I saw a wagon forming on him and I can’t tell the difference between him as scum, or him being a defensive town. Do you think you could share some insight?

I see you trying to interact with players and make a clear direction or try and figure out what is going on.

More reactive? Maybe but I don't think that is an issue when really I think your posts more than Raxxel's are trying to figure the game out or the set-up stuff. Even if I think that is fruitless right now I get where why others would want to dig into it.

What I get with you is that you seem to have a reason I can get and see a train of thought.

Raxxel has been on the sideline all game doing similar but he is an arm chair critic or commentator, rather than someone trying to find scum.

There is a difference between how the two of you play.

Anyways, forget raxxel.

We are lynching the mod asap, or I will make sure my wishes are fulfilled.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

What an incredibly safe statement.

UP and Raxxel are lynch bait.

KEvin and GLG...my eye's on you. Though I think GLG is scummier currently.

I actually don’t have a problem with GLG or Kevin. While I personally can’t tell a difference due to this being Raxxel’s second game, I think it is completely fair for them to look into everybody equally.

For example, let’s say Raxxel is town, but he does something that could be interpreted as a scum move. Is he exempt from being investigated? Not at all. Same with me; you said earlier that I was overthinking and over sharing, which makes me look scummy. While I would personally disagree, I’m not going to stop you all from being suspicious. It’s only fair to town that everybody be looked into, ignoring skill level. I’m not going to doubt the possibility of Raxxel being scum, but simply chalking it out as “too obvious of a move” could be ignoring a crucial read.

Raxxel has been on the sideline all game doing similar but he is an arm chair critic or commentator, rather than someone trying to find scum.

Hmm, I can see that. I kind of related to Raxxel and thought it could be a lack of confidence to make reads. I mean, to his point, making poor / evidence-less reads can be damning for scum, but the lack-thereof could make it seem like Rax is playing for self-conservation.

Is that what you mean? If so, I can see this being true.

 

[Z25]

I don’t oppose lynching TK. What do you all think will happen though? I hope we can get better clarifications on the game overall.


Actually perhaps lynching TK ends the day phase?

Vote: TK

 

[Raxxel]

Request Votecount

 

[KevinM]

Are we finally making the correct play? My heart soars

vote TK

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote: Thirdkoopa

Here's to hoping a TK lynch leads to TK posting deadlines and vote totals in vote counts.

 

[Dooplissity]

eh I think it's kind of dumb to lynch TK when we get so little out of a confirmed 3rd party flip

can we swing like any other wagon

 

[Raxxel]

We are lynching the mod asap, or I will make sure my wishes are fulfilled.

This is ominous to say the least and anti-town. Why would you make such a blatant threat to take matters into your own hands if the rest of us don't comply with your demands? It seems especially weird cause the majority of us are agreeing on a TK lynch already, but even if we weren't, would you really be willing to force that outcome against our will by whatever means you have?

eh I think it's kind of dumb to lynch TK when we get so little out of a confirmed 3rd party flip

can we swing like any other wagon

I get what you're saying, I myself have made this point before. If you really do see a worthy scum-read, I'd consider it. Ryu is my candidate right now if you were to solicit my input. The biggest sell for a TK lynch right now is that we're not going to risk lynching a town in such a small game. But I do agree with you on us losing out on a read, and there isn't a guarantee we start D2 any better than we started D1.

 

[Dooplissity]

honestly anyone but ryu or GLG is probably better to swing than TK - the fact that I'm the only one vocally opposing this means that (FMPoV) mafia are clearly behind lynching TK, so it unnerves me

 

[giraffelasergun]

I believe this is the current vote count:

Vote Count 1.10:
Utopian - ? (Thirdkoopa, )
Giraffelasergun - ? (Pythag, )
Thirdkoopa - ? (Kevin, ryu, z25, glg )
Maven (raxxel)
Raxxel - ? (, doop, )
Nabe (XiVii)
Undecided - ? (Maven, Utopian)

I might have missed an unvote somewhere. I didn't include the mystery vote because I don't know where it's at, and I including Xivii's nabe vote to show intent, TK hasn't posted since he made that post so I don't know where the votes are.

Without knowing the rules for lynching n this game I want to make sure we have six votes on someone to be safe. My top three are Raxxel, Maven and TK for a lynch, but could be convinced for most other slots. I do think it's important we at least get a lynch in today.

 

[Z25]

honestly anyone but ryu or GLG is probably better to swing than TK - the fact that I'm the only one vocally opposing this means that (FMPoV) mafia are clearly behind lynching TK, so it unnerves me

I get your concern but I have some questions.

For one, how do you explain the almost week long day one?

With TK urging us to vote and saying the deadline was soon.

How do soon translate to a week the ?

Not to mention the straight up indie statement by TK. That feels like a deliberate hint that we should lynch them because if TK has a goal to survive or do anything as a player In this, why would they tell us they are a role that should always be lynched in a mafia game?

If the TK lynch isn’t something we should, then Why do you think they exist and who would be scum pushing this?

I fully agree that TK needs to be lynched at some point t,

But if we aren’t getting the phase to end, then I maintain that there has to be a reason for that.

And at this point it really seems like TK wants us to lynch them because TK is the only person preventing the game from moving forward. At least looking back at their actions that’s how I see it and I honestly think it’s a pretty decent shot we should take to see what happens.

I really can’t see this game progressing without TK being lynched, by I’m always open to hear more.

Sure it may not give us player info, but it could give us big game info and possibly help us move forward with the game which I’ll say is worth it

 

[Dooplissity]

The game's not moving forward because we're not ****ing lynching anyone. ******* games having long phases is pretty normal. I have absolutely no idea why you've linked this to the mod but it's not based in reality at all. Of course the phase isn't ending when we haven't ever gotten a majority on someone.

TK hasn't said anything relevant, Theo is the one saying that, and again, he's an unreliable narrator and you can't trust him. I'd much rather deal with him at Night if we have roles that can do that, or have him win and exit the game so we don't ever have to waste a lynch.

Scum would be pushing this because A) they don't know what he does either, and B) because it's a lynch that isn't on Scum and a lynch that doesn't help us find Scum.

 

[Z25]

The game's not moving forward because we're not ****ing lynching anyone. ******* games having long phases is pretty normal. I have absolutely no idea why you've linked this to the mod but it's not based in reality at all. Of course the phase isn't ending when we haven't ever gotten a majority on someone.

TK hasn't said anything relevant, Theo is the one saying that, and again, he's an unreliable narrator and you can't trust him. I'd much rather deal with him at Night if we have roles that can do that, or have him win and exit the game so we don't ever have to waste a lynch.

Scum would be pushing this because A) they don't know what he does either, and B) because it's a lynch that isn't on Scum and a lynch that doesn't help us find Scum.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t their a majority for Tom at one point? We had like 4 or 5 votes on him right?

And I have never had a game here where the day phase lasted more Then 48 hours. There no usually how the people here run games.

Also to be fair if Theo is such a wild card then there’s no guarantee he’s not a problem to town either. He literally said he’s a third party. Those should always get vote priority. We have no clue what he can and can’t do, and that’s a problem for everyone. The games point is to not be like other games anyway so why would it follow a Norma structure like you expect? Theo blocking out the vote count isn’t something I’d count out.


But if others with more experience in this setup have a better understanding on mechanics then I say we discuss them more, but I don’t know who is that familiar here with games like this.

 

[Xivii]

Doop, if you're adamant about not lynching Theo, addressing the points I made in #396 would be a good start.

 

[Dooplissity]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t their a majority for Tom at one point? We had like 4 or 5 votes on him right?

And I have never had a game here where the day phase lasted more Then 48 hours. There no usually how the people here run games.

Also to be fair if Theo is such a wild card then there’s no guarantee he’s not a problem to town either. He literally said he’s a third party. Those should always get vote priority. We have no clue what he can and can’t do, and that’s a problem for everyone. The games point is to not be like other games anyway so why would it follow a Norma structure like you expect? Theo blocking out the vote count isn’t something I’d count out.


But if others with more experience in this setup have a better understanding on mechanics then I say we discuss them more, but I don’t know who is that familiar here with games like this.

It's probably me who has the most experience with b games.

We have 10 players + theo, so I'd wager majority is 6.

The bolded is precisely why lynching him isn't beneficial. Specifically, for everyone. He's just as likely to mess with the Scum as he is us.

You're correct I can't prove that Theo isn't the only lynchable target, but you've essentially created a flying spaghetti monster. We have no reason to believe that's true either.

 

[Dooplissity]

Vote: Nabe

There's no discernible pattern regarding the '?' so it's likely the double vote ability of a player. I doubt it's the case, but there's also some possibility it's an invisible player. Nabe, Strongbad, and Werekill all expressed interest in the game but didn't officially join. I want to test if one of them can appear in the vote count.

As for who to lynch today, I'd like for either Theo or Ruy. We have to lynch Theo at some point and I'd rather it be when we have some leeway than during crunch time. The longer he is in the game, the more problematic he becomes because each active individual has more influence over the game as it goes on. There are two reasons for this: First, role actions are more efficacious as player count decreases, mainly because targetability becomes more precise. The most salient example is kills (vig, nk). As the game goes on, the killer is able to more precisely hit someone that would be beneficial to them. Additionally the fewer players there are, the more influence a kill has over a game. It's dangerous to keep Theo around until later in the game because not only may he have is own abilities, but we will have to choose between lynching him and another player, guaranteeing that at least one scum player (Theo or other) survives to use an action. Secondly, individual voting power also increases as player count decreases. Since Theo's votes aren't necessarily town-aligned, it's risky to have him alive late game.

One last thing to say about Theo, I suspect from his "betting" comment that he is a marker or gambler who wins if he either guesses correctly who is alive at the end of the game or predicts a certain number of lynches correctly. From my experience with markers, if they win, their victory supersedes all other factions.

Regarding Ryu, I think that his reasoning for scumreading Z25 is poor. Z25's explanation was satisfying but Ruy is still pushing it. I'm also suspicious of the fact that Ryu has no interest in Theo. In past games, Ryu has been gung-ho about lynching indies as soon as possible. Theo flat out claimed 3P and Ruy hasn't reacted to it.

You make good points about why he's dangerous. I argue this is all the more reason to leave him alive. Scum are better organized than town, so adding entropy is probably not a bad thing. If he can potentially win off of a betting type mechanic, then he's a potential NK target for Scum, especially if they think they're in a good position to win the game. If we don't lynch him, he can rapidly become Scum's problem.

 

[Z25]

It's probably me who has the most experience with b games.

We have 10 players + theo, so I'd wager majority is 6.

The bolded is precisely why lynching him isn't beneficial. Specifically, for everyone. He's just as likely to mess with the Scum as he is us.

You're correct I can't prove that Theo isn't the only lynchable target, but you've essentially created a flying spaghetti monster. We have no reason to believe that's true either.

These are fair points, but do you think we really need majority to end a phase? That be a little surprising but it’s possible.

Also what’s your theory for why TK/Theo allowed both actions which was written in purple the confirmed mod truth according to them.

Those actions should go through but we haven’t seen any signs that this actually went anywhere, which is odd

 

[Xivii]

I'm in agreement that lynching Theo probably has nothing to do with ending the day phase. We haven't reached 6 yet. And we may need 7 if there's a hidden player. Also, it's common for Day phases to last 5-7 days. With that being said, we do need to make haste and lynch like yesterday. My current lynch pool outside of Theo is UP, pythag, and Z25 through PoE. Everyone else I've gotten town indications from of one sort or another, and I change my mind on Ryu. I'd still like to test the spectator vote, but if any of these four enter hammer range, I'll switch over.

Doop, I really don't think the disadvantages are as pressing to mafia as they are to town because we have fundamentally different goals. Because mafia's main aim is to survive, having an alternative threat to town is to their advantage. It's doubtful they'd waste a kill on him.

 

[Dooplissity]

These are fair points, but do you think we really need majority to end a phase? That be a little surprising but it’s possible.

Also what’s your theory for why TK/Theo allowed both actions which was written in purple the confirmed mod truth according to them.

Those actions should go through but we haven’t seen any signs that this actually went anywhere, which is odd

I mean, that's how lynches work? I genuinely don't get what's so puzzling about lynching to end the day?

I'm in agreement that lynching Theo probably has nothing to do with ending the day phase. We haven't reached 6 yet. And we may need 7 if there's a hidden player. Also, it's common for Day phases to last 5-7 days. With that being said, we do need to make haste and lynch like yesterday. My current lynch pool outside of Theo is UP, pythag, and Z25 through PoE. Everyone else I've gotten town indications from of one sort or another, and I change my mind on Ryu. I'd still like to test the spectator vote, but if any of these four enter hammer range, I'll switch over.

Doop, I really don't think the disadvantages are as pressing to mafia as they are to town because we have fundamentally different goals. Because mafia's main aim is to survive, having an alternative threat to town is to their advantage. It's doubtful they'd waste a kill on him.

Eh, we can go back and forth about it, but I'd argue that another threat generally works in favor of Town. This is true for SKs, multi

 

[Dooplissity]

ah ****ing enter button

..this is true for SKs, multiball, etc. Mafia have much more to lose for any given thing killing/exposing/whatevering them than Town does. If Theo winning makes the other factions lose, then he's a bigger threat to the winning faction. Better to leave him alive for a while in case that's not us, no?

 

[Z25]

I mean, that's how lynches work? I genuinely don't get what's so puzzling about lynching to end the day?



Eh, we can go back and forth about it, but I'd argue that another threat generally works in favor of Town. This is true for SKs, multi

Whenever we have games here that’s not how it works.

The way it works is whoever has the most votes if not majority gets lynched at the end of the day.

However if majority is reached then depending on the host they may use the rule of majority lynch in which case the player is lynched and the day ends no matter when the original deadline was. This isn’t used too often here but it’s gotten popular again lately.

So I see no reason why both of these can’t be in effect.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Hi all, mod here directly. On a weed comedown but I should let you know that deadline has hit and I'll be updating everything shortly. I was out with a friend from Thursday to yesterday.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Vote Count 1.11:
Utopian - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Kevin - ? (?)
Giraffelasergun - ? (Pythag, ?)
Maven - ? (Z25)
Raxxel - ? (giraffelasergun, KevinM, Dooplissity, Red Ryu)
Undecided - ? (xivii, Maven, Utopian, Raxxel)

With ? alive it takes ? to lynch. Deadline is in ? hours.

Vote Count at Deadline (11 PM Friday)

Vote Count 1.12?: (After game actions should have stopped)
Utopian - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Kevin - ? (?)
Giraffelasergun - ? (Pythag, ?)
Thirdkoopa - ? (Red Ryu, Z25, KevinM, Giraffelasergun)
Raxxel - ? (giraffelasergun, Dooplissity)
Undecided - ? (xivii, Maven, Utopian, Raxxel)

So... Theo scene coming.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

"I don't control the deadlines! I have no idea what's going on! SWEAR IT!"

"We don't care about that!"

"Okay, maybe I do have a bit more of an idea than you think... but you're not going to get your answers from lynching me."

<NEUTRAL MARKER> Thirdkoopa - Theo (Beyond the Western Deep) was revealed. This is a Non-Lethal Win condition.

And... if you all lynched fast enough, you'd all get a vote count reset to go with this. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Time to process stuff to prepare for the night phase~

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The investigation on me was a kind little gesture. You all will need to lock in your lynches faster (read: actually lock them) and send night actions faster.

Night begins at 4 PM PST.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Muskets fire out.

"WHAT THE HECK?! That wasn't supposed to happen!"

"Viva la resistance!"

That was the last they could hear of who came in. Everyone woke up in Theo's tavern surprised not to find one, but two dead bodies?!

Today surely wasn't over with shenanigans, either

Maven89 - Baxter (Self-Mason) <Rhythm Heaven Fever> was sliced in half!
Maven89 - Forthington (Self-Mason) <Rhythm Heaven Fever> was sliced in half!

With ? alive it takes ? to lynch. Deadline is in ? hours. I'm giving a bit of mercy today since I don't want to wait until 5 PM to post results to... consider from now until 5 PM PST an additional hour.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

"What's going on here, Theo?!"

Thumps affect everyone's ears

"Everything. This'll be a bumpy ride"

They look to see the entire tavern decimated.

This land could now be anyone for themselves.

The rule <Crash Landing> is now in effect.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Vote: Pythag

Getting the rounds started somehow. We've only got a limited amount of time.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Also, I'll just do it now so it doesn't get lost in the Day/Night PM

#HBC | Red Ryu Dooplissity giraffelasergun KevinM Pythag Raxxel Xivii UtopianPoyzin Z25

 

[Xivii]

Request Vote Count

Vote Count 1.12?: (After game actions should have stopped)
Utopian - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Kevin - ? (?)
Giraffelasergun - ? (Pythag, ?)
Thirdkoopa - ? (Red Ryu, Z25, KevinM, Giraffelasergun)
Raxxel - ? (giraffelasergun, Dooplissity)
Undecided - ? (xivii, Maven, Utopian, Raxxel)

Also was glg meant to be counted twice here?

 

[Dooplissity]

Whoever ****ed with my targeting can get bent. I assume that it's a Scum ability, so everyone else, be aware that it might happen to you.

I'll reread later in light of Maven flip, but I think my reads are mostly the same.

 

[Z25]

Whoever ****ed with my targeting can get bent. I assume that it's a Scum ability, so everyone else, be aware that it might happen to you.

I'll reread later in light of Maven flip, but I think my reads are mostly the same.

What happened? I’m not asking for your role but what scum ability do you think is at play? This would be a good thing to discuss as we really have no clue what scum can do currently

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Maven: MVP

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Request Vote Count Also was glg meant to be counted twice here?

No.

also I will display a vote count soon

 

[Pythag]

What happened? I’m not asking for your role but what scum ability do you think is at play? This would be a good thing to discuss as we really have no clue what scum can do currently

I'm seriously wondering the same thing.
Is it actually day now?

the pms and stuff make it seem like...things can be discussed at night?? I'm super confused.

I also am really annoyed at the Mod playing and also...not playing. Like mechanically I am completely failing to see what's going on in this game.

The investigation on me was a kind little gesture. You all will need to lock in your lynches faster (read: actually lock them) and send night actions faster.

Night begins at 4 PM PST.

Like this. WTF does this mean?
Are you referring to you could tell someone used a night action on you?
Are you referring to the case against you yesterDay?

It doesn't give me any desire to see you continue to live, if you're going to play coy like this.

Vote Xivii

I'll carry the torch, Maven.

 

[Z25]

I'm seriously wondering the same thing.
Is it actually day now?

the pms and stuff make it seem like...things can be discussed at night?? I'm super confused.

I also am really annoyed at the Mod playing and also...not playing. Like mechanically I am completely failing to see what's going on in this game.




Like this. WTF does this mean?
Are you referring to you could tell someone used a night action on you?
Are you referring to the case against you yesterDay?

It doesn't give me any desire to see you continue to live, if you're going to play coy like this.

Vote Xivii

I'll carry the torch, Maven.

I honestly don’t know myself this has been very cryptic teasing that could go either way. I’m hoping it’s actually day and not some weird ploy. I don’t see why TK would do that though, it be pretty unfair.

the opening post for the day implies something is amiss too. Also why is Maven listed as two different characters not that I think about it?

I don’t know but let’s at least try to use the time we have to try and learn something today hopefully

 

[Z25]

Actually wait a minute what the hell did happen.

alright I didn’t want to claim this earlier but I need an explanation.

I’m your bus driver and I bussed maven to doop.

how the hell did maven die and doop live?