Video Game Mafia 2 - End of Line

[Pythag]

I actually assumed Maven was written twice because he was split in twain.

 

[Z25]

I actually assumed Maven was written twice because he was split in twain.

I was thinking that actually, but why two different character names?

 

[Z25]

Actually wait a minute what the hell did happen.

alright I didn’t want to claim this earlier but I need an explanation.

I’m your bus driver and I bussed maven to doop.

how the hell did maven die and doop live?

Reposting because of new page. I think this is a big issue we need to think about

 

[Pythag]

I don't really know.

But if you're bus driver, then that would mean that doop was targeted?

Doesn't bus driver swap people?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Actually wait a minute what the hell did happen.

alright I didn’t want to claim this earlier but I need an explanation.

I’m your bus driver and I bussed maven to doop.

how the hell did maven die and doop live?

Haven’t decided if I buy this claim yet, but if you’re the bus driver that would mean doop was targeted by the night kill and maven died instead.

Why doop and maven instead?

 

[Z25]

Haven’t decided if I buy this claim yet, but if you’re the bus driver that would mean doop was targeted by the night kill and maven died instead.

Why doop and maven instead?

What do you mean?
I put maven as first and doop second. So that whatever happens to maven happens to doop. At least that’s how I understood it based on my role pm

 

[giraffelasergun]

What do you mean?
I put maven as first and doop second. So that whatever happens to maven happens to doop. At least that’s how I understood it based on my role pm

Bus driver swaps them both, so any action that targeted maven would have targeted doop, and any action that targeted doop would have targeted maven.

Why did you want what happens to maven to doop? Why did you choose these two in particular

 

[giraffelasergun]

Does your role call you bus driver?

 

[Xivii]

Like this. WTF does this mean?
Are you referring to you could tell someone used a night action on you?
Are you referring to the case against you yesterDay?

I presume he's referring to this:

<NEUTRAL MARKER> Thirdkoopa - Theo (Beyond the Western Deep) was revealed. This is a Non-Lethal Win condition.

My thinking is that either we have a day cop that reveals alignment at the end of the day or this is Tk's attempt to make us think so as to avoid being lynched/nked. I suspect the latter due to the fact that it was specifically made in a Theo post rather than by mod-Tk.

 

[Z25]

Bus driver swaps them both, so any action that targeted maven would have targeted doop, and any action that targeted doop would have targeted maven.

Why did you want what happens to maven to doop? Why did you choose these two in particular

Does your role call you bus driver?

That’s weird because the phrasing of it doesn’t add up to that in my pm. At least I don’t believe so.

my idea behind it was that scum would likely target maven because he kind of pissed people off. I choose doop as a guess on who could be scum so that they would also be taken out if they as scum killed maven

 

[Raxxel]

That’s weird because the phrasing of it doesn’t add up to that in my pm. At least I don’t believe so.

my idea behind it was that scum would likely target maven because he kind of pissed people off. I choose doop as a guess on who could be scum so that they would also be taken out if they as scum killed maven

You do realize that this is you basically deciding on your own who lives and who dies, right? Assuming you're not outright lying about the bus driver role, which feels possible since you're not even sure of whether your PM specifies you as such, you still went and decided to swap Doop and Maven with the intention of Doop dying since you expected Maven to be targeted.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

For those who are curious why Maven is two people...

He must have been both the cat and the dog, I.e. Baxter and Forthington.

As for Z25, if you really are the bus driver, then the mafia must have tried to kill Doop then?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

As for literally anything else, I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to wait until tomorrow so I can catch a snooze

 

[Z25]

You do realize that this is you basically deciding on your own who lives and who dies, right? Assuming you're not outright lying about the bus driver role, which feels possible since you're not even sure of whether your PM specifies you as such, you still went and decided to swap Doop and Maven with the intention of Doop dying since you expected Maven to be targeted.

Yes I’m aware, but would you prefer me not to use my ability?
Because if I can take out scum with it then it’s well worth the risk. And not sure? I literally said I’m the bus driver and my role says as much. So I’m very sure.

For those who are curious why Maven is two people...

He must have been both the cat and the dog, I.e. Baxter and Forthington.

As for Z25, if you really are the bus driver, then the mafia must have tried to kill Doop then?

It would seem that way since I had the way the role works backwards apparently, which my mistake.

which knowing who the target was, it’s a good topic to try and see who would have reason to target doop and why.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

You do realize that this is you basically deciding on your own who lives and who dies, right? Assuming you're not outright lying about the bus driver role, which feels possible since you're not even sure of whether your PM specifies you as such, you still went and decided to swap Doop and Maven with the intention of Doop dying since you expected Maven to be targeted.

okay this kinda makes me angry. If Z25 is a mafia-aligned bus driver, and he wanted had the intention to “kill Doop”, then why would he even claim to have used his bus driver ability at all? In extension, why WOULD he even use his ability if it would completely mess up his plan?

anywho now that’s off my chest, night.

If there are no further developments, I’m going to iso Raxxel because, to Red Ryu’s point from yesterday, THIS sounds terribly scummy.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

okay this kinda makes me angry. If Z25 is a mafia-aligned bus driver, and he wanted had the intention to “kill Doop”, then why would he even claim to have used his bus driver ability at all? In extension, why WOULD he even use his ability if it would completely mess up his plan?

anywho now that’s off my chest, night.

If there are no further developments, I’m going to iso Raxxel because, to Red Ryu’s point from yesterday, THIS sounds terribly scummy.

I think I said that wrong, but y’all get the point. If he had the ability, and planned to have his kill go through a target swap via bussing, why even bus at all?


And I meant to say I’d iso tomorrow because I’ve been curious on whether this logic could plausibly come from town!Raxxel or not.

 

[Xivii]

Whoever ****ed with my targeting can get bent. I assume that it's a Scum ability, so everyone else, be aware that it might happen to you.

What was the point in claiming this?

 

[Pythag]

Doop's early game could've made him a target

thinking he was a quadvoter,
saying he copped UP and found he was scum.
With that knowledge his attempt to hammer UP.

I get that it's RVS shenanigans, but those were the only things I could find that would have made him a target more than anyone else.

 

[Pythag]

actually, if that's true, and Doop was targeted,

Doop do you still want UP to go?

 

[Dooplissity]

What was the point in claiming this?

It's in the post. I wanted people to be aware there was targeting shenaniganry. I presumed the ability was Scum aligned, because why else would you do it to me? I also (incorrectly, due to the bus) assumed whoever did it would obviously be aware they'd done it to me, so little harm claiming.

That’s weird because the phrasing of it doesn’t add up to that in my pm. At least I don’t believe so.

my idea behind it was that scum would likely target maven because he kind of pissed people off. I choose doop as a guess on who could be scum so that they would also be taken out if they as scum killed maven

I love that you wanted to kill me but ended up saving my life from the NK. Thanks bruh.

 

[Dooplissity]

actually, if that's true, and Doop was targeted,

Doop do you still want UP to go?

He's go-able. I think I like him and Raxxel for wagons but I need to re-read when I'm not ****ed tired from work.

 

[Dooplissity]

Actually yeah, thinking further, me being targeted suggests I was right about one of UP/Z25/Raxxel. I read Z25 as town after the events of today, so I don't think I can endorse any lynch outside [UP, Raxxel]. Gotta figure out which one though.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Vote Count 2.1:
UtopianPoyzin - ? (?)
Pythag - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Xivii - ? (Pythag)
Giraffelasergun - ? (?)
Undecided - ? (Red Ryu, Dooplissity, Giraffelasergun, KevinM, Raxxel, UtopianPoyzin, Z25)

Also, so we have it here for no doubt:

• A Non-Lethal win condition means that the game will not end upon the win condition being unlocked.
• A Lethal win condition means that the game will end upon the win condition being unlocked.
• There are rare circumstances where the Town and/or Scum conditions will turn Non-Lethal upon winning. If this happens, the game at large will be notified.
• Theo (played by Thirdkoopa) has a non-Lethal win condition.

 

[Z25]

It's in the post. I wanted people to be aware there was targeting shenaniganry. I presumed the ability was Scum aligned, because why else would you do it to me? I also (incorrectly, due to the bus) assumed whoever did it would obviously be aware they'd done it to me, so little harm claiming.



I love that you wanted to kill me but ended up saving my life from the NK. Thanks bruh.

Lol I’m sorry but also your welcome.

it wasn’t anything personal just something I thought was possible. I’m glad it at least helped though. This sells me on you being town now so it’s good to have pretty much confirmation on stuff like that.

 

[Dooplissity]

To be perfectly clear, my targeting issue isn't explained by the bus. Something else was at play, potentially directed @ maven.

 

[Xivii]

I think Z25 and UP are either both scum or both town. Currently suspect S-S.

Z stated D1 that he received a message to lynch UP. I doubt it was a town message, so my thinking is either town Z received a message from scum (which indicates town UP) or the whole thing was plot between the two of them to have UP town read. The conversation between them D1 lead me to suspect the latter. The way they discussed it felt prearranged:

I know that you stated this earlier, but wasn’t it against the rules to quote stuff from PMs?


Regardless, what do you think that message shows about the person who sent it? Is it sent by town to lynch me given that I’m scum, or is it sent by an anti-town role to mislynch me toDay?

I was allowed to give out the information about the pm, I always check for clarifications.

As for who sent this. I really can’t see it be a town role. It was sent right as the phase started.

What townie in their right mind would deliver a message like that with no content for reads? I thought little of it at first because TK delivered it to me, so I thought that was them writing this and there was a reason for me to do this because the host bought it up.

When TK said it wasn’t them that wrote I think, it got me thinking on motivations and who could have wrote it.

I’d say it’s definitely from an anti town role. It would have made some sense to come from the mod giving the crazy setup but with it being given by someone else, it would make no sense for a townie to do this.

It’s definitely someone trying to push your mislynch, which is why I haven’t had any problems with your content really. I don’t see you being scum or any scum mates sending this like that. It be a bold move if town went for you day one and killed you because of a teammate or your request.

It’s to risky a play for scum to do. Maybe an indie but I can’t say I’ve ever heard of a third party messenger. Usually scum will have one.

If it’s a townie messenger the messenger will usually use this role to broadcast info they learn or to prove their role easily to the town, not to force a lynch. Messenger type roles also normally get announced in a thread. I don’t know if there’s a name for someone whose role let’s them send them through Pms only, so I’ve just been using messenger as an easy term. As I haven’t seen anyone be able to do it through pms in any game I played.

That aside, as I said this role is very likely anti town imo. I’d be willing to wager scum more likely has this role then say an indie. But I don’t have enough info to truly know right now. These actions taken by whoever it is should be something we consider going forth in the game though.

Two other things that lead me to suspect that the two of them are aligned: This is sort of game breaky, but I have a suspicion that Z's mistake in the Day/Night PM was caused by having a scum communication thread and thinking he was posting there. And then UP jumped in to let him know where he was posting.

This also felt weirdly defensive:

okay this kinda makes me angry. If Z25 is a mafia-aligned bus driver, and he wanted had the intention to “kill Doop”, then why would he even claim to have used his bus driver ability at all? In extension, why WOULD he even use his ability if it would completely mess up his plan?

anywho now that’s off my chest, night.

If there are no further developments, I’m going to iso Raxxel because, to Red Ryu’s point from yesterday, THIS sounds terribly scummy.

It reads to me, again like there was a prearranged ordeal to make (this time Z) read town and Raxxie not reading it that way provoked UP to make it explicit.

 

[Z25]

I think Z25 and UP are either both scum or both town. Currently suspect S-S.

Z stated D1 that he received a message to lynch UP. I doubt it was a town message, so my thinking is either town Z received a message from scum (which indicates town UP) or the whole thing was plot between the two of them to have UP town read. The conversation between them D1 lead me to suspect the latter. The way they discussed it felt prearranged:



Two other things that lead me to suspect that the two of them are aligned: This is sort of game breaky, but I have a suspicion that Z's mistake in the Day/Night PM was caused by having a scum communication thread and thinking he was posting there. And then UP jumped in to let him know where he was posting.

This also felt weirdly defensive:
It reads to me, again like there was a prearranged ordeal to make (this time Z) read town and Raxxie not reading it that way provoked UP to make it explicit.

One thing I want to at least comment on, is said mistake.
Your theory makes sense to a degree, however you forget that I also have a role pm where the host actively communicates things to me. I honestly never realized the second pm had anyone since only TK posted. I think Utopian was trying to be more nice then anything g, likely under the impression I was about to post my action there. Which I think anyone could have/should have spoken up tbh, because out of game mistakes that affect the game aren’t fun to have. It completely ruIns the game.

as for Utopian, I’ll give you that their post is a bit defensive, but on the contrary rax was kinda of aggressive too. Naturally that’s going to trigger something.

Utopian and Rax are also relatively new to playing so that kinda explains their manorism.

also if I was aligned with Utopian, set up this whole big concersatoon and scheme, do you really think I would blow it by letting him defend me so quickly and respond like that? That be too obvious and thinking the whole scenario was setup feels a little bit of a stretch tbh. Your points are still decent but its a scenario I think you should at least view as being unlikely. It’s possible sure, but I wouldn’t so it’s too probable for anyone to go that far.
That’s just my observations on things so far though

 

[Xivii]

How experienced are you, ooc?

 

[Z25]

How experienced are you, ooc?

Ooc I presume means out of curiosity?

and I’ve played a bunch of games but if you look at them, a lot of the older dd games players don’t really think I play too well. Kevin actually would probably be one of those as the first game I played with him
Was something ... and the last too.
I’ve only been scum once.
I’ve played a lot but I really don’t make huge plays, if I’m town and don’t have an ability I’m usually pretty bad especially in vanilla setups I won’t lie.
I have more to work with in setups like this
Though so reads are easier, and I’m good when I have a town pr as I can usually do nice work with them.

if you want other opinions though, I’d ask the thread. A good portion

 

[Z25]

Ooc I presume means out of curiosity?

and I’ve played a bunch of games but if you look at them, a lot of the older dd games players don’t really think I play too well. Kevin actually would probably be one of those as the first game I played with him
Was something ... and the last too.
I’ve only been scum once.
I’ve played a lot but I really don’t make huge plays, if I’m town and don’t have an ability I’m usually pretty bad especially in vanilla setups I won’t lie.
I have more to work with in setups like this
Though so reads are easier, and I’m good when I have a town pr as I can usually do nice work with them.

if you want other opinions though, I’d ask the thread. A good portion

*hit enter by mistake.

the last sentence is suppose to be, ask the thread for an opinion if you’d like because most of them have played with me and an outsider perspective would likely be better then my own as they could really see my strengths and weakness

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don’t expect a post from me until tonight, work is slamming me right now due to things breaking.

 

[KevinM]

We can kill Raxxel or UP today sounds dope. Still mad we didn’t get majority lynch yesterday

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Doop looking townie.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Maven is probably stronger than EE, right guys?

 

[Xivii]

Zombie Kill Maven

UtopianPoyzin you asked me D1 what I thought about Maven, but I didn't answer. Why didn't you ever follow up on it?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote: Raxxel.

Still not a fan of his early Day 1 posts.

I think Z25 is town but do want him to clear up his claim a bit. Can you paraphrase what TK says your ability does?

 

[KevinM]

I don’t like how opportunistic and parroted Raxxel has been. Z25 is suss but I’m trying to actively ignore that slot read because I think he plays pretty anti-town in general. Gonna hope Xiivi does the lifting on that slot.

Vote Raxxel

 

[KevinM]

Great UP point also, Town signaling but not actually following up is gross

 

[Z25]

Vote: Raxxel.

Still not a fan of his early Day 1 posts.

I think Z25 is town but do want him to clear up his claim a bit. Can you paraphrase what TK says your ability does?

Yes I can,

every night I can bus two people together. This will make all actions from player target another.

 

[Pythag]

Yo, I'm gonna be crazy inactive this weekend. Only phone posting (i think)


Maven was town, and he was pushing tom.
Doop was targeted, so I'm fine following him.

I think doop made some sort of a copish claim early that he was being targeted for.
even if he wasn't actually claiming, I could see that really frightening UP.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Currently I'm down to kill UP, or TK.

I don't care as much about raxxel, but I could see myself voting him if that's where the group is going.

I'm more interested in Doops leads, and even looking at Xivii, simply because we know that Maven was town, and telling the truth about being funny.