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Video: A$G vs. Wood Please comment

RebellionASG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
60
Location
Pennsylvania
All right. Here's the video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=HPBeiO3NqxI
Please watch the whole thing, and either comment here or on youtube. Constructive criticism only please. Also, if you live anywhere close to Pennsylvania or New Jersey, please say whether or not your willing to possibly meet up/attend smashfests. We are looking for new people to play, we're getting pretty bored of playing each other all the time. Wood lives in NJ, so we don't play him to often. Currently, it's just me(A$G), BOSS, and Ninja. that's all for now, there's one more video up of me playing BOSS. If you would like to see it, either say something about it or find it on the youtube link, i think it's on that page somewhere.
Thanks in advance.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
You guys Fsmash way too much. Fsmashes are generally used for end of combos, edgegaurding, and tech chasing. With a few Fsmashes in between. If one of you could wavedash out of shield consistently those Fsmashes could have been punished easily.
 

RebellionASG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
60
Location
Pennsylvania
Trust me. We can both wd out of shield consistenty. Just because we weren't doing something does not imply that we are incapable of said action. We just didn't think to use it at that point in time. And, at least to me, Fsmash is marth's sig. move and should be abused like C. falcon's knee or fox's shine.
 

HeadISBAgent

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
149
Location
San Diego//Berkeley
Trust me. We can both wd out of shield consistenty. Just because we weren't doing something does not imply that we are incapable of said action. We just didn't think to use it at that point in time. And, at least to me, Fsmash is marth's sig. move and should be abused like C. falcon's knee or fox's shine.
Wow, way to shovel good advice back in his face. That's the most outrageous claim I've heard in a long time. Yeah, I could have beat KDJ, I just didn't feel like it when I played him. Right...
And spamming Fsmash the way you do, I can't wait for you to play someone good who will punish you so badly for spamming that move that maybe you'll think twice about being an *** to people offering suggestions.
 

CORRUPTiON

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
159
Trust me. We can both wd out of shield consistenty. Just because we weren't doing something does not imply that we are incapable of said action. We just didn't think to use it at that point in time. And, at least to me, Fsmash is marth's sig. move and should be abused like C. falcon's knee or fox's shine.
Fox's shine is abused 'cause it comes out as fast as a mother ****er, and it could be jump canceled to avoid being punished. The knee isn't so much as abused as it is used to finish combos or to kill. The knee is much more mobile and much harder to punish than Marth's f-smash, since it can't be l-canceled and you're just standing there when you use it. That's just my take on the moves.

Aside from the f-smashing, I think the rest of the things you guys is pretty good. Just work on connecting those Ken combos I saw at the begining, more up-tilts instead of up-smashes, and more grab combos.
 

Dreadlord Santa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
274
Location
Southern Maryland
Edit: Curse my tendency to write entire textbooks whenever I feel like hitting that post button <_<

*ahem* To business. You DO Fsmash too much. This isn't a matter of opinion; you WILL NOT get any good Fsmashing that much. Drephen can pull that off, but he's the master of spamming gayness, AND he was playing against Captain Falcon, who's almost too easy to edgeguard. You guys don't seem to grab very much, which is strange, considering how integral grabbing is to Marth's metagame. I see a shieldgrab from time to time, but even that is mostly just after a shielded Fsmash that shouldn't have existed in the first place. You both use the fair as a ledgehop attack way too often. You won't land a tipper very often, and the non-tip fair is a joke to an opponent with his feet on solid ground - nair and uair are better decisions. You both need to refine your wavedashing, it's jerky and slow. Wood just does some stupid things - he used usmash a few times, and what's worse, YOU GOT HIT BY IT! AND HE COMBOED IT INTO A FSMASH! He gets you off the edge, and just runs away, not even bothering to edgeguard I guess.

You guys just need to pay more attention to what you're doing, I can't really analyze the way you're playing very well and give you good advice because you do too much stupid stuff: your opponent whiffs a grab, and instead of punishing him with your own grab, you sit around and do nothing; dthrow to wavedash in the wrong direction; going for grabs at %s over 100; throwing, then just running around too far away to even hope to punish people. You both look like you're trying way too hard to play like the pros, and are just failing miserably at it.

Oh, and the knee isn't really spammed by Falcon players, it's a good KO move but not very good for combos, which is what you should be going for at low percentages - I figured I should point this out, because you don't seem to grasp that concept very well. And Fox's Shine is ONE FRAME! If the shine had even half the lag that Marth's Fsmash does, nobody would ever use it, I bet. I know, this sounds like it's rather scathing, but... yeah, I guess it's scathing. You obviously missed what Arcnatural was trying to say, in that if you shield an fsmash, you get punished in this game. End of story. If you didn't think of wavedash out of shield to punish those shielded/whiffed fsmashes, you need to work on your reactions. Actually, no, even if you DO think of doing that, you STILL need to work on reacting quicker and more correctly, because you don't seem to do it very often, if at all.

Summary: You guys have the completely wrong mindset for playing Marth, and it's really preventing you from playing well. Don't go around trying to invent your style until you can play the garden-variety Marth. Trust us veteran Marth players when we make posts and videos about how to play Marth, because there is a reason why we play this way. It's a strange mentality, but in this game, it really works better to learn to play like everyone else before you learn to be unique.
 

Vice Lord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
133
Location
Scarborough, Ontario (Scarberian barbarians)
Alright rebellion heres my advice. First off read dreadlord's post thuroughly and grasp what he's trying to say. I know my post count is low, but don't let it discourage you, i've been playing advanced smash for a year now, and have all the techniques down (with marth atleast) to moderately good degree. (i beat the asians at my school, who also use advanced techs)

Now ask yourself are you playing to look fancy, or playing to win? Most likely you're overdoing the advanced techs, particularly wavedashing. Alot of situations come up in your fight where your opponent whiffs a grab, misses with a f-smash, or is dash dancing retartedly, and instead of taking advantage of their vulnerability you retreat, or just stand there, (or worse imitate them, oh god >.<)

If you shield a f-smash, waveshield into a grab, or let loose your own f-smash/f-tilt. (triangle jump is awesome for c-stick abuse marths, this is short hopping, air dodge diagonally downwards). When you dashdance mix it up, everytime i saw either of you dash dance, you always went into a grab. Grabs are great, but mix it up a bit, their are so many options. you can dashdance into a SHFFLC'd aerial, or a bladedance, a pivot'ed F-smash, shield, etc. many options, keep the opponent guessing be unpredictable.

Any player that wants to be good at marth need to know how to 2xFairSHFFLC with a 90-100% success ratio, i noticed a few of them from one of you guys, but it was used very infrequently. Another good move is the Fair/UairSHFFLC which sets up for a variety of combos. Make sure every dash-->grab you do is J/C cancelled, meaning Jump Cancelled, i noticed alot of grabs that missed this (more from the white marth) J/Cing grabs saves alot of lag from missed grabs (to do this simply press (x), or (y) 2/7ths of a second before you press (Z) to grab)

I probably should of mentioned this first, EDGEGAURD!!, if you edgegaurd, the opponent dies faster, simple! to do this use a Bair off the ledge when they're recovering from far, or use d-Tilt / F-Smash them on their way back standing near the edge. Learn how to Ledge spike too, it comes in very handy when done successfully, you can see it's application in any of the pro marth matches, its one of marths best gimp kill tricks.

A cool trick to immediately improve upon your game play is to Observe your enemy, meaning don't watch your own character when playing, watch your opponent, you shouldn't be watching yourself anyways as you already know what you're doing, (i hope).

On a less serious note i play about 50-75% of my smash games against my friends while inebriated, or under the influence of certain illicit substances (check signature), now i know what your thinking, it makes you play worse right? Yes it does, you can't think as clearly and you rely on your instincts. If possible record your matches while in this state, and watch your play style. If you can't, or don't do certain techniques while in this state properly / at all, you haven't mastered them well enough, you should be able to pull off techniques flawlessly while ****-faced, thats when you know you've mastered them. I don't know if other smashers will advise this, but it has helped me to rely on instincts and identify weaknesses, so maybe give it a try

I know i said alot of things to work on, but overall you guys aren't that bad, your definitely not noobs anymore, and could probably beat some of my friends. Just practice Observation, speed up your techniques a bit and try to master the more difficult ones and smoke a nice fat blunt. Good luck and happy smashing.
 

T3st1fy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
11
Location
I don't live. I'm dead.
You do drugs to be good at SSBM... Hmmm. And your encouraging someone else to do the same...
Hey ASG, you're definitely better than me! :D And yeah get on xfire.. I want to talk to you!!!!
 

RebellionASG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
60
Location
Pennsylvania
To Arcnatural: I did not purposefully intend to throw you advice back into your face. I was slightly frusterated and had just woken up. Also, slightly depressed because the first comment remarked on our ability to wd out of shield consistently. Which, like i said, we can both do fine, this video just wasn't a stellar performance by either of us. Thank you for the advice about my abuse of the Fsmash.
Now, to Vice Lord and DreadSanta.
Your posts were well thought out, intuitive and much appreciated. I really hope to improve now that I better understand my faults so that I might begin to correct them. The first step is admitting you have a problem =)

To T3st1fy: I AM on xfire right now, so get on it :) and we'll talk some more
 

RebellionASG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
60
Location
Pennsylvania
To Corruption, whom i accidentally left out of the first post
Thank you for the advice, and for having watched our video whereas a lesser person might have just ignored it. Much appreciated.

Also, to HeadISBAgent.
I don't mean to imply that I could ever beat KDJ, because I know it simply won't happen. I was remarking that a vast majority of people believe Marth's Fsmash to be overpowered, cheap, and in the end, abused to the extreme. I realize that I do use it a bit much, so i will attempt to adapt my gameplay.
To Cactuar.
I have seen your videos, and I would love to play you. I would get destroyed, I know. But I am merely looking for someone else to play because I've been playing against the same 3-4 people for the past 2 years and they're getting bored with the game. So, be my guest if you would like to come and play me. I don't mind losing, I need the experience badly.

Thank you all for taking the time to watch our video.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
I don't have a ride anywhere, so you would have to come to Philly. I'm free everyday 3-10, but I'm usually gone weekends for tournaments.
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
LMAO!!

****, you guys forward smash more times in the first 15 seonds then I do in an average match up. Wow...yeah you may know some of the moves, but my gosh, gota know how to use them allot better then that.
 

RebellionASG

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
60
Location
Pennsylvania
Aight cactuar, I live in Langhorne, Bucks County so i'm only like 45 mins from Philly =) so maybe we can work something out. I should be getting my license within the month, so I'll try to let ya know when i get it. AIM = RebellionASG, what's yours?
 
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