Viable as a Solo main?

[GHNeko]

I can understand why they do this, I mean I prefer to have LB fully charged for the whole match. Not because Im fishing for a Down B, Side B, or Nuetral B kill, but because Cloud moves So Much faster and more fluid with it active. Im able to punish in the Nuetral way more efficiently, as well as get back to the stage with a simple double jump thanks to his added side to side mobility. Granted your a little prone to edgeguard like that, but with LB full you can simply airdodge the edgeguard and snap to the ledge. Being a Samus player I know how to get charged while keeping mobile and evasive. (especially since Samus cant charge in the air) I dont use it for its recovery specifically, I use it for its mind games. Much like Samus' CS, people tend to play more defensive, easier to read, when a charge is full. However unlike Samus, Cloud can kill very handily without his LB moves. But the more time passes that you dont use a LB move the higher chance youll get your opponent to sleep on it, then bam, you punish them hard for it.

Maybe Im completely wrong and its just the Samus in me that thinks that there are benefits to holding it in.

You can be forced to burn LB if you're always holding on to it, plus you lose out on having a projectile and a nice punishing tool and damage wracker. And Limit makes Cloud a bit easier to combo. There are definately some characters that punish you better while being in Limit than without it.

You also lose out on Limit Cancel stuff.

That aside, Limit Cloud is easily one of Cloud's strongest trump cards and when utilized intellgently becomes something that can cause fear in your opponents and dare I even go as far as to say as allows you to counterpick mid-match since he plays somewhat differently than Reg Cloud and has to be approached, and approaches MUs differently vs Reg Cloud.

Being able to pick the Cloud that's best for the MU or the situation at any moment in time is something that I feel people will value more as days go on.

 

[nedskii-]

Cloud OP, so yes.

 

[DaDavid]

You're perceiving my posts wrong if your take away is "dont trust him blindly u guys." because my 2nd post on that topic literally had the words, "You can trust his judgement". lol



I actually dont think a lot of people understand that. I still see a lot of Cloud's charging limit and holding onto it. Japanese Clouds are still fairly prone to doing this, at least the ones I see on SHI-Gaming's YT Channel. The sooner people realize that there is a time and place for Limit the better.



Credit for those 2 things should go to @tttttSD and MySmashCorner since they're the ones that documented and shared the potency of AD into up B snap and recovering high pretty early into Cloud's meta.

That's why I said "blindly," but sorry if it seemed like I wasn't reading your posts. I just thought that that word was enough to get your sentiment across.

And I only meant to credit the snap when horizontal to the ledge to him, and that would of course be because that's where I saw it first. I know that MySmashCorner first documented recovering high but I was hoping that my sentence structure wasn't going to end up implying that I was crediting him for both, oh well haha.
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At any rate, I suppose I can see the validity of holding onto charge in certain MU's but as was pointed out, it can put you in a position where the opponent dictates your use of LB instead of you. Personally I would rather blow it early on an attempted Cross Slash and start charging again over having to use to recover because I had it. Especially given how damn early LB Cross Slash can kill certain characters.

 

[JAZZ_]

You can be forced to burn LB if you're always holding on to it, plus you lose out on having a projectile and a nice punishing tool and damage wracker. And Limit makes Cloud a bit easier to combo. There are definately some characters that punish you better while being in Limit than without it.

You also lose out on Limit Cancel stuff.

That aside, Limit Cloud is easily one of Cloud's strongest trump cards and when utilized intellgently becomes something that can cause fear in your opponents and dare I even go as far as to say as allows you to counterpick mid-match since he plays somewhat differently than Reg Cloud and has to be approached, and approaches MUs differently vs Reg Cloud.

Being able to pick the Cloud that's best for the MU or the situation at any moment in time is something that I feel people will value more as days go on.

Well I can say with some certainty, L-Cloud works extremely well against a Mewtwo, more so than Normie Cloud.

 

[GHNeko]

Oh yeah for sure. L-Cloud is usually the better option vs M2.

But yeah it's that versatility on top of versatility that Cloud has; that once mastered will make it easy for him to use as a Solo main while being able to succeed.

Though I've joked around and be joked towards that if you use Cloud, you automatically 2ndary L-Cloud. lmao

 

[JAZZ_]

Oh yeah for sure. L-Cloud is usually the better option vs M2.

But yeah it's that versatility on top of versatility that Cloud has; that once mastered will make it easy for him to use as a Solo main while being able to succeed.

Though I've joked around and be joked towards that if you use Cloud, you automatically 2ndary L-Cloud. lmao

would that mean since he's my secondary behind Ganon that L-Cloud is my Tertiary?

 

[GHNeko]

would that mean since he's my secondary behind Ganon that L-Cloud is my Tertiary?

Nono. L-Cloud takes over the 2ndary position if you main cloud. Anyone who was your 2ndary before no longer is your 2ndary. Kappa

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

Nono. L-Cloud takes over the 2ndary position if you main cloud. Anyone who was your 2ndary before no longer is your 2ndary. Kappa

The only question l have is whether Limit Cloud is a viable secondary for Regular Cloud?

Almost a serious question here. How much of a difference does the overall speed boost and lack of options compared to normal make on Cloud, should you choose to hold onto limit? l really like the thought of switching the match-up entirely in a little more than 6 seconds (plus repositioning to keep safe).

 

[GHNeko]

The only question l have is whether Limit Cloud is a viable secondary for Regular Cloud?

Almost a serious question here. How much of a difference does the overall speed boost and lack of options compared to normal make on Cloud, should you choose to hold onto limit? l really like the thought of switching the match-up entirely in a little more than 6 seconds (plus repositioning to keep safe).

Uhhhhh. I'd put L-Cloud strictly in the CP category for 2ndaries.

So I guess that L-Cloud is Viable as a 2ndary???

The thing about L-Cloud is while you lose access to his specials outside of recovery, and killing. It makes your effective range with normals larger and safer. You can punish from a greater distance and some strings become combos. You can run away better as well as get in easier. You also have an innate pressure that can cause your opponent to respect you without you having to commit to anything. Ofc you lose reversals (Up B OOS) and the ranged game like I stated, but not only is that okay for certain MUs (like L-Cloud v D3 or M2 is easier than R-Cloud vs those 2); but depending on how well you can predict and adapt your opponent, you can probably play the whole MU as L-Cloud just fine as long as you have a strong handle over your normals in combination with L-Cloud's speed and your opponent cant easily force you off stage or force reversals out of you.

Same deal with R-Cloud honestly. If you can handle your opponent, or the MU calls for R-Cloud over L-Cloud; then staying strictly R-Cloud is viable too.


also ayyyyyy Devil Survivor 2.

 

[FUEGO!]

I can understand why they do this, I mean I prefer to have LB fully charged for the whole match. Not because Im fishing for a Down B, Side B, or Nuetral B kill, but because Cloud moves So Much faster and more fluid with it active. Im able to punish in the Nuetral way more efficiently, as well as get back to the stage with a simple double jump thanks to his added side to side mobility. Granted your a little prone to edgeguard like that, but with LB full you can simply airdodge the edgeguard and snap to the ledge. Being a Samus player I know how to get charged while keeping mobile and evasive. (especially since Samus cant charge in the air) I dont use it for its recovery specifically, I use it for its mind games. Much like Samus' CS, people tend to play more defensive, easier to read, when a charge is full. However unlike Samus, Cloud can kill very handily without his LB moves. But the more time passes that you dont use a LB move the higher chance youll get your opponent to sleep on it, then bam, you punish them hard for it.

Maybe Im completely wrong and its just the Samus in me that thinks that there are benefits to holding it in.

TBH, i've found myself just completely not charging unless it's between stocks, and just keep up pressure, and I usually end up getting Limit when I need it. Even when I get it, i do what you're talking about and just hang onto it like it's a "Super Saiyan Cloud" mode, or something.

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

TBH, i've found myself just completely not charging unless it's between stocks, and just keep up pressure, and I usually end up getting Limit when I need it. Even when I get it, i do what you're talking about and just hang onto it like it's a "Super Saiyan Cloud" mode, or something.

l like charging it up with about half FD distance away from the opponent, more or less. They feel a need to approach, you jumping around, canceling limit can get you some nice hits in. l doubt this would work a lot, though, especially if your opponent can think and understands indirect pressure. Moving in on Cloud while charging forces an option from you, which could be taken advantage of if they learn to guess right.

Although this is looking at it with FD, because idk, FG thought process. With platforms (especially moving ones), charging up can be quite a bit safer, as long as you aren't too close to the opponent, obviously.

 

[GHNeko]

Platforms are great for limit camping since you can drop through platforms directly from Limit Charge, making it a lot safer to charge limit near your opponent. Also makes for good bait kek.

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

... makes for good bait kek.

Using Limit overall for bait works too well. l love it.

 

[No0dle]

Yeah just charging limit then shield grabbing when they try to dash attack is b e a utiful

 

[MockRock]

Could is absolutely 100% viable as a solo main. Watch Mew2King or Tweek. That'll tell you everything you need to know.