Viability of hitting grounded opponents with Jab 1 to Boost Kick

[DeLux]

Info Dump -

1. 1. 100/0 - Guaranteed on strong and weak hit of jab 1
      
      1. Rosalina Luma - Luma can jank things up though
   2. 75/25 - Guaranteed on strong hit of jab 1 / weak 50/50
      
      1. Luigi - can sweet spot some bull****
         
         
      2. Yoshi - Can DJ armor
         
         
      3. GnW - Fire, dj
         
         
      4. Little Mac - DJ, KO Punch
         
         
      5. Toon Link -
         
         
      6. Samus
         
         
      7. Marth - Dancing Blade, Dolphin Slash, Counter
         
         
      8. Pit - Reflect
         
         
      9. Lucario - Counter
         
         
      10. Pikachu - May have to dash strong hit
          
          
      11. Ness -
          
          
      12. Villager - jab on weak, pocket
          
          
      13. Olimar - Grounded whistle
          
          
      14. wft
          
          
      15. Dr. Mario - weak hit cape
          
          
      16. Dark Pit - Reflect
   3. 50/50 - Guaranteed on Strong Hit of jab1 / weak hit will always shield
      
      
   4. 50/50 - 50/50 Strong Hit / 50/50 Weak Hit
      
      1. Mario - Can super jump punch
         
         
      2. DK - DJ Air Dodge out
         
         
      3. Bowser Jr - No escapes
         
         
      4. Wario - Bite, Waft Escapes, DJ
         
         
      5. Ike - Counter, dj
         
         
      6. Robin- DJ
         
         
      7. King DDD
         
         
      8. Rob
         
         
      9. Sonic
         
         
      10. Pac Man - Up Special
   5. 25/75 - 50/50 strong hit, Shielded Weak Hit
      
      1. Diddy - Can grab, roll, spot dodge, but not double jump?
         
         
      2. ZSS
         
         
      3. Falco -
         
         
      4. Greninja
   6. 0/100 - will always shield
      
      1. Bowser
         
         
      2. Sheik
         
         
      3. Link*
         
         
      4. Ganon
         
         
      5. Palutena
         
         
      6. Fox
         
         
      7. MK
         
         
      8. Charizard - up special
         
         
      9. falcon
         
         
      10. Megaman
   7. Weird
      
      1. Must Dash for strong hit jab 1
         
         1. Peach - Strong hit can air dodge the move with floating. Weird strong hit principles Weak Hits are 50/50 like normal. Parasol
            
            
         2. Zelda - Same as peach
      2. Must Dash for weak hit
         
         1. Duck Hunt - Strong Hits Guaranteed - Buffer Dash on weak hits 50/50
      3. Kirby class landing animations crouch under boost kick and jab 1
         
         
      4. Jigglypuff jank - same as kirby with crouching / air dodge animation making things jank
         
         
      5. Shulk manodo arts jank - This one was very weird and mixed results

Notes:
- This was done testing grounded opponents. Obviously this gets more viable if you catch people in the air without a double jump (or with a DJ and they don't try to DJ away).
- I suspect that the rates are based off of some sort of fall speed variable (fall acceleration, fast fall speed, IDK what the ICMV's are for the game, but it does not follow weight/launch resistance)
- Shoutout to SilentProtagonist and NextLevelStreaming for testing this for a couple hours on New Year's Eve

TLDR - Jab 1 to Boost Kick can be used as a kill setup gimmick, since there appears to be some guaranteed escape assuming the correct reactions at the right time. However, choosing the wrong option tends to lead into guaranteeing boost kick connects, and sometimes the wrong option is simply the right option done too late or early.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah I've starting trying this a bit more it's actually legit.

 

[SilentProtagonist]

I like how you it's literally an info dump and you opted not to change phrasings like "Luigi can up b sweet spot some bull****" lol

Glad to have been able to help lab this out man. It was even more interesting finding out that there's even a strong hit on Jab 1. I was really inspired by your's and Dakpo's ZSS and found out how much I actually like playing the character. Hope I can rep her well and that this might be a good first step in doing so!

 

[smashkng]

Great thread. Now 1 very important to thing to clarify is what do you mean with weak and strong hit of jab since you didn't say anything about that. Is it a sourspot/sweetspot? Or is it just based on from how far away you hit your opponent?

 

[hiROI]

This looks awesome! Unfortunate that it might not be as effective for Diddy and Sheik , but none the less great start. Thank you to all who did this

 

[DeLux]

Great thread. Now 1 very important to thing to clarify is what do you mean with weak and strong hit of jab since you didn't say anything about that. Is it a sourspot/sweetspot? Or is it just based on from how far away you hit your opponent?

There appears to be a hitbox close to ZSS where that has a higher pop up / knock back from Jab 1. There also appears to be a hitbox farther from ZSS that has less pop up / knock back. I don't know the official hitbox data, so I can't confirm, just based on what I was seeing

It's just one of those gimmicky pressure options we can use with quasi kill potential.

I feel like more characters can DJ airdodge out than I listed (maybe even all of them that aren't guaranteed shield), but on many characters there was enough range on boost kick to hit them out of the air dodge. Since that's all super spacing dependent, I think we stopped bothering to test on those.

 

[Kesno]

I can agree that jab to up b does work pretty well but the problem I've seen is that you don't have enough time to do up b before the person hits the ground. The person generally hits the ground and shields before I personally can up b maybe cause I'm not as fast on the controller as other people I don't know. The best way I found to hit it is to just jab people in the air then up b like catch them jumping and you gottem. Example: I was playing a marth friend of mine and he misspaced a fair, so I just did jab to up b and that was all she wrote. This generally makes her harder to land next to or jump in front of. I can't really call it consistent, but it is definitely a great tech to have.
Something I'd like to ask though is what do you think about the viability of setting up the filp jump attack spike with the different moves in her moveset. I've done some testing and you can somewhat get the spike to work off her different moves like f tilt, d tilt, and even side b. You could also get it off of throws and such. This was tested on a cpu marth in training mode so you have to take into account actual people DI. It's about getting that good launch angle from the hit. I'd like to know if you think that it could be viable though.

 

[DeLux]

The testing was done to find which characters you do have time to boost kick before they hit the ground.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I can agree that jab to up b does work pretty well but the problem I've seen is that you don't have enough time to do up b before the person hits the ground. The person generally hits the ground and shields before I personally can up b maybe cause I'm not as fast on the controller as other people I don't know. The best way I found to hit it is to just jab people in the air then up b like catch them jumping and you gottem. Example: I was playing a marth friend of mine and he misspaced a fair, so I just did jab to up b and that was all she wrote. This generally makes her harder to land next to or jump in front of. I can't really call it consistent, but it is definitely a great tech to have.
Something I'd like to ask though is what do you think about the viability of setting up the filp jump attack spike with the different moves in her moveset. I've done some testing and you can somewhat get the spike to work off her different moves like f tilt, d tilt, and even side b. You could also get it off of throws and such. This was tested on a cpu marth in training mode so you have to take into account actual people DI. It's about getting that good launch angle from the hit. I'd like to know if you think that it could be viable though.

best flip kick setups I found are SH nAir FF>kick which is a true combo on certain percents and bThrow> kick which can be DId out of. Especially the latter can kill crazy early.