ValiantVictoriousVictini(V.V.V)

[Aurane]

Props for putting together this blog ASage.

Although I personally think Victini and Zoroark would both be much better pokeball pokemon than playable. If I had to pick one, Victini takes my vote now.

On the topic of the Victory Star:
What if the Victory effect also boosted speed/agility? It would help differentiate from Lucario's aura thingymabob more.

There's going to be some changes to the moveset. I think the one I recently made will be alot better than what I origianlly made. Thanks to everyone for helping my blog become better, btw!

 

[Deleted member]

In regards to the IGN poll, I think the reason why the result came out as it did for Zoroark and Victini was because at the time, Zoroark was the main Pokemon being advertised and receiving the most attention (I think the poll was half a year ago), not to mention that 5th gen hadn't been out for even a year. A lot of the advertisement focus (though not all) has since shifted to Victini. If the IGN poll were being held today, Victini would almost certainly reach the Top 100, possibly even beating out Zoroark in the process.

Well, Sakurai said himself that he viewed Pichu as a JOKE character. Not surprising either he wasn't in Brawl, not to mention, not even part of the "Forbidden Seven" which bore Melee veterans like Mewtwo and Dr. Mario. But not Pichu. Also, Sakurai also noted many were to just fatten the roster, so it was not only a joke, but a filler one at that.

I think what's more important to note is that he liked the idea of Pichu being in the game and as such, added him to the roster. If the Pokemon Company were truly against Pichu being a joke character, they would have stopped Sakurai from doing so. Sakurai has also reportedly gone on the record to say he loves all of his characters and I'm assuming this includes the Melee cut vets. Even if Pichu will likely never show up again, I seriously doubt Sakurai wanted to cut anyone from the Melee roster. While Sakurai may view Pichu as a joke character, I don't think he considers anyone a true filler; otherwise, he would have expressed his regret for Pichu.

Sakurai does mention that bringing something original to the game does come into his mind, and yes while Toon Link is mostly clone (though different enough, I'd say, but more different the better), he does bring something original by having his cel-shaded appearance and play-style which remedied anyone who felt that the Brawl Link was much slowed down and harder to play as, and also replaced the much-more-of-a-clone Young Link.

Going by that definition, Victini would fit under that as well. Not only would it have an unique move set (as would Zoroark if he got in), it would also bring something original by being the first Mew-like Pokemon to be playable, something that we've never had before. The play-style would be of that of a character that is fast and focuses on strong aerial game (One of the best) along with more then decent amount of power due to being a legendary with a major weakness being it can be KO'd easily.

 

[victinivcreate1]

To get some serious discussion going, I'd like to challenge all Victini Believers against their beliefs (a friendly challenge of course, not entirely invested in any particular pokemon that much). I personally find Victini not to be an excellent shoe-in, in fact it isn't very SSB-like. It is a pokemon with a baby-type personality, one that if you move too fast it'll cry, and the type that never takes a step, it is always flying about. These things are completely different from any size argument since these things, if altered, essentially become forced and out-of-character. I'd say Zoroark fans get you 1-0 at that from basically oozing a fighting shape, potentiality, appearance, and personality.

Also, in regard to Victini's interesting Ability, it is unfortunately hard to implement into a fighting game such as this as someone has wisely noted. This basically drops one of the most fundamentally interesting aspects a potential SSB4 character could have with their depth, which caused you to make it a carbon copy of Lucario's, which as everyone stated already, is just a plain awful idea. Lacks originality, and here comes that horrible word again: forced. But here look, Zoroark has the Illusion ability, which could easily be used, be it through a final smash, or a Special Move to transform into an opposing player, or even that Zoroark comes onto the stage as one of the other players to confuse any challenger (whether player #'s would still remain or not in this instance may more or less be the case, but you get the point that I am trying to make). Zoroark can be marked up as 2-0.

Zoroark also could bear a more interesting move-set, or at least so it seems in terms of what you posted at the start, which to me isn't very adequate at all. It is quite bland and the moves do not stand out even the slightest. At the top of my head Zoroark could be easier and better, using Hone Claws as a Down B to strengthen attacks, Standard B to use flamethrower, Down B with Night Daze, with a Sucker Punch Up B that can deal high priority counter damage if struck. That is completely beside using Illusion as a special move, or using moves like Thief, Fury Swipes, U-Turn, all things that could even still be used or swapped in. To me that is the third strike.

More could probably be said, but I am tired at the present moment. Again, this is just to get a topic going, no hate flinging or anything from me. Wouldn't be too about seeing him, just analyzing it is all.

Flamethrower as a b move would copy Charizard and this isn't the pokemon games where you need type coverage for moves. This is smash and the moves you need are the damage rackers then finish with a powerful smash or aerial (looking at you Falcon's knee smash).

 

[Aurane]

Updates have appeared. Take a look at them in the MOVESET file.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

-(NEW!) Direction Smashing:
If you click (A)Smash, you can press any other direction, and combo smash attacks. Expample: You use (A)Smash>, then press up, and Victini'll preform his (A)^ smash, then press down, and he'll preform that smash too. The next two hits lock the opponent, so try and start with (A)v to lock the opponent faster.

Although I like the idea, looking at the Smash Attacks... the moves do not seemingly flow together at all. It seems to not work as fluidly as a mechanic such as that should.

Special Trait: Victory Star
OK, so I was told that the original moveset lacked unique ability, so I changed it from being a copy of Lucario’s special trait, to this.
As we know, Victory Star in the PKMN games raises Accuracy of Victini and his friends. So, how do we incorporate this sort of thing to Sm4sh?

Victory Star: When Victini KO’s an opponent, his forehead will glow a tiny bit. After three kills, his forehead will be shiny orange. For every kill, Victini’s fire moves gain power, doing 0.5x more than they did before. The maximum number of kill-charge is 3, meaning 1.5x the charge. Now, when he dies, he loses this boost, and will have to regain. The special part about this is that when Victini uses his FS, the energy is taken, and used for an explosive landing. If there are three kills x V-Create, Victini will land, blowing up 2.5 character spaces around him, auto KO everyone nearby with 100% DMG.

Better than last time, still seems like you are simply now putting a cloak over Lucario's trait. Also, most importantly, it is STILL missing the entire point that it has nothing to do with power, but luck and accuracy. It should be about that. He doesn't even boost his own power, when he does boost power in the movie, which was irrespective of the trait anyhow. You should have put more thought into it still, even at the cost of being complicated if you must.

(B) Moveset:
B): Searing Shot: He brings both hands up, and charges a huge fire ball above himself. It takes 1 second longer to charge then Lucario's Aura Sphere. When released, and fire ball with fiery rings surrounding it will be shot straight forward. It's one click slower than Lucario's Aura Sphere, and goes 3 character spaces forward. When it hits someone, it explodes 1 1/2 character spaces around it, and does higher damage than a Bob-omb, but less knockback than a Bob-Omb. If it goes 3 character spaces, and hits no one, it'll do the effect stated above, except it'll do half of what it usually does.

(B)>: Zen Headbutt: Victini dashes forward in quick succession. If opponent is near, he'll grab them, then headbutt them forward. If you use this in the air, it'll be like Jigglypuff's (B)>. If he grabs someone in the air, he'll put them under him, and he'll fly straight down, with his head to the victim. A mix of Lucario, Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf's (B)>.

(B)v: Work Up
He holds the ground with both hands, and then starts to glow orange and blue. Anyone who attacks him does damage, but no knockback. They might wanna step off, because when attacked, he'll grab the opponent, and do double the damage they did to him. So, if Ike does around 30% DMG, Victini does 60% DMG. The opponent will also be shot upwards, but always 2 character spaces upwards. Sheilds will shatter if they do try to sheild. Takes 2 seconds for Victini to recover from it.

(B)^: Flame Charge:
He shoots himself upwards, then press the analog stick in any direction, and he'll be shot that direction as well. Much like Pikachu's, but does Fire damage, and has a sweet spot on the 2nd dash, which is at the tip end of his dash (Like Wolf's (B)>).

FS: V-Create:
He'll dash straight forward, as fast as Marth's (FS) dash. If anyone's hit, they get shot upwards. Then, a citimatic shows all of them in space, then in the distance, Victini comes, and hits them with V-Create, doing exactly 180% DMG. He'll always land in the middle on the stage, and his landing is super godly: He'll hit everyone, then slam onto the ground, and then explode. How the explosion works involves his new Victory Star Trait.

Also, these primarily seem different versions of what I have seen before. Has a Lucario/Samus/Mewtwo charge blast, has a counter move which involves grabbing, a Pikachu Up B, a mash up others for the over B, which seems to confuse me when in air you say it becomes a punch when it used to be a running tackle move. The Final Smash is a bit of mix of many others as well, but more tolerable than the rest.

Perhaps some B moves could be like

B: Inferno- Tosses out a slow moving fire ball that goes a short distance before sizzling out, but if it hits a target they get wrapped and stuck inside a damaging fire vortex that does weak 10% damage before shooting them upward with a gust of wind, good for setting them up for juggles without even being nearby and even on ground.

Downward B: Final Gambit- Jumps to the side with all its strength, throwing its head out dealing a maximum of 50% damage, minus for every percentage damage done to it, and crashing down onto the ground unless intercepted getting dealt the amount of percentage damage it has onto itself, killing yourself at high percentages. If you are above 50% damage when using this, it deals 1% damage.

Forward B: Flame Charge- Can be held as you get in a running stance and holds on the maximum charge after three seconds, and letting go forces you into a crazed run that not even you can stop that burns enemies hit for 5% damage and leaves behind a small line of flames from each step dealing 1% passive damage for the second it persists.

Upward B: Confusion- Begins to float higher onto the ground and begins to free roam like Pit but spins around slowly and unreliably, but if anyone gets in Ike-sized range from it get their controls reversed for several seconds from the confusion (Directions become the opposites and A moves become the B)

Reversal and Zen Headbutt can be its throws, back and down respectively, up could be a Psyshock that pops that towards the sky. Forward could be more interesting where he infuses a lot of power into the victim only to send them shooting with that power to the side for great distance like when Ash got powered up and leaped onto a far away ledge.

Maybe have a taunt where he becomes invisible at the end of it and lasts for three seconds that can be used a little for fun. V-Create can stay the same, though without the Marth charge and more of a rise up and crash down with the V-Create, doing as much damage but perhaps without the godly range.

I don't know, that to me just simply seems better and more unique, with very few similarities. Still think it should be a pokeball, and at best give it a Power or Luck giving technique unto the one who unleashed it, to be a more indirectly powerful legendary pokemon summon.

 

[Aurane]

Although I like the idea, looking at the Smash Attacks... the moves do not seemingly flow together at all. It seems to not work as fluidly as a mechanic such as that should.

Updates on (A) Moves have not been done yet. I already knew this, seeing the smash moves x DT.

Better than last time, still seems like you are simply now putting a cloak over Lucario's trait. Also, most importantly, it is STILL missing the entire point that it has nothing to do with power, but luck and accuracy. It should be about that. He doesn't even boost his own power, when he does boost power in the movie, which was irrespective of the trait anyhow. You should have put more thought into it still, even at the cost of being complicated if you must.

The difference is that Lucario is based on Stanima overall. Victini is based on Kills, which also affects his V-Create tenfold. Though Luke's trait affects his FS, too, it's not as much as Victini's.

The problem with saying that it's cloaking Luke is that... it isn't Lol

The point is that Lucario doesn't have this sort of ability in game, so you can't say that it HAS to be Luck and Accuracy.

He DOES NOT boost power in the movie. He GIVES power. He never once gained power. But, Victory Star will fall under construction, due to effects. I'll be adding a new mechanic called Stall Knocking. I'll explain this in due time, and how it relates with Victory Star.


Also, these primarily seem different versions of what I have seen before. Has a Lucario/Samus/Mewtwo charge blast, has a counter move which involves grabbing, a Pikachu Up B, a mash up others for the over B, which seems to confuse me when in air you say it becomes a punch when it used to be a running tackle move. The Final Smash is a bit of mix of many others as well, but more tolerable than the rest.

Perhaps some B moves could be like

B: Inferno- Tosses out a slow moving fire ball that goes a short distance before sizzling out, but if it hits a target they get wrapped and stuck inside a damaging fire vortex that does weak 10% damage before shooting them upward with a gust of wind, good for setting them up for juggles without even being nearby and even on ground.

Downward B: Final Gambit- Jumps to the side with all its strength, throwing its head out dealing a maximum of 50% damage, minus for every percentage damage done to it, and crashing down onto the ground unless intercepted getting dealt the amount of percentage damage it has onto itself, killing yourself at high percentages. If you are above 50% damage when using this, it deals 1% damage.

Forward B: Flame Charge- Can be held as you get in a running stance and holds on the maximum charge after three seconds, and letting go forces you into a crazed run that not even you can stop that burns enemies hit for 5% damage and leaves behind a small line of flames from each step dealing 1% passive damage for the second it persists.

Upward B: Confusion- Begins to float higher onto the ground and begins to free roam like Pit but spins around slowly and unreliably, but if anyone gets in Ike-sized range from it get their controls reversed for several seconds from the confusion (Directions become the opposites and A moves become the B)

Reversal and Zen Headbutt can be its throws, back and down respectively, up could be a Psyshock that pops that towards the sky. Forward could be more interesting where he infuses a lot of power into the victim only to send them shooting with that power to the side for great distance like when Ash got powered up and leaped onto a far away ledge.

Maybe have a taunt where he becomes invisible at the end of it and lasts for three seconds that can be used a little for fun. V-Create can stay the same, though without the Marth charge and more of a rise up and crash down with the V-Create, doing as much damage but perhaps without the godly range.

I don't know, that to me just simply seems better and more unique, with very few similarities. Still think it should be a pokeball, and at best give it a Power or Luck giving technique unto the one who unleashed it, to be a more indirectly powerful legendary pokemon summon.
Problem: Signature moves will always be a priority to Sakurai. Seeing Lucario and Mewtwo confirms this, and to a sense, Pikachu with FS.

Also, the mechanics of the moves are much different from what they once were. Copying is invalid. Everyone has a connection, so it's hard to say that Victini is a complete copycat. Example: Pikmin throw=Peach Turnip. It's the same concept, but Pikmin with Edge. Example: Luigi's Headbutt=Pikachu's Headbutt. It's the same, but Luigi has a chance to rocket off, while Pikachu can clear the entire Final Destination stage with a 100% charge skull bash.

Answers underlined.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Answers underlined.

Lucario's ability where he gains power and range depending on his damage... is the exact same as yours. I fail to see any difference. You're giving Victini a power boost all the same simply via a different method, which is almost excusable except for the icing on the cake that is the fact it is completely fabricated to begin with since his trait has nothing to do with power.

And I also fail to see the difference between giving power and boosting power. That is basically insinuating nothing has any amount of power. When you give power, it adds onto another's power as a sum, which is GREATER than the original power level, thus being a boost. But what you say anyhow backs what I say up, he himself never gains any legitimate power, which is what you continue to grant him.

As for signature moves... nothing we have seen confirms anything. It doesn't even appear that way at all. V-Create is the only imaginable move to be his signature, which we both agree should be his final smash. The other moves I have selected are in his move-set and are his more iconic popular moves. The only difference really is that you use less, and the addition of the special Victini moves seen only in the mystery event, which are not his signature moves. He doesn't normally do them, nor were they seen in the movie that the Pokemon celebrates. You're stretching the Sakurai thing, at any rate, I fail as well to see how YOU see in Sakurai's mind in this, even if things were the case as you say it is, even the move-sets we have don't show that.

For copying... that is not invalid. It is obvious that main things are impossible to avoid, like projectiles, spikes, etc. But that doesn't mean you have to embrace it and do things precisely as the others do it, especially with things not as fundamental as the previous examples such as the exact same Special moves with an altered element or a combination of moves we have. Not that it probably isn't allowed at all (although Sakurai DID say he seeks a character to bring something original to the game), but it is simply preferable to unoriginal counterparts, at least while they aren't seemingly better than the original ones.

 

[Aurane]

Lucario's ability where he gains power and range depending on his damage... is the exact same as yours. I fail to see any difference. You're giving Victini a power boost all the same simply via a different method, which is almost excusable except for the icing on the cake that is the fact it is completely fabricated to begin with since his trait has nothing to do with power.

No... Lucario pertains on Stanima. Victini pertains on KOs, which affect his overall power. This is NOT the same as Lucario. Also, for the trait relationships, Double Team argues the logic.

And I also fail to see the difference between giving power and boosting power. That is basically insinuating nothing has any amount of power. When you give power, it adds onto another's power as a sum, which is GREATER than the original power level, thus being a boost. But what you say anyhow backs what I say up, he himself never gains any legitimate power, which is what you continue to grant him.

It's a boost because the FS will rid the power, therefore it is a temporary power up. Thus he doesn't gain anything.

As for signature moves... nothing we have seen confirms anything. It doesn't even appear that way at all. V-Create is the only imaginable move to be his signature, which we both agree should be his final smash. The other moves I have selected are in his move-set and are his more iconic popular moves. The only difference really is that you use less, and the addition of the special Victini moves seen only in the mystery event, which are not his signature moves. He doesn't normally do them, nor were they seen in the movie that the Pokemon celebrates. You're stretching the Sakurai thing, at any rate, I fail as well to see how YOU see in Sakurai's mind in this, even if things were the case as you say it is, even the move-sets we have don't show that.

I've said this before. I'll restate it again. I go with the logic of relevence, or what has already occured. EVERY PKMN has their signature moves, and it is very likely those moves will contribute. Searing Shot is one of Victini more noticed moves because it was released first. V-Create is too powerful to dub as a (B) move, rather FS is the key. BTW They WERE used in the movie, Searing Shot and V-Create. You might wanna watch it again.

For copying... that is not invalid. It is obvious that main things are impossible to avoid, like projectiles, spikes, etc. But that doesn't mean you have to embrace it and do things precisely as the others do it, especially with things not as fundamental as the previous examples such as the exact same Special moves with an altered element or a combination of moves we have. Not that it probably isn't allowed at all (although Sakurai DID say he seeks a character to bring something original to the game), but it is simply preferable to unoriginal counterparts, at least while they aren't seemingly better than the original ones.

Recombing what you just said: Olimar can't toss Pikmin because Peach tosses Turnips. Elements are always revamped. Please note that Victini isn't 100% original. I'm not going for that. I'm looking for a moveset that suits who he is, and due to the movie and the game, it's working (Game being SSB and PKMN, of course.

Answers underlined... again.

Once the SSB4 trailer comes out, I'll be locking this thread. (Not because of you, I'm just announcing it).

 

[Deleted member]

Once the SSB4 trailer comes out, I'll be locking this thread.

Why that? Wouldn't it make more sense to show people your blog once it comes out and attract supporters?

 

[Aurane]

Why that? Wouldn't it make more sense to show people your blog once it comes out and attract supporters?

Eh, I'm getting bored of protecting Victini all the time Lol I know you will, but I have some *new* things happening, and I need to focus on those things more then this. I've made my point, and now it's time for you to understand that there's nothing more I can do. I might change my mind, but I'm not sure yet.

 

[Deleted member]

Victini made it into the Top 20 Roster Candidates. Expect a thread up tonight and those who want to vote for Victini there can do so.

Also, Vote for Victini (and all Brawl vets) in here.

Before you get any bright idea, do not vote more then once on Shortiecanbrawl's 2012 poll. We need to keep the poll accurate.

 

[Aurane]

People, vote for Victini, at the VVV Victini Poll, here in Smashboards!