I've figured out how to use zair effectively, but I have hard time using rope snake on the ledge. Up B hard to cling to the ledge with and I have a hard time getting to the ledge and back to the stage quickly. Any tips?
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Using rope snake...
- Thread starter Onoh
- Start date
Lunacywastaken
Smash Cadet
I used to have this problem too. Now however, an easier way to get the tether to grab the ledge is to air-dodge beforehand and immediately z-airing afterwards. This usually gets the cling to the ledge for me. You can immediately do whatever you want after you grab the ledge then. For PK Thunder, I recommend you practising recovery angles in training mode. His recovery is difficult to master and it's easy to SD. Hopefully this helps~ 
Lunacywastaken
Smash Cadet
No problem~ :D
Lochy
Smash Ace
Make sure you aren't too far away, too low or too high. I would suggest labbing it yourself by going into training mode and testing where and where it doesn't work. Also here's a tip: if you are doing magnet wait for the magnet to be completely put away first before you zair because it will register as an airdodge. Also if lucas is in his tumble animation he cannot zair, he will do an aerial instead. To avoid this airdodge or throw out a fast move like fair. On top of that in the middle of an airdodge you can cancel all the add endlag by zairing in the middle of animation. This will stop the airdodge and get rid of any airdodge lag.
frozentreasure
Smash Apprentice
You can cancel into the tether out of an air dodge normally, is that different if it forces an air dodge during cooldown? If it's not, you could just hit the grab button again if you notice him dodging instead of throwing out the tether.
EarthBoundEnigma
Smash Journeyman
Besides airdodging, you can also psi magnet, to keep yourself from becoming too predictable, while stalling.
GooberGaming
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2015
- Messages
- 130
I've always wondered why Lucas would use an aerial when I would try to use Rope Snake to cling to the ledge. :S
Liloravioli
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2009
- Messages
- 3
I use the R+A combination to get the Zair out, not Z. Like that, no airdodge or aerial is possible.
Nohbody
Smash Rookie
the function of z seems to change depending on what your character is doing at the time. for instance I can d-smash by pressing down + Z, but can't upsmash using up + Z. Pressing Z as you land buffers jabs, random stuff like that. So dodge + attack is probably the most reliable way if approaching the ledge from bad angles.
Speaking of his tether recovery, there's about a 3-second period after getting hit that you can't grab ledges and that applies to tethers as well. If you're getting hit right before grabbing the ledge (or as you reel yourself in if you tether high) make sure you give yourself enough time to refresh your ledge grab before you try tethering otherwise you'll go through the full 59 frames of cooldown on zair, which can be deadly in match-ups where his PKT2 recovery can be easily exploited (e.g. Villager, Rosa, opposing Lucas). His PKT2 will never beat out other attacks, which can put you in a situation to trade with a meteor or get stage spiked. Also remember that PK Thunder disappears when it hits a blast zone, which is bad if you fail to tether and are forced to recover vertically upwards (or worse: diagonally upward from under the stage--you cannot touch the stage at any point during PKT2 because it will ricochet Lucas outward to his doom, and even if you manage to reach the stage he won't ledge snap until he's in special fall) since you have to take PK Thunder pretty far down to get the correct launch angle.
Oh yeah, also. Trying to tether right next to the ledge will cause the tether to fail and Lucas will have to go through a short cooldown period (haven't exactly figured out how many frames--it's the late part of his zair animation, where he just kinda does a little DK-esque "I dunno" shrug as he puts rope snake away) during which you won't be able to grab the ledge and will be in a VERY vulnerable position.
Oh yeah, also. Trying to tether right next to the ledge will cause the tether to fail and Lucas will have to go through a short cooldown period (haven't exactly figured out how many frames--it's the late part of his zair animation, where he just kinda does a little DK-esque "I dunno" shrug as he puts rope snake away) during which you won't be able to grab the ledge and will be in a VERY vulnerable position.
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frozentreasure
Smash Apprentice
On Z-air, it's been mentioned that you can cancel out of the early part of Lucas' airdodge into Z-air, but the airdodge cooldown will still be in effect if you use it like this, so if you short hop->airdodge->Z-air you'll still get an airdodge landing. If you're holding onto someone's thrown item, worth keeping in mind.
EmpireCrusher203
Smash Apprentice
I guess the reason I die so much as Lucas is that I suck in his recovery. I sometimes mess up the PK Thunder, causing me to fall to my doom, and when trying to use Rope Snake for my recovery, I instead do my Forward Air. My current theory is that when use L (or Z on Wii U) and move the analog stick I preform an attack. I found this out one day when by trying to do the short hop zair, I instead do a Up smash. This puzzled me, so I went to Training and tried it out over and over again. I would keep on doing Up smash (a tip to those struggling with Smash attack controls). So, I thought the reason I do a F-air when I should be using Rope Snake, is that I'm also inputting a direction, usually towards the stage. So, i guess I just press the grab button with no direction on the analog stick. Please correct me if I'm wrong because this was the case of my death in many, MANY battles.
frozentreasure
Smash Apprentice
Directional inputs shouldn't be affecting the tether at all, but if you want to make sure you tether when recovering, do an airdodge, then cancel it into the tether.
EmpireCrusher203
Smash Apprentice
Haha, it works! I tried out tethering without putting a directional input, and it did work. But I think canceling air dodge is easier to remember. Thanks!
underpowered
Smash Cadet
Ohhh... I was WONDERING about this (/ZeRo) because sometimes I'll try to grab ledge and do a nair instead and it's sooooo aggravating. Thanks!
Lochy
Smash Ace
The fastest move you can do is your fair because it has the least amount of startup and cooldown. Or you could airdodge if need be. Just choose some sort of quick aerial or move so you are able to tether afterward.
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Hath
Smash Rookie
Thanks for saying the tumble, thing, no wonder I would Nair. Jesus, that helps so much. Anyways, I also recommend just jumping directly before you Zair. It will get your out of a tumble state, it's lagless, and fakes out the opponent.
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frozentreasure
Smash Apprentice
Okay, I'm your opponent, guarding the ledge, and I just stuffed your midair jump when you tried to use it to tether. Now what?
Cancel airdodge into tether. Works every single time.
Hath
Smash Rookie
You shouldn't be getting hit. You should tether and instantly zoom up unless you're trying to edgeguard someone who is returning (Zair-trump to Bair guaranteed). Besides, airdodge to zair isn't as instant as DJ-Zair, right? Even after all that, you should still have Up-B, you're not that limited.
frozentreasure
Smash Apprentice
If you think you can't get hit while the tether retracts, you aren't playing the right people, but that's besides the point. Airdodge cancels instantly into tether and is always available, unlike your double jump.