Using Hydro Pump

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So Greninja's Up-b move Hyrdo Pump has a windbox (where an opponent gets pushed while receiving no damage or hitstun). I think we've all found this out ever since we got a copy of the game. And while it's primary use is for recovery, it should be noted that it can be used offensively and defensively as well.

Let's go through an example of using it defensively. Hydro Pump is actually very good to escape option. Say I'm in the air and a persistent Rosalina is trying to keep me on the air with her many anti-aerial moves, perhaps even get the kill off the top. Due to Greninja's lackluster landing tools and Rosalina's great anti-air abilities it's very difficult to land safely. Well, why not give Hydro Pump a try? You can after all aim it in every angle, you can bend the trajectory and it's not slow. If you angle the Hydro Pump so that Greninja travels away from Rosalina so that Greninja can land safely, not only were you avoiding potential damage but you may now be at a position where you can start juggling her provided you got there in time.

Okay so let's try using it offensively now. You probably have tried gimping an opponent with Hydro Pump before ver 1.04. Hydro Pump may not have the same strong push it had previously but that does not mean it can't be used similarly at all. Characters with mediocre recovery moves and option are quote vulnerable to Hydro Pump.

Let's take Luigi for example. He's offstage, burnt his double jump and green missile, all he has is his rather linear and not so lengthy up-b. Well that's a shame for him because Hydro Pump has pushed him too far away. So while this option is best on characters with poorer recoveries it still has use against characters with more reliable recoveries. Say Fox is charging a fire fox and aiming for the ledge. Greninja drops down uses Hydro Pump and it causes Fox's fire fox to travel to a position much higher from the ledge and since he is in free-fall he is completely vulnerable. However, this won't always work because the trajectory the opponent takes when coming back stage is very reliant when you want to pull this off and for that it is somewhat less reliable than fair, bair, shuriken, etc when edge guarding.

It is to be said though that while using Hydro Pump is cool to pull off it may not always be the best option. As with everything, mix things up so you don't become predictable. Also, Hydro Pump itself is a bit flimsy to control so I suggest working on getting a feel for it to start off with.

Tell me what you think of Hydro Pump. Were these tricks good or am I way over my head here? I personally think it can be used very creatively although flimsy and not really the best option. If anything it's more of a mix-up in my opinion.

 

[Coffee™]

You're on the right track.

In general Hydro Pump is a really underdeveloped move and has a quite a bit of onstage applications as well. Both defensive and offensive.

Also idk if you guys know this yet but there is a way to use Hydro Pump to send just a single bubble horizontally towards your opponent. Seems useful, just haven't gotten a chance to mess around with it enough to get the input down.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Also idk if you guys know this yet but there is a way to use Hydro Pump to send just a single bubble horizontally towards your opponent. Seems useful, just haven't gotten a chance to mess around with it enough to get the input down.

Ah yes, this is a quite useful thing to do indeed. I've experimented with it a bit. Really messes with people when they recover high and lets you get easier punishes.

 

[Ludiloco]

It really does have a ton of uses. You can mix up where you're landing on the stage, avoid potential edge-guards by recovering high with it and moving to a place unreachable before you can act (top platform of battlefield, for example), or you can just sweet-spot the ledge. And that's only its defensive potential. There are several matchups I believe are completely broken by Hydro Pump. What does Captain Falcon have in his arsenal to avoid it? Mario? Villager? Olimar? Ness?

Hydro Pump severely messes with the recoveries of almost the entire cast, and single-handedly turns Ninja into one of the best edge-guarding characters. Add in a back air that is really hard to tech after you're hit by it (four hits is very strange for a move, most people expect three or five), and you have an absolute monster.

Heck, it's even a pretty safe option to throw out when your opponent is in the upper blast zone. Most people don't see it coming and it's netted me a few surprise KOs.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

Also idk if you guys know this yet but there is a way to use Hydro Pump to send just a single bubble horizontally towards your opponent. Seems useful, just haven't gotten a chance to mess around with it enough to get the input down.

Bubble?

Heck, it's even a pretty safe option to throw out when your opponent is in the upper blast zone. Most people don't see it coming and it's netted me a few surprise KOs.

That's actually really true. I throw out a hydro pump when I don't have a second jump, close to the ceiling and the oppnent is not in range for an up air. Angle hydro pump down or if you want to get closer hydro pump up towards them then instantly turn hydro pump directly down. I've even got a few kills from doing this.

 

[MASTER719]

I can't get the bubble to go horizontal, just diagonal. Seems like you gotta be careful with inputs. HP seems to be more articulate than just 8 directions.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I can't get the bubble to go horizontal, just diagonal. Seems like you gotta be careful with inputs. HP seems to be more articulate than just 8 directions.

You have to be very quick and precise. Gotta get the timing down.

 

[MASTER719]

So what's the input?

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

So what's the input?

Up b -> then down immediately.

You know how Hydro pump has start up, which is during then that you have to input the direction you want to go? That's when you do that. I think the timing is a lot more precise if you're on the ground though? I'm not sure.

 

[Onyxsbayne]

Yeah, I have a lot of fun using it, but with how quick it moves, it can be tricky to perform some of the crazy stuff with it. This is probably the best thing I've been able to do with it.

http://youtu.be/Xjz-W1ReUFY

 

[MASTER719]

Up b -> then down immediately.

You know how Hydro pump has start up, which is during then that you have to input the direction you want to go? That's when you do that. I think the timing is a lot more precise if you're on the ground though? I'm not sure.

That would leave a vertical bubble, not a horizontal one.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

That would leave a vertical bubble, not a horizontal one.

Oh.
Wait, it's possible to just do a vertical bubble?
Well, I don't know.

 

[Kace Mono]

yea i've done the horizontal bubble a few times but i have never been able to get it when actually trying to. There is nothing i want more than to learn this kind of stuff but my experimentation just seems to be fruitless... iis the timing really difficult? the UpB -> then down?

 

[Ludiloco]

The horizontal bubble is tricky, you need to press Up +B -> immediately down -> roll the stick backwards in the direction your back is facing. It's a very quick input but once you have a feel for it it's not too difficult to pull off.

 

[Kace Mono]

Is there a video on this anywhere?

 

[Ludiloco]

If I had a mic I would definitely make a commentary video on Hydro Pump, because it's one of the best moves in the game imo and there are too many things you can do with it for there to be this little knowledge about it currently.

I'm currently working on a project for school, but after I get through this kind of tough week I will probably start work on either a full-fledged Ninja montage video or a write-up of the many uses of HP. I'm not an expert on the subject but we really need to start pushing Ninja's meta forward IMO. Amsa's going to be focusing more on Pikachu for the time being and this is an incredibly viable character that doesn't get the love it deserves.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

It's good to see all this discussion already on Hydro Pump. @ Ludiloco That's great! Something outlining the uses for hydro pump or perhaps other things will help people realise his potential. Of course with school in the way, we don't ask you to neglect your studies, that's just silly. I encourage more people to help create things like this to help teach others of what our character can do.

Moving on, I don't know if any of you have found this out but hydro pump does in fact have a hitbox. It does not have any knockback, that is reserved for the wind box, and only does 2% each hit. The bubbles (the spherical bursts of water from hydro pump) themselves are the hitboxes. Also, like Fox's lasers, it will not hit opponents out of free-fall. It seems it's only use is takking on small amount of damage but I'll be testing soon if this has any other uses.

 

[Ludiloco]

Well yeah, it's a very safe option to throw out at the end of combos to tack on a bit more minor % and prevent yourself from being punished. I find it useful against characters like Luigi and Yoshi who have pretty much an instant combo-breaking nair, to tack on a bit of extra % and put yourself in a favorable position for another follow up.

My question (if someone would be willing to test this) is if hydro pump interrupts two things: Jigglypuff's rest endlag and the broken shield animation. While Jiggly's rest end lag isn't long enough for this to be truly viable, pushing someone off the edge who has had their shield broken could be valuable. Though I guess Ninja doesn't really have a great tool to break one in the first place.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

@ Ludiloco Unfortunately, pushing someone off stage with hydro pump does not work when they have broken shields. It pushes them while they are grounded just fine but as soon as they are in the air, they are in neutral stance and can act immediately.

If Jiggly has whiffed a rest on the other hand, well you can get them offstage while still asleep but it is very likely they will wake up and Jiggly will be able to recover (I tested this on standard FD). It could to get the KO but you have to use hydro pump immediately, in fact I wouldn't even try it.

For both scenarios I recommend a charged fsmash since it will send them the furthest offstage (likely to get the kill) and get most damage.

 

[Ludiloco]

For a missed rest you need to just take the damage, but for a shield break I always walk into the person, pushing them to the edge at low %. It more likely ensures the kill.

 

[Poppy JR.]

I can't get the bubble to go horizontal, just diagonal. Seems like you gotta be careful with inputs. HP seems to be more articulate than just 8 directions.

I think you're right. I may just be seeing things, but when doing the diagonal "bubble" pump, it seems to be angled just a bit differently sometimes. The difference, if it is there, seems minute, but I bet there's utility in changing the angling.

I can't wait to see what develops on the Hydro Pump front. I'm under the impression at the moment that Hydro Pump is going to turn out to be one of Greninja's best moves in terms of general usefulness, especially as it is both a gimping tool and a quick, reliable movement option.

One trick I like to use is, when retreating or trying to create distance between myself and my opponent, I'll use Hydro Pump to move back. It's quick, hard to punish, and it throws out lots of wind and hitboxes to cover your movement. It's just an easy damage opportunity, and it's super simple to boot. The only downside is that you have to ensure you have time to start it up. If you're too close to your opponent, they can punish you as you prep the pump. You also need space to move, obviously, which may not be available to you if your back is to the ledge. Apart from that, I feel that this option is perfect as an alternative to Water Shuriken as a poking or disruption tool.