Using Aether offensively.

[Rango the Mercenary]

Most of the time, I see people using Aether two ways:

1) Recover low
2) After DThrow.

The second is a big no-no. You don't do this. Ever. You will flub it and you will get punished. Use Fair or Nair instead. Don't forget to switch to UThrow after 30% damage and make sure you gauge your enemy so you know when it will stop working or switch to airdodge bait into Uair. Remember!

Secondly, as for recovery, don't always go low. Watching Takun play with Ryo, I noticed how other players (Ryo included) will look for the perfect timing to spike you or ruin your recovery. If you're going to Aether back on stage, mix the timing around and throw them off. Do it in their face, just above the ledge, slightly below the ledge. MIX IT UP!

But to use it offensively sounds suicidal. Clearly, anyone good will airdodge it, or block it, and punish you right after. This isn't Fire Emblem, so you can't just throw that attack around. But there are ways to use it outside of recovery. Remember, this isn't Brawl. You have options.

One thing that has saved me from some juggle combos is to Aether after a Uair. I got juggled by a Rosalina, so I used Aether. I came down VERY quickly, snapped the ledge, and reset the neutral. You can't do this more than once or twice or you'll be eating halos up the ass. However, if your juggling opponent is directly below you, your blade may actually catch them into the drift of the attack and deliver ~20% damage right there, turning it right back into your favor.

The other is against enemies who corner you. You're not always going to be able to dash-grab someone while you're on the ledge. They will sense it coming. The same goes for approaching with an aerial or even a naked job. Do you sense offense coming? Get near the ledge, while facing the opponent, and AETHER! You've just thrown out a surprise attack that hits far enough in front of Ike to beat out anything, and if they're hit, there's ~20% damage. At the end of the attack, you snap the ledge or simply land. If they shielded, snap the ledge. You're safe from damage using a tactical retreat.

Since this is an offensive topic, I would also like to use this thread to further elaborate on a very clever tactic - Aethercide. At CEO, I saw Ryo deliberately use Aether well off-stage to suicide for the kill, landing him and Sol the victory in a doubles match. If you're a stock ahead, with proper timing and balls of steel, you can turn a match into your favor if you properly space and time your Aether for one-shot kills. However, I am no expert at using it, but it is certainly worth trying. It's similar to countering someone from the ledge, while they're on-stage, and dragging them down with Aether. Only that's a defensive tactic while this is flat-out chasing them off-stage and taking the plunge.

 

[Linkmario00]

Since it's a multihit, Aether could be used to snap the 1 frame you're vulnerable when grabbing the ledge if you're confident in the timing, and execute an Aethercide without the suicide. It can lead into very early kill.

 

[Zatchiel]

The most common offensive use of Aether, to my knowledge, is just using it when you're on the ledge while the opponent is near. It'll usually get rid of them, or drag them into the combo itself.

One thing that has saved me from some juggle combos is to Aether after a Uair.

I do this a lot too. You can interrupt juggles or edgeguard attempts (above stage level) by tossing out Aether, ideally if you can retreat to the ledge.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I have used it as an edge guard against air-dodge happy opponents who try to recovery high as well. If F-air walls don't seem to work, the Aether will usually catch them off guard and put them at a low enough trajectory for our better edge-guard options. (I usually catch them by throwing Aether out at a moderate distance and aiming back when they try to dodge through me, so they get caught in my return trip.) I find it useful against characters with extra jumps since you'll catch them higher than f-air will (like Kirby trying to air-dodge during a third jump to use the lift to get out of range).

It comes down to variety, as this isn't some foolproof option. I find it works well when they believe you only have F-air for high recoveries and you need to gimp them after their extra jump. It requires some conditioning.

I've also used D-throw to Aether against heavier opponents (Heavies or heavier middle weights) on stages like Battlefield when I want to apply mind games. I'll have my opponent slam into a platform to startle them into the air, and watch how they handle the landing to see how I want to strike next. F-air followups would have me land on the platform here (where our platform game for opponents below us aren't the best) and my opponent's lower % would have their arc after the f-air potentially too low for me to use my best followups (Aether after a throw works best at lower %s, too high and the knockback can work against us). I wanted to mention this because I don't believe d-throw to Aether is a no-no, but it shouldn't be in our top 3 moves to use. I'd say it's use is situational. (Much like most of Ike's moves. )

 

[Arrei]

An opportunity to Aethercide I'm fond of taking advantage of is actually during recovery, turning a defensive situation into an offensive one. If an opponent has gone over you to your back, either after a failed attempt to edgeguard you or while planning to hit you out of the jump, they are frequently in a prime position to be threatened by a backwards Aether. As long as you haven't gone too deep to make it back onto the stage when using it backwards, you can decide whether to back up to safety and damage them, or stay offstage and take both of you down.

 

[MowerDX]

Ive personally used Aethercide plenty of times but never while up a stock. I usually use it if im at high percent and my opponent is at low percents trying to edgeguard me. Also something to look for, with good timing ive been able to spike villager when he comes from the bottom while using Aether, if i flub a fair edgeguard ill use Aether and attempt for a spike while we both are coming back at the same time.

 

[Superfiremario]

Aether is a pretty good offensive move for me. Very strong combo off of down throw. I don't do Aetherside though because I'm not a fan of suicide tactics.

 

[PyroTakun]

After CEO I started mixing up the high recoveries and low recoveries with both Aether and QD and almost never get punished for it now.

Also using Aether in their face when just being off-stage by a few pixels catches people completely off-guard and you can get a good number of the Aether hits in. It also makes people more cautious/ scared so they don't edgeguard you as much as they should.

Win-win

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

After CEO I started mixing up the high recoveries and low recoveries with both Aether and QD and almost never get punished for it now.

Also using Aether in their face when just being off-stage by a few pixels catches people completely off-guard and you can get a good number of the Aether hits in. It also makes people more cautious/ scared so they don't edgeguard you as much as they should.

Win-win

It's how I kept from getting Aether-spiked or Countered by Ryo!

 

[XDaDePsak]

how do you aether spike people?

sometimes i do it to grab on to the edge of the stage and it takes the enemy with me, sometimes it doesn't

is there a trick to it

 

[GhostUrsa]

@ XDaDePsak Aetherspike requires you to get someone caught in the Aether's downward strike without you or your opponent hitting the ground. If you hit the ground, the final hitbox that sends them horizontally away is generated while if they hit the ground they get bounced off the stage. You have to be able to get them stuck in Aether, and be at max horizontal range to snap the ledge. The max range for snapping just happens to be outside the hitbox for Aether's downward strike, making it so that your opponent rockets towards the drink while you hang there like John McClane at Nakatomi.

 

[Wonderguard]

is there a trick to it

What usually works for me when I scoop someone with Aether at the ledge, is tilting the stick away from the stage on the way up (so you get a bit away from the ledge) but hold the stick back towards the stage on the way down (so you'd don't SD). Aether dunks on thirsty opponents is a great (and funny imo) way to end a stock early.

Also, I can't believe I didn't think of using Aether as a method of getting back down to the ledge. I'm going to have to start trying this out!

 

[Gawain]

Most of the time, I see people using Aether two ways:

2) After DThrow.

The second is a big no-no. You don't do this. Ever. You will flub it and you will get punished.

Lies and deceit! If your opponent is playing a character with the proper weight/fallspeed and they don't DI properly you CAN hit them with the full Aether. You don't even have to commit to it, you can just watch how they DI and respond with fair or Aether.

Aether nets you a little more damage and you look cool when you do it. So take advantage of it when you see the chance.

It works well vs characters like Captain Falcon, who have a hard time escaping it in the first place. I mean, you don't wanna do it vs someone like Luigi etc, but Sheik and others? Sure, go for it.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Lies and deceit! If your opponent is playing a character with the proper weight/fallspeed and they don't DI properly you CAN hit them with the full Aether. You don't even have to commit to it, you can just watch how they DI and respond with fair or Aether.

Aether nets you a little more damage and you look cool when you do it. So take advantage of it when you see the chance.

It works well vs characters like Captain Falcon, who have a hard time escaping it in the first place. I mean, you don't wanna do it vs someone like Luigi etc, but Sheik and others? Sure, go for it.

I prefer Fair because I can auto-cancel into a followup. If they fall to fair or land near me, I get to do it again. If they begin to retreat, I can chase them.

 

[NerfAkira]

please don't tell people not to use his aether for down throw combos, you look like a lunatic who doesn't play ike enough.

yes, its 100% useless the opponent goes over about 25%, however, prior to that, a number of characters are put into a true combo situation with it. and if you aren't using aether in those situations, you are just a bad ike.

off the top of my head heres a few that its a true combo on at 0%
Ike
Bowser
DK
Charizard
Captain falcon (im pretty sure, haven't tried in a while)
Gannondorf
etc

just experiment, obviously it shouldn't be used against light characters like pikachu and samus.

-----------------------------------------------

Side note: aether spiking is possible in two ways and one of them is generally easily avoidable by the enemy, the other can be a lethal move but will cost you your life.

now, due to the fact aether will always do the final hit and knock them back, its impossible to reverse spike them by standing on the corner of the stage. aether spikes can happen in two ways that aren't suicidal: catch them with a miss di as you are trying to grab the edge (thus negating the final hit and keeping the downward momentum) or catch them further out as you push forward towards the edge, making it so their DI is useless and they are dead. as a result of this its generally a bad idea to edge guard ike with none multijump characters.

the other is the ikicide aether spike, its decently easy to do and can be unavoidable in some situations, but it really is hard to do or down right impossible on some characters, as they can be knocked out of aether. this is by far the best method, and can be used after you take a stock (and are up to about 140) for an attempt at keeping the lead, or swiftly ending the game (you can't do this on level footing at final stock, as you die first always, no matter at what height its used) simply read their recovery option for this, force them into a situaton where they can't do anything to stop it, and then just laugh as they plummet to the bottom.

there are tons of other ways to do this one, one of which is super viable, and can be done with little risk when you are good enough. its a reverse aether ledge move, simply aether away from the edge, but do it close to the edge, if the enemy gets caught in the vortex style thing at the top, just keep it going and plummet to your death with them. however, if you miss or they get out of the vortex, simply hold towards the edge, and you will land on the platform and have to deal with standard landing lag.

------------------------------------------

more side notes, aether is in no means an unpunishable recovery, however, you can avoid counters, projectiles, etc etc, by learning the maximum verticle range of the skill (and horizontal) so that the enemy can't trigger a counter attack, and projectiles of all sorts (except for you pikachu....) will soar over your head.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I'm actually completely serious. Nearly every Ike who has tried this on me, I DI'd out of the way and hit them back. Using Aether after DThrow also doesn't give you the full benefit of a followup the way an auto-canceled Fair does.

 

[Arrei]

Yeah, Dthrow -> Aether, while a decent option, is not the end-all be-all of 0% throw combos. You can get 25% damage off of some characters, but you stand the risk of having them DI away. Successfully pulling off a throw -> Fair -> Utilt can get you 30% damage if they attempt to challenge your disjoint after the Fair, or otherwise you can chase after them to pursue your advantage state.

Oh, and throw -> Aether is very much not true on the Faptain, and he's a character that could really severely punish you if you flub it.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Yeah, Dthrow -> Aether, while a decent option, is not the end-all be-all of 0% throw combos. You can get 25% damage off of some characters, but you stand the risk of having them DI away. Successfully pulling off a throw -> Fair -> Utilt can get you 30% damage if they attempt to challenge your disjoint after the Fair, or otherwise you can chase after them to pursue your advantage state.

Oh, and throw -> Aether is very much not true on the Faptain, and he's a character that could really severely punish you if you flub it.

Every captain I played couldn't DI from it, and TBH I love to mix my approaches anyway, so have 2 options is good so you can play mind games.

 

[Arrei]

Well, I know from experience that it doesn't always work on Falcon depending on DI. Not sure if he has to SDI to fully escape it, but DIing towards or away from us during the throw puts him out of Aether's range. And I myself have escaped the combo a few times as Ike.

UThrow -> Aether seems to be more reliable in that he can't DI away as much, but DIing towards us still seems to work. That one doesn't always work at 0%, though, so it needs a bit of damage tacked on first. Had Bowser straight up jump away from Aether at 0%.

But yeah, more options is always good. If my opponent lets it happen, I like using it to de-stale other moves just a little bit in preparation for the kill, especially on the following stocks where it's likely a throw -> Fair combo will only net me 17% damage from staling.

 

[Baggy]

I land aether more consistently after upthrows. Especially on heavier people.

 

[GhostUrsa]

The only time I use Aether out of a throw is when I expect a medium or heavy opponent to try and air dodge back into close range. The lingering hitbox of the sword's spin plus the downward strike make it very hard for a human to time their dodges right to miss both swings and not get landing lag from touching the ground.

 

[goose32]

please don't tell people not to use his aether for down throw combos, you look like a lunatic who doesn't play ike enough.

yes, its 100% useless the opponent goes over about 25%, however, prior to that, a number of characters are put into a true combo situation with it. and if you aren't using aether in those situations, you are just a bad ike.

off the top of my head heres a few that its a true combo on at 0%
Ike
Bowser
DK
Charizard
Captain falcon (im pretty sure, haven't tried in a while)
Gannondorf
etc

just experiment, obviously it shouldn't be used against light characters like pikachu and samus.

-----------------------------------------------

Side note: aether spiking is possible in two ways and one of them is generally easily avoidable by the enemy, the other can be a lethal move but will cost you your life.

now, due to the fact aether will always do the final hit and knock them back, its impossible to reverse spike them by standing on the corner of the stage. aether spikes can happen in two ways that aren't suicidal: catch them with a miss di as you are trying to grab the edge (thus negating the final hit and keeping the downward momentum) or catch them further out as you push forward towards the edge, making it so their DI is useless and they are dead. as a result of this its generally a bad idea to edge guard ike with none multijump characters.

the other is the ikicide aether spike, its decently easy to do and can be unavoidable in some situations, but it really is hard to do or down right impossible on some characters, as they can be knocked out of aether. this is by far the best method, and can be used after you take a stock (and are up to about 140) for an attempt at keeping the lead, or swiftly ending the game (you can't do this on level footing at final stock, as you die first always, no matter at what height its used) simply read their recovery option for this, force them into a situaton where they can't do anything to stop it, and then just laugh as they plummet to the bottom.

there are tons of other ways to do this one, one of which is super viable, and can be done with little risk when you are good enough. its a reverse aether ledge move, simply aether away from the edge, but do it close to the edge, if the enemy gets caught in the vortex style thing at the top, just keep it going and plummet to your death with them. however, if you miss or they get out of the vortex, simply hold towards the edge, and you will land on the platform and have to deal with standard landing lag.

------------------------------------------

more side notes, aether is in no means an unpunishable recovery, however, you can avoid counters, projectiles, etc etc, by learning the maximum verticle range of the skill (and horizontal) so that the enemy can't trigger a counter attack, and projectiles of all sorts (except for you pikachu....) will soar over your head.

seriously? You're calling everyone who doesn't use Aether as a follow up to dthrow at low percent bad? That isn't a wise move, since you're saying Ryo is bad. Certainly Ryo isn't perfect, but if the player who is typically regarded as one of the best Ike's on the planet doesn't play that way, it doesn't help your argument.

 

[Ryusei the Falling Star]

@ XDaDePsak Aetherspike requires you to get someone caught in the Aether's downward strike without you or your opponent hitting the ground. If you hit the ground, the final hitbox that sends them horizontally away is generated while if they hit the ground they get bounced off the stage.

Dammit! I had hoped that you could do that without having grab the ledge. You know, just catch them trying to recover high with Aether and just meteor them down where they belong. I've been trying to do that for weeks, lol Thanks for ending my madness.

 

[Arrei]

Just to drive home the point that you have more options than just Aether... Throw -> Aether's a semi-safe option on some characters that nets you 25-26% damage but almost always resets the situation to neutral due to its ending lag. If you got the grab off a Nair, that's 34-35% damage off your first combo. That might work fine against some characters, mostly the heavy spacies, sometimes lighter fast fallers like Falco. (Still not guaranteed, even Ganon can escape with proper DI.)

But lately, I've been landing strings that are just oh-so-satisfying by choosing other options. When you face an aggressive opponent using a different character, who ends up being read like a book... it's a thing of beauty, I tell you. You get the Nair. 9%. Dash in and grab, Uthrow to 17%. You jump and follow with the Fair to come to 29%, and you are now positioned diagonally below your opponent. As a rushdown based character, they think this is a grand time to come in to challenge you, but they meet your Utilt for the trouble for 30-34%. Now they're above you, and they can try to fall away, positioning themselves in the path of a well-aimed dash attack to come to 44-48%. But it's still early in the match, they want to fall behind you and collect themselves in close quarters instead, thinking you're off your guard since you're currently in aggressive mode. A running Usmash behind you lowers your hitbox against their attempts to challenge you, usually a Nair, and fills the airspace with sword, bringing them to 51% off one string, AND they're still in the air above you for Uair juggles or one last potential followup. Watching that percent go up so fast, it makes a guy feel like Ganondorf.

 

[Routa]

I use Aether from time to time for catching landing foes. For example your foe is trying to land on stage and floating towards let's say BF corner plathform and you want to hit him. You could go for Fair, Bair or Uair, but thous can be easily air dodged (well "easily"). What to do? Well first you must know where he is going to land, then go under that plathform and use Aether just before he lands. And the lean back and enjoy thiys easy % you just gave to your foe. But yeah Aether is one hell of a great tool to catch lading foes. Also character that enjoy approaching with short hop anything can be cought in Aether. For example Wario likes to approach with short hop Chomp. Well all you need is to get the timing correct and Wario will have some nice % on him.

 

[Baggy]

Is there a technique to get the spike at the ledge with it more frequently or is it situational?

And does hitting with the initial swing guarantee the spike at the apex?