Uselesss thread

[leekslap]

So I very recently dropped Falco because he was too technically demanding for me ( multishines and pillars are hard )and my patient mindgame-y playstyle simply does not work with him. Falco took too much practice from my MK, but I still wanted a non spacie top tier as my main. Puff was too boring, Sheik's projectile and recovery are weird, Marth was too weak close quarters, Falcon too aggressive, Ice Climbers too... everything, Dr Mario's range is too bad, Pikachu too technical, and then.... Samus. The only thing I was thinking while playing Samus was WHY HAVE I NEVER USED THIS FREAKIN AWESOME CHARACTER! Holy chickens, man! I didn't know the first thing about Samus and I still loved her. And she's even better in PM where she has the best costumes and a badass ice mode.

So enough about me, if you've found anything you'd like to share about playing Samus, share it here. Even if it's basic for the record stuff. I want this thread to be packed with as much Samus information possible. I know the forum is filled with info, but it's all over the place and sometimes in threads that would be counter intuitive in terms of finding it. I'll try not to be a scrub and say something dumb lol

 

[pizzacato]

Samus has demanding tech, don't shove it under the rug and call it floaty playstyle.

 

[leekslap]

Samus has demanding tech, don't shove it under the rug and call it floaty playstyle.

I know but utilizing his zair correctly with airdodges and bombjumps and missile canceling on platforms( like on PS2 or Battlefield ) to spam is much MUCH easier than multishining, pillaring, and correct shield pressure with drill shines, multishines, and JC grab OoShine. I could've just been a solid MK and a lame Fox, so I wanted something that fit my playstyle and wasn't too out of my reach. I already did a ton of wavedashes to correct my spacing with MK, so the transition wasn't that bad.

I've heard that Samus is one of the strongest characters in this version. What do you think about that? I feel like her bombs should get used more. I use the bombs to cover options and wall the opponent out. I don't spam them, but I try to use it in smart places such as near the ledge so it will hit their up b and give me time to prepare for edgeguarding with f smashes, nairs, and bairs or even ice fairs. I think the ice mode is pretty underrated. It's been buffed slightly, but those buffs mean a lot. I catch people shielding the first hit of f smash only to be frozen by the second and her ice fair and up smash are great for kills.

I don't get the boost ball though. Seems pretty useless but it's just my opinion.

 

[pooch182]

Yeah, thinking that Falco and Samus aren't similarly technically demanding is a bad mindset to start with. You don't necessarily need to press buttons as fast (but in reality, you often times do), but Samus has a lot of relatively tight timings to perform things that are necessary for her to even be viable. Zair is worthless in 3.5 outside of being a jab reset, and you can't really be spaced to punish the jab reset after using it, anyway.

You sound really inexperienced with this character, which is what the boards are for, but you need to actually sit down and read through our bigger threads and absorb some basic knowledge stuff that we've already all covered pretty heavily. As far as bomb use goes, it's a very slow move, and so it's really easy to react to. It's good for interrupting an opponent who's already committed to a movement option (Ike is the best example), recovery, and edge guarding. They can be a decent mix up on shield, especially when an opponent is shielding on a platform above you, but otherwise their application is relatively limited.

Samus doesn't really look like she'll be able to perform at the level she could in 3.0, and her MU spread seems to have returned to what it was in Melee, with maybe a couple of buffs due to ice mode. If you're willing to play a very patient game with a solid neutral, you're in the clear to start picking up Samus. If you find that you can get over aggressive often, you might want to look for a different character.

Also, boost ball and crawl are the best additions to her moveset in PM. Boost ball allows you to move under projectiles at a good speed, while crouch canceling, and then attack your opponent. If you're in range to threaten a shield poke with a down tilt, you've got the crawl mix up, where you can boost ball through their shield, and then pivot grab or pivot f-smash depending on their choice OoS. It's an incredibly helpful tool for pressuring without needing to push a ton of buttons.

I feel like I can't agree with the idea that ice mode got buffed. Ice fair feels way worse, and it already needed to have a set up for, because SHFFLing really isn't something Samus does. D-tilt still sucks nuts. Up Smash is still the same old upsmash, though, so that's good. Fsmash seems like it got a bit more KBG, but it still feels massively inferior to plasma Fsmash. Overall, fire feels much smoother and more 'responsive' in a way, in 3.5. Either way, she got beat up pretty hard by the Dev Team, but if you play her in Melee and only use plasma beam, she could be passable. Her recovery is just utterly garbage now, as far as option selects go, which wasn't a problem in Melee or 3.0, so it's a really jarring thing to adapt to.

 

[leekslap]

Yeah, thinking that Falco and Samus aren't similarly technically demanding is a bad mindset to start with. You don't necessarily need to press buttons as fast (but in reality, you often times do), but Samus has a lot of relatively tight timings to perform things that are necessary for her to even be viable. Zair is worthless in 3.5 outside of being a jab reset, and you can't really be spaced to punish the jab reset after using it, anyway.

You sound really inexperienced with this character, which is what the boards are for, but you need to actually sit down and read through our bigger threads and absorb some basic knowledge stuff that we've already all covered pretty heavily. As far as bomb use goes, it's a very slow move, and so it's really easy to react to. It's good for interrupting an opponent who's already committed to a movement option (Ike is the best example), recovery, and edge guarding. They can be a decent mix up on shield, especially when an opponent is shielding on a platform above you, but otherwise their application is relatively limited.

Samus doesn't really look like she'll be able to perform at the level she could in 3.0, and her MU spread seems to have returned to what it was in Melee, with maybe a couple of buffs due to ice mode. If you're willing to play a very patient game with a solid neutral, you're in the clear to start picking up Samus. If you find that you can get over aggressive often, you might want to look for a different character.

Also, boost ball and crawl are the best additions to her moveset in PM. Boost ball allows you to move under projectiles at a good speed, while crouch canceling, and then attack your opponent. If you're in range to threaten a shield poke with a down tilt, you've got the crawl mix up, where you can boost ball through their shield, and then pivot grab or pivot f-smash depending on their choice OoS. It's an incredibly helpful tool for pressuring without needing to push a ton of buttons.

I feel like I can't agree with the idea that ice mode got buffed. Ice fair feels way worse, and it already needed to have a set up for, because SHFFLing really isn't something Samus does. D-tilt still sucks nuts. Up Smash is still the same old upsmash, though, so that's good. Fsmash seems like it got a bit more KBG, but it still feels massively inferior to plasma Fsmash. Overall, fire feels much smoother and more 'responsive' in a way, in 3.5. Either way, she got beat up pretty hard by the Dev Team, but if you play her in Melee and only use plasma beam, she could be passable. Her recovery is just utterly garbage now, as far as option selects go, which wasn't a problem in Melee or 3.0, so it's a really jarring thing to adapt to.

I have fast hands but I can't press tons of buttons really REALLY fast while still having to react to what you're opponent does. I? m still not done checking videos and guides and the forums here, so yeah I'm as scrubby as they get lol and I almost never get over aggressive when I'm trying my max. In friendlies, all I do is missile to dash attack lol JK

Bombs is one of those moves that is situational for anything other than recovery but it's pretty good in those situations. Bomb to jab pressure FTW

 

[ph00tbag]

his zair

:S

 

[leekslap]

OK, so I've just been through a Samus info marathon, and here's my opinion about ice mode, Samus's tier placement, and stuff.

Ice mode seems to give her better camping ability and makes her more of an aerial fighter. Frankly, I'm starting to think Samus is generally much more of an aerial fighter as a whole. The only top Samus who plays on the ground more than anything is Plup. He also seems to have the best mindgames but that's offtopic. You will literally see ESAM spam ice missiles until they are at a percent where ice fair or up smash will kill with some nairs here and there. Ice missiles are more reliable at actually hitting, and ice super missiles won't kill them at super low percents, but it's faster so all that equals better camping. I think both modes have their uses, but the point of my arguement was saying ice is underrated.

I think people are pretty used to 3.0 and Melee where the top tiers viciously destroy with broken stuff ( shine, rest, and Sheik's down throw count as broken ), but every character has been nerfed while characters like Samus, R.O. B., and Wolf have more than maintained their viability due to global nerfs. These characters were already extremely good in the previous version, but like Mario, they missed the broken mark( except Wolf, I have no idea how he passed through the dev team lol ). The difference being Mario is easy as breathing to play while Wolf's tech level is incomprehensable. I know Samus's recovery was nerfed hard, but they just made it from a free recovery to a good recovery, and you can still recover if you work hard for it( what the point of the nerf was ). Point is, whatever weaknesses these characters have is barely a weakness relative to other characters. Everything is relative, especially in PM. I'm not necessarily saying Samus is top tier. Just some food for thought. But seriously, Wolf is the new Pit. Expect him to win tourneys. Along with the Melee top tiers and Roy and R.O.B.

i like turtles

 

[pooch182]

She's definitely not an aerial fighter. She's got good tools for fighting aerially, but they're more built to stuff an opponent from trying to combo you (nair), or they require set ups to be useful for more than just defensive play. The idea of short hopping is to remove as much vulnerability as possible from your character. The longer you're in the air, the more susceptible you are to have a losing interaction with your opponent. Samus has the highest, and longest lasting, short hop in the entire game, and she doesn't have the best/quickest moves to effectively cover under her while in the air. SHFFLing isn't really a thing for Samus, because she just loses to faster characters. Stay on the ground as much as you can, and separate and space well.

Missile canceling isn't the end-all-be-all of Samus. Sure, it can be a really good means of pressuring an opponent, but missiles don't have the same priority as a laser does. They lose to basically any hitbox, and a lot of stuff can be thrown out to beat missiles while closing the gap on Samus. Learning to properly space f-tilt and jabs is incredibly important if you want to play this character, because she's all about quick, harassing attacks that have good range to keep the opponent out. As far as Ice mode being under rated, I disagree. People recognize its incredible utility, and most Samus players (especially PM background players) choose this mode as their go to. I've been using it against basically any character with a fall speed lower than Diddy, and it's really damn good against that category of characters. Ice missiles don't hit more reliably at all, I don't get where you're getting that statistic. . . and being faster doesn't equal better camping, I see no logic in that statement.

Plup plays a heavy ground game, and so does ESAM. And so does Chevy. And so does Barbie, etc. Watch a lot of film, really slowly, piece by piece. Analyze individual interactions with a Samus and her opponent. Feel free to PM me any questions and videos if you want analysis or help with figuring this character out in depth. I love helping players grow, and you seem very eager to learn, which is a great trait to have.

 

[leekslap]

She's definitely not an aerial fighter. She's got good tools for fighting aerially, but they're more built to stuff an opponent from trying to combo you (nair), or they require set ups to be useful for more than just defensive play. The idea of short hopping is to remove as much vulnerability as possible from your character. The longer you're in the air, the more susceptible you are to have a losing interaction with your opponent. Samus has the highest, and longest lasting, short hop in the entire game, and she doesn't have the best/quickest moves to effectively cover under her while in the air. SHFFLing isn't really a thing for Samus, because she just loses to faster characters. Stay on the ground as much as you can, and separate and space well.

Missile canceling isn't the end-all-be-all of Samus. Sure, it can be a really good means of pressuring an opponent, but missiles don't have the same priority as a laser does. They lose to basically any hitbox, and a lot of stuff can be thrown out to beat missiles while closing the gap on Samus. Learning to properly space f-tilt and jabs is incredibly important if you want to play this character, because she's all about quick, harassing attacks that have good range to keep the opponent out. As far as Ice mode being under rated, I disagree. People recognize its incredible utility, and most Samus players (especially PM background players) choose this mode as their go to. I've been using it against basically any character with a fall speed lower than Diddy, and it's really damn good against that category of characters. Ice missiles don't hit more reliably at all, I don't get where you're getting that statistic. . . and being faster doesn't equal better camping, I see no logic in that statement.

Plup plays a heavy ground game, and so does ESAM. And so does Chevy. And so does Barbie, etc. Watch a lot of film, really slowly, piece by piece. Analyze individual interactions with a Samus and her opponent. Feel free to PM me any questions and videos if you want analysis or help with figuring this character out in depth. I love helping players grow, and you seem very eager to learn, which is a great trait to have.

I don't think you understand what I meant. I was watching top level Samuses in both PM and Melee and saw a discrepancy in how much they jumped. For ice, the missiles are slower and go indefinetly so they cover more space and won't go too fast to miss the opponent. The plasma super missiles will send you offstage because they are so strong, while the ice super missiles won't end camp immediately. I'm not necessarily saying longer camp is better though, which is why I said both modes have their uses. I was never saying how missiles were unbeatable just that Samus might have a better chance at being good than last time, and my spacing has always been on par thanks to my Meta Knight. Maybe I'm seeing something that's not there, so show me some videos where PM Samus are grounded. And yeah, my parents practically raised me to be curious lol so just throw me information.

 

[Narpas_sword]

man, i just realised we didn't get 'hold R to start in ice mode'

=(

 

[leekslap]

Wow. Just wow. One match was all it took to realize Samus is not for me. I've "mained" Falcon, Tink, Falco, D3, Ganondorf, Luigi, and now Samus. Why I am so indecisive? **** it, I'm only gonna use MK and Marth now. I'm going to force myself not to use any other character. I will cut my hair if I use another character. I will go to my grandma's house if I use another character. I will eat my pants if I use another character. At least I'll have killer matchup knowledge lol

But the thread will move on without me. And that's all that matters.

But I'm starting to like DK... NO. I will not use DK. I will NOT use DK. No using DK allowed.

 

[Litt]

Wow. Just wow. One match was all it took to realize Samus is not for me. I've "mained" Falcon, Tink, Falco, D3, Ganondorf, Luigi, and now Samus. Why I am so indecisive? **** it, I'm only gonna use MK and Marth now. I'm going to force myself not to use any other character. I will cut my hair if I use another character. I will go to my grandma's house if I use another character. I will eat my pants if I use another character. At least I'll have killer matchup knowledge lol

But the thread will move on without me. And that's all that matters.

But I'm starting to like DK... NO. I will not use DK. I will NOT use DK. No using DK allowed.

People like you are the reason why people like me like to watch the world burn

 

[leekslap]

People like you are the reason why people like me like to watch the world burn

^Why I never want to meet Barbie. Seriously, you are ruthless.

 

[Litt]

^Why I never want to meet Barbie. Seriously, you are ruthless.

Made a post essentially saying our character is easy because of she is a floaty and that you could just pick her up. Samus is a very technically demanding character with great spacing, which you just dont have a pocket samus b/c of how unique she is as a character. Then all the sudden, nope Im outa here samus isnt for me... ggs.... :/ :? First you come here and insult the character as technically not demanding, then you just say screw it Im not gonna bother with her peace... get lost kid, stick true to something and dont be so wishy washy. Its not me being ruthless, its just me pointing out your stupidity.

 

[pooch182]

I mean . . . you do need to get it together. It's one thing to be curious. It's something else to be delirious. It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you feign such interest, but said interest is portrayed through ignorance and misunderstanding. It's especially hard to take you seriously when you clearly don't have the ability to listen to experienced players, and then don't even have the patience to sit down and actually learn the character at a basic level. It's really frustrating to deal with people like you; Barbie is right.

 

[Narpas_sword]

i think he thought she was easy, then gave up because he couldn't crack her tough outer shell.

 

[pooch182]

Naiveté isn't much of an excuse, though. It's pretty clear that he played like one game with her, and then thought that she's the best of all characters, without doing any extensive research, watching any videos, or even playing her for a few days or even weeks to see how she feels. To come into these boards with excitement and the will to learn from us is great, but when it's just some scrub who doesn't have the drive to even try to sit down and play a character for a while, I feel like I've wasted my time.

 

[Narpas_sword]

should have seen it wasnt worth the time after his first sentence here

 

[Litt]

should have seen it wasnt worth the time after his first sentence here

Saw it coming, read all what you guys posted, realized it wasnt worth my time to even be mean until after the scrub gave up and moved on, then was mean, but aww you guys are starting to become more and more like me <3 ;D

 

[leekslap]

Um... Sorry. I get it.

 

[Narpas_sword]

By the way you say you held off, it seems like you've become more like us =p

 

[Litt]

By the way you say you held off, it seems like you've become more like us =p

Hmm one could make that assumption, but they would be wrong ;p. Due to my presence here, I understood how much all of you for the most part agree with the stances I hold, and when a newer player like this appears, I could tell that the majority of you were going to give the answers I give to players like this (in a much nicer way I may add), and this player would soon give up because of his wishy washyness in picking a main, so all I had to do was sit back, wait for you guys to tell him he was wrong, why, and then I got to make fun at the end, this saved me time, since I didnt have to respond as to why he was wrong (proof in the competence of PM samus board players dramatically increasing, and was done in a way that wouldnt make me out to be a schmuck, all while I could enjoy the thrashing of some incompetent indecisive scrub) :D

 

[Litt]

I don't think you understand what I meant. I was watching top level Samuses in both PM and Melee and saw a discrepancy in how much they jumped. For ice, the missiles are slower and go indefinetly so they cover more space and won't go too fast to miss the opponent. The plasma super missiles will send you offstage because they are so strong, while the ice super missiles won't end camp immediately. I'm not necessarily saying longer camp is better though, which is why I said both modes have their uses. I was never saying how missiles were unbeatable just that Samus might have a better chance at being good than last time, and my spacing has always been on par thanks to my Meta Knight. Maybe I'm seeing something that's not there, so show me some videos where PM Samus are grounded. And yeah, my parents practically raised me to be curious lol so just throw me information.

Curiousity is only interpreted as the intention, when questions are posed instead of opinion given as fact. Sir you can watch all the samus you want, but all you can do from that is create correlation between what a player did and why, but never get at the causal aspects to fundamentally understand a choice a player made and why its tailored for that situation. Due to that, when you do make claims about what you notice when you watch top samuses, its only an observation and not causal at all, showing your lack of fundamental understanding to make any claim. If you are curious... ask as to why or why not, do not pose your correlational observations as immutable fact, and expect no one to tell you that you are a stupid scrub and to stop wasting peoples time correcting you on challenging what most players know to be relatively fact.

 

[leekslap]

I'M. NOT. A. SCRUB. AND DON'T EVER SAY IT AGAIN!

 

[Narpas_sword]

you came to the samus board looking for someone not tech heavy, then quit after one match.

seems pretty legit to call you out on being a scrub dude.

 

[Samuch]

This thread has troll written all over it.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Yea, we should probably just get it locked tbh.

 

[leekslap]

you came to the samus board looking for someone not tech heavy, then quit after one match.

seems pretty legit to call you out on being a scrub dude.

You guys don't even know what happened. It wasn't one match. But everyone assumes things about me. Yeah just assume I'm some stupid kid who has no idea how the game works. Assume I'm some annoying scrub who has no credibility. I'm tired of getting judged by people who have no right to judge me like they do because let's face it, a large portion of the smash community are grown men who have nothing better to do. I always find a way to screw it up for myself, and get misjudged by everyone. LEAVE ME ALONE ALREADY.

 

[Narpas_sword]

You guys don't even know what happened. It wasn't one match. But everyone assumes things about me.

you said:

One match was all it took to realize Samus is not for me.

i dont know how else we should interpret that.

If you want any credibility, you should probably explain things more thoroughly.

Perhaps instead of giving up, seek more help.

 

[pooch182]

lol. scrub.

 

[pizzacato]

are we mean?

 

[Litt]

are we mean?

No, you have just gotten to the same point where I was, just don't let it get past this point, otherwise you will become what is known as a KLit, and people like KLits just as much as they like ignorant scrubs.

 

[Litt]

I'M. NOT. A. SCRUB. AND DON'T EVER SAY IT AGAIN!

You sir, are in fact a scrub. You come to a place of discussion to assert opinion and observation as fact on a character you do not understand even at a rudimentary level. Learn to humble yourself, and ask questions instead of assuming your opinion will carry weight and validity in other places. You sir are not a high level player, you have zero name for yourself, and even if what you say is the most intelligent pieces to be contributed to smash boards, they will still hold no weight should they not be validated by a player or players that have made a name for themselves from both play and what they contribute online. You had dug your own grave in what you had posted, as laid out by the other members here, so do not get defensive when people tell you the cold hard truth. If you were any where near as knowledgeable or skillful as you claim, you wouldn't have to claim it and we would have all heard of you.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Learn to humble yourself

When Barbie of all people is telling you to humble yourself

You know you done goofed

 

[Litt]

When Barbie of all people is telling you to humble yourself

You know you done goofed

Lmao I learned to humble myself after I done goofed a number of times, but that being said, its also rather common knowledge of how right I am when I do choose to post something and; my experience, PR and track record back up what I do say. Where on the other hand, if almost any other person on here, posted the same way I do, they could bet their sweet ass they wouldn't be taken seriously at all ;p

 

[Samuch]

Where on the other hand, if almost any other person on here, posted the same way I do, they could bet their sweet *** they wouldn't be taken seriously at all ;p

gah, you were on a roll and you ruined it!

 

[Litt]

gah, you were on a roll and you ruined it!

But its not a surprise I ruined it, the surprise was how long I was good for santa :D

 

[leekslap]

But its not a surprise I ruined it, the surprise was how long I was good for santa :D

I decided to unignore you Barbie so now I see what I did was very VERY wrong and so people won't hate me till the end of time, I'm a Samus main again since Brawl got boring. Even with a character like Pikachu, who's supposed to be aggressive, it's slow and campy and I'd rather have Smash 4 eat my tech skill. I actually never stopped using Samus so yeah... -_-

 

[Litt]

I decided to unignore you Barbie so now I see what I did was very VERY wrong and so people won't hate me till the end of time, I'm a Samus main again since Brawl got boring. Even with a character like Pikachu, who's supposed to be aggressive, it's slow and campy and I'd rather have Smash 4 eat my tech skill. I actually never stopped using Samus so yeah... -_-

It was not very wrong bud, it was just wrong and you know better now, this board doesnt need another conceded knowitall prick, but I am glad you have come back of your own accord and understand what we were all saying. Welcome aboard and contribute what ya can ^_^

 

[leekslap]

It was not very wrong bud, it was just wrong and you know better now, this board doesnt need another conceded knowitall prick, but I am glad you have come back of your own accord and understand what we were all saying. Welcome aboard and contribute what ya can ^_^

Well I didn't mean it that way but yay!