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Useless moves? Maybe not?

EZえん

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
116
Location
Florida
Hello, I have been finagling around with link like normal but I had some questions as to if certain moves are very useful or not.

1) Fthrow and Bthrow (other than putting them offstage) - Are there any sorts of mixups or strings that you can start with these moves?

2) Zair (other than recovery) - This move seems to give you a LOT of aerial mobility, and I was wondering if this could be used in the neutral despite the small damage and kb. It's really easy to ledge cancel compared to other moves and its very disjointed of course. It also seems to break bombs?

3) Stab (jab3) - I guess this is the true combo ending of the jabs, but it also seems to be not worth it compared to other follow ups such as tilts or grab. Or does anyone know of situations to use this.

4) We all know the whole arrow discussion.

5) Laying bombs on platforms/ground. Are there practical uses to this or is it more just for show.
Also does anyone know how to consistently get the bombs to roll along the ground?

Side Note) How can you bounce Dair on people consistently, the other day I bounced 3 times on my friend's falco yet usually they just get blasted away or i run out of hitbox?
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,346
Well, the first thing I want to say is that moves have good and bad traits. This means that there might very well might be some moves which simply should never be used. Or, they have a very, very small niche usage in a rare circumstance. I do not think you should force yourself to use something when its clearly bad, but if it achieves what you need to accomplish then use it.

A bomb in a stationary location does little. It can be used to prevent hitboxes in that location or else the hitbox causes it to explode. Otherwise, its influence is very, very limited compared to a thrown bomb. I cannot think of any immediate situation to use a stationary bomb over a thrown one. There might be one, but I think it would be in the moment of improvising in your situation rather than preparing for it.

Similar with fthrow/bthrow. Uthrow/Dthrow gives you better potential than these throws. When Uthrow/Dthrow run out of immediate potential such as throwing people to high up, it would be simply better to throw them towards the ledge/offstage then giving them the chance to come down from up high.

I thought jab cancels with link were not that good compared to say Mario/Luigi or something. Therefore, jab finisher would be useful provided people cannot attempt to CC in the middle.

Random thoughts.
 

kingPiano

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
574
Hello, I have been finagling around with link like normal but I had some questions as to if certain moves are very useful or not.

1) Fthrow and Bthrow (other than putting them offstage) - Are there any sorts of mixups or strings that you can start with these moves?

F and B throw have too much comparative end lag to do anything really good even at higher percents; U and D throws are just much MUCH more versatile. Though at low-mid percents - Off stage B throw into jab pressure to eat their jump/Up-B and confuse them or you can grounded Up-B to catch them with a late hitbox as they recover for a crazy angle gimp.

2) Zair (other than recovery) - This move seems to give you a LOT of aerial mobility, and I was wondering if this could be used in the neutral despite the small damage and kb. It's really easy to ledge cancel compared to other moves and its very disjointed of course. It also seems to break bombs?

Zair is super stylish, but the landing lag is too significant for practical use. If you can ledge cancel it consistently then it might be good for disruption in neutral and on opponent recoveries. When I feel like swagging I often will run off ledge and back jump into glide Zair to mess with their recovery (often you can get lucky and eat their DJ with the hookshot)

This move could have been so much more viable if it functioned like a command grab and brought them to you just like a grounded grab.

3) Stab (jab3) - I guess this is the true combo ending of the jabs, but it also seems to be not worth it compared to other follow ups such as tilts or grab. Or does anyone know of situations to use this.

Third jab is actually pretty good and safe even at lower percents. Jab Jab Dsmash is really good or Jab Jab uTilt. I'm not sure about Jab jab grab, seems very risky since then can jump or buffer a roll and punish hard.

4) We all know the whole arrow discussion.

Arrows are good for interrupting lower recoveries then fall off Nair, I don't mess around with them too much since bomb and boomerang are better in neutral. YL's arrows I have more uses for since they have extra fire hitstun and do more damage.

5) Laying bombs on platforms/ground. Are there practical uses to this or is it more just for show.
Also does anyone know how to consistently get the bombs to roll along the ground?


Laying bombs distracts the opponent and also allows you to throw 2 bombs in succession - Pull Bomb > Lay > Pull Bomb > Throw > Z pick up bomb > Throw. Even if your opponent picks it up you are a Link player so you should be better with items than they are AKA you should be better at catching and evading them (and with a bomb in hand now they can't use their proper A attacks).

Side Note) How can you bounce Dair on people consistently, the other day I bounced 3 times on my friend's falco yet usually they just get blasted away or i run out of hitbox?

Bouncing Dair can only really happen at very low percents since the knock back scales too fast. In general using Dair at low percents isn't smart anyways since if you don't get any bounce hits then you can be punished easily (really though bounce only yields 5>4>3 extra damage and isn't worth it). I always try and keep Dair fresh to get that 22 or 19 max damage max knockback hit so I reserve it for when an opponent is in KO range. To get more bounces you have to start on a platform and then follow them down as you hit, for 3-4 they have to DI or not DI the move in your favor, also depends on weight and falling speed.
 
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ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
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College Park, MD
The funny thing about Link is that it's hard to think of bad moves that he has. His weakness as a character is really just his slow run, slow jump, and short wavedash.
 

RetroGamersGuru

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He does have great moves in general, but he has slow moves as well with Dtilt, Jab, and Ftilt. Up smash has a hard time connecting all hits while designed to be an anti-air option, and Fsmash's second hit has a hard time connecting as well. It's not that hard to find his situational moves. But I do agree that slow movement is the main problem rather than his moveset in general.
 

RetroGamersGuru

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Yeah, but I wasn't saying that he can only function within certain parameters or is only viable for this option. While bombs and boomerangs are amazing for Link, he has enough tools other than them to make the projectiles even more useful. Saying that Link can only function under one option is like saying that Bowser is viable due to Up B OoS. I don't think that is what you were saying, but I was just making sure. But those two projectiles are amazing for sure.

And now we have an actual thread. A conversation that is off topic. Lol
 

EZえん

Smash Apprentice
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Mar 4, 2015
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116
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Florida
I thought jab cancels with link were not that good compared to say Mario/Luigi or something. Therefore, jab finisher would be useful provided people cannot attempt to CC in the middle.

Random thoughts.
Jab cancels with link are pretty good, however you have to respect that they aren't ever guaranteed and should be used as a mix-up. For example jab-jab- turn around utilt is very good as it goes into juggles and it will cover any aerial as well as them not shielding. Others would be jab2-dsmash which is good for setting up uairs especially, jab2-crouch-repeat this works if they dont expect to keep getting hit and it is good to catch their OoS options.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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I just meant that they add so much to the character in terms of shutting down your opponents options. Of course, he has great tools aside from these, but they give you a lot more flexibility and control in neutral.
 

kingPiano

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
574
U throw > U tilt > FH Bair > DJ Bair FF > Utilt > U air

or out of that last Bair you can AC into a grounded Up-B

And multiple running Fairs or Fair > SH Boomerang > Dash attack is so satisfying on FD, on Battlefield I've been able to get ledge canceled Fair > Fair from the top platform as well. Fair > drop Uairs are pretty sexy too.
 
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kingPiano

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
574
I use the zair when I air dodge on stage and they're in front of me. They never expect it and it throws them off so usually a free recovery.
Yea, but then you are stuck in land lag for 30 frames while they have like 15+ frames to react and attack.

And if they attack you out of it you just lost a very valuable way to recover.

I have personally discovered something cool though: if you air dodge right into the ledge and then hookshot you will auto grab the ledge and you are almost completely intangible during the whole time.

I found it rather odd since usually when you are so close the hookshot doesn't work at all, and if you were just to air dodge right at the ledge you would not grab the ledge at all. I'm guessing it has to do with getting the sweetspot with the hookshot. I've found some success using it as another option when recovering (when people know the Link MU)
 
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RetroGamersGuru

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I don't think I've seen any setups for it any ideas of setups in these boards. It would be interesting to see, but it's hard for a Link player to figure this out when the move itself is risky. If there is a setup that leads to something useful like more reliable ways for pressure or just damage I'd like to know.
 

ChivalRuse

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Utilt has a lot of stun on fast fallers. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get on top of them with dair at lower percents after hitting an utilt...
 

kingPiano

Smash Ace
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Utilt has a lot of stun on fast fallers. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get on top of them with dair at lower percents after hitting an utilt...
Well it's not enough that they are just fast fallers, stuff that works on Spacies won't always work on CF since he suffers less hitstun. Yoshi, Mario/Doc, and Sheik can also be frustrating since they have optimal weight to fall speed ratios, and for floaties Peach and Samus have an annoying weight as we all know.

U-tilt > FH rising DAIR is a pretty common KO set up on spacies. Same with Dtilt > FH rising DAIR, the mid to hilt hitboxes work on floaties at KO percents and the outer hitbox works on FFers.

Also some more stuff with Zair - does anyone else do Link's "Zair pseudo haxdash" on the ledge? It's so fun and cool looking, semi useful for very long range damage but can be mildly unsafe if they get close. I have a feeling all this stuff I've "discovered" over the past year has been discussed and I'm just re-treading waters maybe but it's all worth a mention since I don't see others do it.
 
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ChivalRuse

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Yeah but Mario/Doc and Sheik's floatiness works against them too. Although their combo weight makes things less guaranteed on them, they get juggled like nobody's business. Yoshi is somewhat exempt because his double jump is basically a get-out-of-jail-free card.
 

EZえん

Smash Apprentice
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Yoshi doesnt have optimal weight fall speed ratio, he get combod 0-death if he doesnt have a jump or sometimes gets killed even though he had it. He's to floaty/heavy to be optimal

A good fox/falco/falcon/sheik/ganon can still 0-death yoshi regardless of his jump.
 
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kingPiano

Smash Ace
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Messages
574
Yoshi doesnt have optimal weight fall speed ratio, he get combod 0-death if he doesnt have a jump or sometimes gets killed even though he had it. He's to floaty/heavy to be optimal

A good fox/falco/falcon/sheik/ganon can still 0-death yoshi regardless of his jump.
Never played a good Yoshi have you?
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
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sweden
The stab can be used to launch people offstage for edgeguarding, it has better angle than dsmash.

Arrows can be used for edgeguarding certain characters like fox and falco(if they are using firefox/firebird), ness(sniper his elctricity thingie) and samus(sniper the bombs).

Bouncing with dair is dependant on DI, percentage and matchup, you cant do it consistently, you have the greatest chance vs fox/falco/CF at sub 10%.
 

EZえん

Smash Apprentice
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Mar 4, 2015
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Florida
Never played a good Yoshi have you?
I am a good yoshi myself...
Just because you're bad at the matchup doesn't mean that the other character has some special property of not getting combod...
I'm like top 2 or 3 Yoshis in Florida
 

Corona

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 14, 2013
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139
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Massachusetts
Hello, I have been finagling around with link like normal but I had some questions as to if certain moves are very useful or not.

5) Laying bombs on platforms/ground. Are there practical uses to this or is it more just for show.
Also does anyone know how to consistently get the bombs to roll along the ground?
This might have been said already, I didn't read all of the responses, but leaving a bomb on the edge while certain characters are recovering (mainly Marth, but this could feasibly work on the spacies, Samus, and anyone else with a hitbox through most of their recovery) adds pressure for them to sweet spot their recovery to the edge. If the overshoot just slightly, the bomb will blow up and pop them up for a Fair/Grounded Up B punish. In addition, though, KNOWING that your opponent is going to be forced to sweetspot allows for you to preemptively position yourself to counter which is a great advantage to have.
 
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EZえん

Smash Apprentice
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huh, thats interesting. you could probably place the bomb there and grab ledge taking forcing them to get hit by bomb and u can follow up
 
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This might have been said already, I didn't read all of the responses, but leaving a bomb on the edge while certain characters are recovering (mainly Marth, but this could feasibly work on the spacies, Samus, and anyone else with a hitbox through most of their recovery) adds pressure for them to sweet spot their recovery to the edge. If the overshoot just slightly, the bomb will blow up and pop them up for a Fair/Grounded Up B punish. In addition, though, KNOWING that your opponent is going to be forced to sweetspot allows for you to preemptively position yourself to counter which is a great advantage to have.
If you grab the ledge you force them to overshoot, sounds like a solid edgeguarding tool. I'll try it out.
 

Dextrose

Smash Cadet
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Sep 15, 2014
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Michigan
how consistent is SH bair into pivot grab, and also just to clear things up, i heard some of Links moves are auto-canceled, his FH bair i believe it was.
 

Thor

Smash Champion
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Sep 26, 2013
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SH bair autocancels and you can waveland out of it or double jump after it before landing.

Ftilt is his worst move - using spin attack, jab, grab, nair, dtilt, or fsmash is better basically every time, because the first 4 are faster [and spin attack hits harder] and fsmash hits much harder and is harder to CC. If they are grounded grab is better/faster and if they are airborne, nair or jab is going to be better, while spin attack and fsmash are just better punishes. I think dtilt is the same speed but it can pop them up for dair and has more range.

Ftilt is thus his only move where he basically should always have a better option [even those arrows are good against Falco recovery sometime].

PLEASE tell me if I'm missing something with this move [besides the disrespect value], because I have completely eliminated it from my Melee Link play, and I'd love to learn that it actually has its own use... because I can't find it.
 

ChainArmour712

Smash Cadet
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Oct 17, 2013
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72
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I'm pretty sure ftilt has the same range as dtilt, but I use dtilt and Fsmash instead- both hit a frame quicker which can make a big difference, Fsmash does have much better range, and dtilt sends the opponent upwards which reduces them trying to hit you back during cooldown. I'm pretty sure Fsmash has better priority as well, so Fsmash's benefits (range, knockback, 1 frame advantage, priority) are pretty much entirely put it above those of Ftilt (hitbox targets airborne enemies better, less time for cooldown).

My guess as to uses for Ftilt are for a few things- edgeguarding, fighting airborne enemies with a move of better range than Utilt, and using the move during a combo to capitalize on its faster cooldown vs. Fsmash. Nair does a lot of these things, but Ftilt has better priority and a disjoint to reduce the risk of a bad trade if Link is at high percent. It's a little faster than grounded fair, but suffers from more cooldown and less real utility due to less mobility. I use Fair and Nair over it in most cases. The problem of Ftilt is that in most cases, if you are in a position to use the move you have better options for either killing (upB, Fair, Dair, Fsmash) or comboing (nair, Fair, Dtilt, Utilt)

About the arrows, they aren't good but they are still Link's fastest projectile, and still an option. If your boomerang is out and the enemy is moderately close you might be able to surprise them with a quick low-charge arrow since a lot of opponents tend to forget about the move. Also if you have good aim you might be able to pursue an opponent who is knocked back with a charged jumped one, even if it isn't aimed great you might be able to throw them off of their plans to land in a certain spot or in a certain way. If they eat a charged arrow you might be able to get there in time to punish off it.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
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Oct 2, 2013
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3,097
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Kalispell, MT
1) Fthrow and Bthrow (other than putting them offstage) - Are there any sorts of mixups or strings that you can start with these moves?
f-Throw > f-Throw will not knock down characters on new stocks (I don't recall the exact percents for everybody where it stops working). Use this to catch people off guard and mix up into a different throw to keep them guessing. If anything else, you'll just give your opponent something else to think about, and anything you can do to slow down their gameplan is a huge boost for the avid Link player.

I'm fairly certain that the percent d-Throw knocks down will still leave most characters standing on f-Throw, so when you know your opponent wants the tech, go for that f-Throw. They'll come out shielding, which you can just get a regrab on (you will have repositioned them forward, which alone can be huge in more than enough situations). Depending on how low their shield is when you do this, you can probably get a free d-Smash shieldstab off of their tech-attempt-turned-shield which leads into all sorts of goodness for our boy wonder.

2) Zair (other than recovery) - This move seems to give you a LOT of aerial mobility, and I was wondering if this could be used in the neutral despite the small damage and kb. It's really easy to ledge cancel compared to other moves and its very disjointed of course. It also seems to break bombs?
Personally, I bust this out as sort of a 'last resort' when recovering. When the opponent has your other options locked down, and they're looking to punish your air dodge, start it up and zAir late to (hopefully) punish their spacing. You pretty much need to hope that they choose to combat you at your max airdodge range, which you'll cancel with your zAir. It's a risky gambit, but, you can catch some players off guard all of the time, and all players off some of the time. Just use it wisely.

3) Stab (jab3) - I guess this is the true combo ending of the jabs, but it also seems to be not worth it compared to other follow ups such as tilts or grab. Or does anyone know of situations to use this.
It can be used as a frame trap and as quick edgeguard setup off of your jab confirm. Good trajectory which lets Link position the opponent similarly to an f-Throw. Can spell death for fast fallers. In case anybody doesn't know, a frame trap is used to describe a gap between attacks that allows an opponent enough time to hit a button to start an attack, but not beat the next one you have planned out. Jab 3, when used properly, can punish shield-grabbing and other counter attacks on reaction to Link 'not' following Jab 1 and Jab 2.

5) Laying bombs on platforms/ground. Are there practical uses to this or is it more just for show.
Also does anyone know how to consistently get the bombs to roll along the ground?
Plenty of use for this. For one, other sword-weilders need to space much better against Link in order to not detonate bombs in their own faces. On top of that, this gives Link the threat of transitioning from his grounded pokes to a quick jump into a toss to approach. On top of that, more bombs means more control that Link can exert. Any opportunity you get to just lay a bomb out, do it. Your opponent is going to have to respect your decisions if you hang around that thing.

Think Street Fighter here. Your bomb is an active hitbox on the board that you can choose to propel at any time. Until it's gone, you maintain some kind of momentum that your opponent has to be ready to respond to. If anything, you can stand right on top of it when people decide to go ham on you. Once your bomb is in the air, the opponent has to respond to it in some way. And having a bomb on standby while you're laying out your own pokes is a huge way to force those reactions.

Think about it this way: investing a little bit of time in the short term in laying out a bomb and pulling out another basically lets you get two successive projectiles easily, instead of pulling > throwing > pulling > throwing. When you can put two bomb tosses very close to one another, you can open up a lot of pressure opportunities for Link, and anything he can take in the neutral game is good. Toss your first bomb, grab it off their shield and redrop it, double-jump back to grab your set bomb and toss it back again... I guarantee you that you're going to get a hit off an opponent trying to escape, or you're going to get somebody to turtle up more than they want to with scenarios like this one.
 
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squirrels4ev

Smash Apprentice
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Jul 16, 2011
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85
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Eugene, OR
I don't have comments to make on all of these topics, so I've omitted some.

1) Fthrow and Bthrow (other than putting them offstage) - Are there any sorts of mixups or strings that you can start with these moves?
-I actually made a recent post about fthrow in the video thread after watching either Thor or LLP's most recent video post. (LLP is Scoops_HD btw) One of them Fthrows a high percent Falcon towards the edge at a distance such that Falcon ends up having to select a tech option very near the edge. He also falls for long enough that Link has the ability to position himself to cover most of Falcon's options with dash>run>JC upB, or with dash>shieldstop>grab. I would only ever use Bthrow for positional advantage, and unless you throw someone offstage with Bthrow, Uthrow will give a better positional advantage.

2) Zair (other than recovery) - This move seems to give you a LOT of aerial mobility, and I was wondering if this could be used in the neutral despite the small damage and kb. It's really easy to ledge cancel compared to other moves and its very disjointed of course. It also seems to break bombs?
-I occasionally throw in a zair when I think it will be safe but it almost never is truly safe for me. I think edgecancel zairs probably have potential but I don't know if I can do them consistently. Ihaven't practiced edgecanceling them and I have an easy time edgecanceling Link's aerials, so maybe I could if I put a little time into it. I think a possible use could be (Link with bomb in hand on a side platform facing an opponent with center stage [ground] control) SH>Zdrop>airdodge away/down>edgecancel zair. It covers a lot of their jump options towards you but if you miss the edgecancel you're just a sitting duck. Moderate risk/low reward situation.

3) Stab (jab3) - I guess this is the true combo ending of the jabs, but it also seems to be not worth it compared to other follow ups such as tilts or grab. Or does anyone know of situations to use this.
-Lootic covered this already, but I just want to reinforce that the only use that I've found for stab is when it will knock your opponent offstage. I only go for it when I expect my opponent to not shield/cc, or have them in a position where they can't shield/cc. I find this most often happens when edgeguarding a Fox/Falco and you catch their sideB with a jab. Sometimes they will immediately doublejump (especially on Yoshi's with the bottom blastzone being as high as it is) and the only moves you have time to do out of jab are more jabs or dsmash. dsmash sends upwards which defeats the purpose of jabbing a spacie out of their recovery (to setup for drop zone nair edgeguards).

5) Laying bombs on platforms/ground. Are there practical uses to this or is it more just for show.
Also does anyone know how to consistently get the bombs to roll along the ground?

-Laying a bomb on the ground has negligible to zero use except when placed on the edge of the stage in an edgeguard situation against some characters. Something I took from (I think) Lootic was placing a bomb on a platform between my opponents stocks to distract them during their invincibility frames. You can light shield near the bomb and slide away from aerials or shield drop out. You can also place it sort of away from where you position yourself and use it as a stockpiled bomb for later. If you ever get the time to setup a bomb during a stock you can hide under a side platform with a bomb on it and it covers some SH aerial approaches with large hitboxes. It can also lure an opponent who is cautious of the bombs into a false sense of security since SH Zgrab gets the bomb back in your hand much quicker than a bomb pull. This can let you get some cheeky catches on opponents you've conditioned with bombs already. Also planted bombs will roll if you plant another bomb right on it. it's not really useful though since i don't think a rolling bomb ever explodes on hurtboxes it contacts, it just does that weird bounce that you get near the apex of an upthrown (not smash up thrown) bomb when it glances off the edge of a character and does like 1 or 2%.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
1) Fthrow and Bthrow (other than putting them offstage) - Are there any sorts of mixups or strings that you can start with these moves?
Yea they suck, fthrow more for putting them off stage, I have never really explored what else they could do. But a lot of times I have thrown people forward off the stage and if they have a double jump habit you can spin spike them directly afterward, same with back throw.

2) Zair (other than recovery) - This move seems to give you a LOT of aerial mobility, and I was wondering if this could be used in the neutral despite the small damage and kb. It's really easy to ledge cancel compared to other moves and its very disjointed of course. It also seems to break bombs?
Sometimes you can use it to surprise someone from mid stage and rack up a few more percent. mostly works on smaller stages.

3) Stab (jab3) - I guess this is the true combo ending of the jabs, but it also seems to be not worth it compared to other follow ups such as tilts or grab. Or does anyone know of situations to use this.
Gets people off stage a lot, third hit can knock them away and you can set up for an edge guard.

4) We all know the whole arrow discussion.
Eh.. you really really have to experiment and see how well it works from opponent to opponent but its true strength lies in low recovering opponents, because of the natural arc of the uncharged arrow you can snipe them when they decide the recover low and then you can edge guard because they will too far out, this applies especially if they have used their second jump already.

And the second use is sniping them when they are taking their time coming back at a horizontal angle, it usually knocks them up to the point where they may try to recover high, it is MUCH easier to snipe someone with a arrow than a boomerang or bomb.

Think of it more like Peaches turnips.

5) Laying bombs on platforms/ground. Are there practical uses to this or is it more just for show.
Also does anyone know how to consistently get the bombs to roll along the ground?
its only there to set up mind games, because once you set it down its literally saying "I'm going to grab this and throw it again in a second." But you can also do it just to apply pressure, bomb set, pull bomb, rang , throw bomb, throw other bomb. You can also gimmick them into thinking you are going to throw they other bomb and just grab them then CC the explosion and dsmash or up b them.

Side Note) How can you bounce Dair on people consistently, the other day I bounced 3 times on my friend's falco yet usually they just get blasted away or i run out of hitbox?
Bounce dair is dependent on percent and hitbox.
 

supa*

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
43
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Tokyo, Japan
I would think it would be better for Link's recovery options if he were to throw out an arrow or two while recovering high offstage. The added pressure of a projectile of an awkward trajectory like an uncharged arrow will make an opponent think twice about approaching the ledge for an edgeguard. If he shields, you have an opportunity to land safely, or quickly act out of ledgegrab while he's busy guarding or rolling. It's simple in theory, but when used in practice it could really prolong your stocks.

Also, I think it is more important to recycle your bombs than to do any stylish slides with them. An active bomb is much more commanding than a passive obstacle. Things like regrabbing a bomb off of shield will apply much more shield pressure on an opponent.
 
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