Up-B Windbox Angle

[Step]

My largest frustration when trying to edge-guard/gimp with Greninja's Up-B is when I hit them with it while they are decending, and my Up-B is aimed down at them, and yet, in direct defiance to physics, it shoots them upwards and actually assist their recovery. So my goal with this thread is to see if you all have done any lab-work with his Up-B and gained any insight into the windbox properties. Most specifically, I am looking for any tactics or evidence of ways to edgeguard with Up-B in such a way that it will NOT aid their recovery.

 

[Jetkick]

Just angle your pumps?

 

[bc1910]

Up B always lifts them up, like most if not all windboxes in this game. If it actually pushed them down it would be borderline broken (again).

You need to hit them during a recovery move for Up B to be of much use. This can push them up and away from the ledge but force them into helpless after their recovery move is over. From there they may be unable to reach the ledge if their helpless air speed is bad (Pikachu, Marth), or you can wait by the ledge and hit them with a smash attack as they try to drift toward it.

 

[Step]

You need to hit them during a recovery move for Up B to be of much use.

I see. In that case, I guess I need to work on my angles so that I can get back down to the ground and recover fast enough to catch them as they come down. I have had too many times where I knock them into the air and they are in freefall, but by the time I recover and run back to the edge, they have already landed/ledge-snapped safely. Also, in some levels, like T&C, I have knocked people up onto the side platforms, which actually allows them to recover even faster than I do.

 

[Crudele]

It's sort of character dependent. I have a friend who mains shulk, and hydropump gimps him, bad. Like bc1910 said, you'll usually have to push them up when they use up b, because then you can hit them a 2nd time when they go into a helpless state.

However, characters with slow fall speeds and/or high aerial mobility should be able to get to the ledge. Here's me toying with an olimar for six pumps (fsmash would've sealed the deal, but I like to have fun sometimes.)

I usually find it worth going for, it can net some super early kills (as long as you hit the ledge on a weird angle and fall to your death...)

 

[Spiralviper]

It works really well on characters that have slow air speed after they do their up-B. Like Mario, Shulk, and Marth.

I've only seen it work once on a character with fast airspeed (another Greninja), and it was at 300%. The windbox gets more powerful at high percents, right?

 

[holymario]

You can catch Falcon's recovery too. Its really hard but I managed to link his recovery fall into a meteor Dair right before he was able to grab the ledge.
if they recover low try to get them right at the moment when they activate their Up-B. the lower they recover the better since you can land on stage with the second direction input faster. (aim it down and slightly on the stage so you land close to the ledge to punish their fall.)