Understanding Sakurai's Roster Decisions

[TheBeastHimself]

After the last Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Direct before the game's launch, many people are disappointed with the newcomers (or lack of expected newcomers) that were revealed. I wanted to make this thread a place to discuss why Sakurai chose the roster the way he did and why he decided to include popular newcomer choices as assist trophies. To begin, let's go over one of Sakurai's quotes from E3:

"We've made including every single fighter ever our number one goal. So I'm kind of hoping you aren't expecting too many new challengers."
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After reading that statement, it makes sense as to why there were only two characters left to be revealed for the base game. However, Sakurai also announced in the latest direct that 5 DLC characters will be dropped on the eShop beginning in 2019. So when deciding who would be an assist trophy and who wouldn't, why did Sakurai choose characters like Issac? The development team new about DLC so even if they ran out of character slots (or reach the number of newcomers they were satisfied with), why did Sakurai and his team choose such popular requests to be assist trophies? Now of course there is always the possibility that some assist trophies can become DLC fighters, but that has never happened so if we are to stick with what we know about Sakurai's logic, the assist trophies won't get a playable upgrade...

These are popular characters that are now confirmed to be assist trophies:

• Waluigi (Mario series)
• Issac (Golden Sun series)
• Shadow (Sonic series)
• Black Knight (Fire Emblem series)
• Skull Kid (Zelda series)

Let's say for argument's sake that the development team wanted to include Issac. But, they only wanted 74 fighters in the base game, so Issac wouldn't be able to make the cut. Okay. In Smash games prior to DLC (like Brawl) it would make sense to add Issac in as an assist trophy. But in an age where DLC is possible, why did Sakurai still decide to relegate these popular requests to assist trophy spots?

When it comes to who gets in Smash Bros, Sakurai had a lot to say in the past about the criteria a character must fit in order to join the roster:

"We conduct a character popularity poll both domestically and internationally... There are a lot of things to take into account when deciding... Basically, any character is accepted if I believe it works. On the other hand, even if a character is unique, if they overlap with other characters and aren't unique as a fighter, they are rejected." - Weekly Famitsu, October 2014
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During GDC in 2008, Sakurai said there are four main criteria for characters to join the game:

• A character must display personality in their game.
• It's important that a characters knows something only they can do.
• A character must not interfere with game balance.
• A character will be rejected upon potential development issues.

So what do you think? I made this thread to discuss Sakurai's logic behind the exclusion of certain popular requests. Let's see if we can get a better understanding of why some of our favorite characters didn't quite make the cut as playable fighters in the Ultimate.

 

[Ridrool64]

I just realized why Shadow isn't an Echo Fighter for Sonic. It's Isabelle based, where Sonic's moves are based on his devil-may-care attitude and wild lifestyle, which fits Shadow in no way, shape, or form. Why he's not a semi-clone, on the other hands, makes no sense.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think Sakurai’s criteria post-Brawl is basically to include relevant/recent characters, then hazard a wild guess as to who might be popular with fans (he’s usually good at it) and include one or two of those, then if the roster allows it have one personal pick of his.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I just realized why Shadow isn't an Echo Fighter for Sonic. It's Isabelle based, where Sonic's moves are based on his devil-may-care attitude and wild lifestyle, which fits Shadow in no way, shape, or form. Why he's not a semi-clone, on the other hands, makes no sense.

Yeah that just makes no sense. Especially because DLC was a known feature in the game, why wouldn't they just wait to make characters like Shadow DLC instead of an assist trophy?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Yeah that just makes no sense. Especially because DLC was a known feature in the game, why wouldn't they just wait to make characters like Shadow DLC instead of an assist trophy?

Unless they're saving it for Tails or Eggman.

Sonic DLC would sell like hotcakes, and Tails and Eggman, despite Shadow's popularity are the next most important characters in those games being the deutagonist and the antagonist. Heck, last I checked Tails wasn't even that below Shadow in popularity so I wouldn't be that shocked to see him make it in.

As for Sakurai's ruleset...I feel it's outdated or untrue in general. Echoes pretty much destroy the "On the other hand, even if a character is unique, if they overlap with other characters and aren't unique as a fighter, they are rejected." argument which was a pretty loose rule even back then when we look at Melee for half a second and see the clones.

One of them being literally the same guy but with a PHD. You can't really get more overlapped than Dr. Mario.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Maybe Sakurai doesn't decide who gets added in DLC.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think Sakurai & Nintendo must have had a really big shock when they saw the results of the ballot. If they were probably banking on iconic characters from iconic and beloved franchises (see: Ryu, Cloud, Simon), seeing that the characters that probably did the best are obscure and forgotten (K. Rool, Geno, Isaac) must have thrown them for a loop, thus they figured they’d put K. Rool in Ultimate.

The next game might have more emphasis on the ballot, especially if they’re planning to cut a big chunk of the roster and want to avoid major backlash.

Another element I think plays a big part in deciding the roster is appealing to western audiences. There is a perception that western fans are drawn to ‘cool’ characters, and eastern fans are drawn to ‘cute’ characters. That might explain why Simon (cool) made it in over Bomberman (cute), despite Bomberman being arguably more popular as a Smash pick (ditto Incineroar over Mimikyu, and Dixie and Dee getting shafted)

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I just realized why Shadow isn't an Echo Fighter for Sonic. It's Isabelle based, where Sonic's moves are based on his devil-may-care attitude and wild lifestyle, which fits Shadow in no way, shape, or form. Why he's not a semi-clone, on the other hands, makes no sense.

I mean, Dark Samus and Ken showed that with the right work you can make them function despite different personalities. Heck Shadow has a moveset in Sonic Battle already which Sakurai referenced for Sonic so it is a bit puzzling. Why he wasn't saved for DLC I don't know, though I still hold a glimmer of hope that he'll be promoted way down the line because of how simple his AT is (more on this in the Shadow thread if you're curious).

I saw PushDustin make a good point that the demand for Shadow may have caught the team off-guard (he always had support but being an AT for so long dampered it until this game pre-Nov.1st). My hope is they'll take note of it for future installments (or DLC if we're somehow lucky).

 

[CrimsonFlash]

honestly, I think that sakurai wanted to please everyone with the base roster (including assists) and then shortsightedly decided to add them as assists without thinking about future possibilities, it seems as though sakurai disregards post release content as even part of the game which would be unsurprising given his background (I recall him saying he would never add a new fighter through DLC and he would never make us pay for new costumes(though that seems like an excuse not to make them))

 

[GoodGrief741]

honestly, I think that sakurai wanted to please everyone with the base roster (including assists) and then shortsightedly decided to add them as assists without thinking about future possibilities, it seems as though sakurai disregards post release content as even part of the game which would be unsurprising given his background (I recall him saying he would never add a new fighter through DLC and he would never make us pay for new costumes(though that seems like an excuse not to make them))

Or... maybe he knew Nintendo would decide DLC (or DLC was decided at the same time as the project plan). Hence, he knew many of the fan picks wouldn’t become DLC, and thus included them in other capacities (AT, Mii costume, Spirit)