Under used mag trick

[ForgottenLabRat]

So maybe everyone has already figured this powerful tool out but I thought I'd share it anyways. MagWave, or WaveMAG something like that. A Magwave is just mag wave dash back into something else, but there is a better way to do it, allowing for harsher follow ups. If you do a jump, mag, jump, airdodge diagonally back all with close timing, you will be able to get insane punishes including Upsmash even at high percents (Unless they DI mag correctly which no one does because it hits the opposite way from other moves making combo DI a nightmare)or another mag to continue a combo. Is useful, or am I just late to the party.

 

[D e l t a]

Sorry to bust your bubble, this has already been known. Pink Fresh did this a lot (still does). It saves a few frames to wavedash back due to the jump squat frames (double jumping in the air comes out the first available frame).

It's also useful for magnet pressure (grounded magnet -> aerial magnet -> wavedash to catch buffered rolls or confirm off a shield stab).

==

For point of correcting one little thing, if an opponent fully DI's magnet behind Lucas (correct DI), you can sometimes convert magnet -> WD back into a DACUS. I've practiced this enough that I can land the combo should I recognize the situation. My training partner has learned many tricks to beating my Lucas as I have taught him everything I know about the character. So, I just had to come up with something new for my combos to work.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Sorry to bust your bubble, this has already been known. Pink Fresh did this a lot (still does). It saves a few frames to wavedash back due to the jump squat frames (double jumping in the air comes out the first available frame).

It's also useful for magnet pressure (grounded magnet -> aerial magnet -> wavedash to catch buffered rolls or confirm off a shield stab).

==

For point of correcting one little thing, if an opponent fully DI's magnet behind Lucas (correct DI), you can sometimes convert magnet -> WD back into a DACUS. I've practiced this enough that I can land the combo should I recognize the situation. My training partner has learned many tricks to beating my Lucas as I have taught him everything I know about the character. So, I just had to come up with something new for my combos to work.

Dern, it's cool to know that DACUS works if they DI correctly. I'll try to use it as shield pressure and see how that works, thanks for the feed back.

 

[ilysm]

Though this does remind me of a question: what advantages does grounded mag have over sh -> mag?

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Though this does remind me of a question: what advantages does grounded mag have over sh -> mag?

You can act 4 frames faster because you don't have the initial jump frames. It's more than you think.

 

[D e l t a]

@ ForgottenLabRat You're answering for SH magnet > grounded, rather than his question why grounded > SH

My post got longer than I thought...

tl;dr for the lazier, quick answer: perfect wavedashes, JC up smash / grab / WD -> tilts, and consistency (no variables due to displacement from ground).
It's also safer especially at higher % (you won't lose a double jump when hit) and you'll have better ASDI down / CC compared to being airborne.

==

I end up writing too much and never realize it till later. Yet I suck at writing English papers....

Spoiler

Here's all the ways I can think of:

The most notable and relative reason grounded magnet is better than SH magnet- perfect wavedash lengths.

Yes, you could argue about the extra 4 frames to WD down and begin running backwards, etc. If grounded, you can WD back to tilts or grab. It also makes WD back -> DACUS considerably easier and reacting to DI. In addition, it's a consistency / muscle memory issue. Performing SH magnet has a few different heights Lucas will be at, whereas grounded magnet is always, well, grounded.

==

If you're at higher %'s and the opponent is under about 30-40% (defendant on weight / fall speed), they can CC the first few frames of magnet and retaliate with an attack that can send you off the stage. This would normally make you lose a double jump, but since you're grounded, you can CC / Amsah tech, or retain a double jump

Same situation only the opponent CC -> shields. You do a aerial magnet -> Uair. The Uair will miss given the hitbox is behind and above Lucas; the opponent is below and in front of Lucas. They can easily punish OoS due to the end lag from Uair and startup of any move from Lucas. Usually with a shield grab. It's highly situational and happens only once every handful of matches.

If you're grounded in the above situation and they CC -> shield magnet, I've found it easy to react to and simply start up shield pressure or do magnet -> grab.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Oops, sorry about that. Yeah you can get a shine upsmash if it's powered and they are at zero to get the easiest 38%. Maybe you can do a JC grab a pressure but it isn't that safe and be spot dodged for a hard punish. It is easier to do, so thats a plus I guess.

 

[D e l t a]

Oops, sorry about that. Yeah you can get a shine upsmash if it's powered and they are at zero to get the easiest 38%. Maybe you can do a JC grab a pressure but it isn't that safe and be spot dodged for a hard punish. It is easier to do, so thats a plus I guess.

it's alright. Do you know how many times I got corrected by Badge, Kip, and other guys on here? Most of my compendium of Lucas knowledge derives from learning from my mistakes.

At 0% or so, mag->upsmash is nice quick % if you can them off guard. I could see it working great on floaties. I like mag->grab as you have a more guaranteed followup and it catches opponents not DI'ing since they're in shield. Also adds a nice 7% extra from Lucas Dthrow as well.

I've actually been able to catch my friend, Revy (Tetraflora's training partner) with magnet pressure mixed up with mag grabs. Almost every time I've done it, he's said he didn't see it coming. It's a weird tech similar to shine grab. Basically, if the opponent likes to shield grab, then I'll only do shield pressure rather than mag grabs. If the opponent is like me and rarely spot dodges, then mag grab works well. A whiffed grab when the opponent rolls away is hard to punish and not doing anything obviously gets you grabbed.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

it's alright. Do you know how many times I got corrected by Badge, Kip, and other guys on here? Most of my compendium of Lucas knowledge derives from learning from my mistakes.

At 0% or so, mag->upsmash is nice quick % if you can them off guard. I could see it working great on floaties. I like mag->grab as you have a more guaranteed followup and it catches opponents not DI'ing since they're in shield. Also adds a nice 7% extra from Lucas Dthrow as well.

I've actually been able to catch my friend, Revy (Tetraflora's training partner) with magnet pressure mixed up with mag grabs. Almost every time I've done it, he's said he didn't see it coming. It's a weird tech similar to shine grab. Basically, if the opponent likes to shield grab, then I'll only do shield pressure rather than mag grabs. If the opponent is like me and rarely spot dodges, then mag grab works well. A whiffed grab when the opponent rolls away is hard to punish and not doing anything obviously gets you grabbed.

Cool, I need to work on JC grab as I am still a little new to Lucas but I'll try to use it as a mix up.

 

[D e l t a]

While I advise learning tech skill and mixups, learn to play neutral and work on solid punishes for now. I learned all the tech I could and practiced that forever, but I'm only now focusing on neutral and realizing that I lose most because of a poor neutral game.

Get better fundamentals first- spacing, option coverage, etc.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Thanks for the advice, I will.