Uncommon Knowledge?

[The Young Izzy Iz]

The purpose of this thread is mostly to help newcomers to the character by discussing advanced techniques and tips inherent to Marth that might not be apparent in other guides or readily available resources. For example: When/at what angles is it optimal to counter a recovering spacie instead of jabbing/another option? At what percents for specific characters are chain grabs no longer viable? What are his most efficient moves for stage spiking? What uses are their for neutral b? What are his lesser known gimmicks? Some of this stuff might go a little deep on the frame-data / "why does this work" / "how does this work" side of things and that's alright. With all that being said I'd be interested to hear what advice or input some of the more experienced Marth mains had on the topic? What resources are available for this?

 

[AirFair]

Is it alright if I answered some of your sample questions?
from my experience:
Countering is best used when the spacie is right under you. It works because usually, they will firefox up or at an angle towards the ledge. Here in Houston, I've seen Arc do a counter while facing the stage, so he can catch more precise angles to the ledge. You will have to walk out onto the ledge however or they will completely bypass the counter.
Basically, it is most optimal in that scenario, as any other angle you would have to read.

Guaranteed chaingrabs on spacies till about 60%. Usually, they can probably DI out and jump a bit after that. At 60% uthrow for a guaranteed tipper so there is a good way to end the cg. I can't think of any chaingrabs that have gone too far past that.

As for the last three questions, I don't have a good answer for that.
I would think that Dolphin Slash is a good stage spiking move to catch botched edgeguard attempts. I've seen m2k use fair for it as well.

Shield Breaker is a good edgeguarding tool in some cases. Situationally, it can catch people off guard when they put up their shields.

I guess one lesser known gimmick is that Marth's pre 100 getup attack from ledge can actually push people off the ledge when they try to recover. There is a link on my guide page called m2k's secret where you will see an example of that.

 

[QuantumKiller]

There is a shield poke on Fox's tail Marth can get on fox consistently with down air. It's not difficult to land and get easier the more their shield diminishes. In most cases it sets up for a tech chase into a grab or kill move assuming you get the right read. Here's a picture of a hit for reference, I used 20XX with no knockback on hit and freeze on hit.

Spoiler

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Dreamland + Falcon. Marth is blown to the edge of the stage while holding Falcon or dash grab Falcon and end up at the very edge of the edge. Dthrow Falcon. Rather than get thrown behind he bounces off the side of the stage. Can be teched.

On falcon in the middle of fire transistion grab Falcon close to the right side of the tree on the little slant. Pummel once and you and falcon will push backwards.

 

[QuantumKiller]

Dreamland + Falcon. Marth is blown to the edge of the stage while holding Falcon or dash grab Falcon and end up at the very edge of the edge. Dthrow Falcon. Rather than get thrown behind he bounces off the side of the stage. Can be teched.

I can't get this to work on the left edge, does it only work on the right side?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

It works on both sides of the stage. However, you have to be literally at the edge for it to work.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

Dreamland + Falcon. Marth is blown to the edge of the stage while holding Falcon or dash grab Falcon and end up at the very edge of the edge. Dthrow Falcon. Rather than get thrown behind he bounces off the side of the stage. Can be teched.

On falcon in the middle of fire transistion grab Falcon close to the right side of the tree on the little slant. Pummel once and you and falcon will push backwards.

Had this happen in one of the videos I posted to the Marth Critique thread recently. Can't remember which of the five though. Here's the permalink.

 

[AudioSilver]

Marth can use his attack from ledge to shove your opponent off the stage, if they are close enough.

Link to Mew2King's video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ClUYBhuHoqQ

 

[FE_Hector]

Poking isn't only fun, it's a really good option. Look at any of PPMDs Marth vids from Apex 2015. It's super useful if you can time it right.

 

[Smashing Turnips]

Marth can shield poke Fox's tail with Down Air.
I can't remember where I saw the Gif, but I'll update this if I find it again.

 

[QuantumKiller]

Marth can shield poke Fox's tail with Down Air.
I can't remember where I saw the Gif, but I'll update this if I find it again.

I posted it already but I can't make a gif. It's incredibly useful imo.

 

[Smashing Turnips]

I posted it already but I can't make a gif. It's incredibly useful imo.

Oh. So you did!

 

[Mithost]

It's not really advanced knowledge, but a lot of newer players don't know about the Side-B -> Up Tilt kill setup on floaties. What I was wondering was who is the heaviest character that can be hit by this setup? Does it work in the Marth Ditto?

 

[Smashing Turnips]

Does it work in the Marth Ditto?

If they DI the Side-B in, then you can connect it.


Another pretty uncommon knowledge thing:

If you WD and input a tilt before you can move out of the WD, your input won't count as a movement. You can up-tilt out of WD easily this way.

 

[AirFair]

Dude, wd turnaround uptilt kreygasm

 

[QuantumKiller]

The side-b stall can be refreshed from only a normal landing fall, falling with side-b/up-b (special fall? down-b doesn't seem to work.), or wavedashing. No impact landings do not refresh it so be wary of this when you're on the edge if you're trying to regain it. I don't think this is really something to worry about on stage since more than likely you're going to wavedash or empty jump once.

 

[FE_Hector]

If your opponent has to sweetspot the ledge, rolling up is the easiest edgeguard ever. Don't believe me?

https://youtu.be/NnQm3ThN6eg

6:15

 

[Ohsm]

Drop canceled fair for the extra swag, bonus points if combined with a shield drop.

 

[QuantumKiller]

Drop canceled fair for the extra swag, bonus points if combined with a shield drop.

What's a drop canceled fair? Is it a fast-falling fair? Just want to be sure.

 

[vexoskeleton]

What's a drop canceled fair? Is it a fast-falling fair? Just want to be sure.

its dropping from a platform and the first frame after you start falling you use fair and you end up landing back on the platform. It's pretty annoying to do.

 

[Ohsm]

its dropping from a platform and the first frame after you start falling you use fair and you end up landing back on the platform. It's pretty annoying to do.

You will only land back on the platform if you hit something in the process.

@ QuantumKiller
Here's an example of Link doing it and an explantion of the whole thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtiDd5cQWJc&index=14&list=LLPf8e7IQk6AGzffUF7SLRcQ#t=8m22s

Btw the whole video is worth a watch if you didn't saw it already.
Shoutouts to the great @schmooblidon !