Ultimate Tough Guy Armor Test & Analysis

[UltimaLuminaire]

Preface
This thread aims to compile the research and efforts our members put into Tough Guy and armor on the start-up of ground moves. Bowser in Ultimate has been gifted with consistent armor against low KB attacks such as jabs, and has a degree of heavy armor while in the start-up frames of ground tilts and smash attacks. With the game in our hands, it's time to test this armor against various attacks from the daunting roster of Smash Ultimate.

Spoiler: Character List

N/A

Spoiler: Notable Posts

Initial testing by Zapp
Continued testing by AuraGuardian

Spoiler: Change Log

Patch 1.1.0

Our work here has just begun. As such, this thread will be updated as more testing is recorded. Please check back later for updates and/or contribute at your leisure.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The Fixed Damage feature in Training Mode is a big help for testing this quickly in the new game. Here's what I have so far for Tough Guy's passive armor after a few minutes of testing. These were in a 1v1 setting so the 20% bonus damage modifier is being applied. In order to turn that off in Training mode, just set number of CPUs to 2.

Jab 1 (far hit) 0-5%
Jab 2 (far hit) 0-37%
Jab 1 (far hit) 0-77%
Rapid Jab 0-124%
Jab 1 (far hit) 0-7%
Rapid Jab 0-270%
Jab (close hit) 0-80%
Jab (middle hit) 0-87%
Fireball (early)0-56%
Fireball (late) 0-66%
Super Jump Punch (weak) 0-999%
PK Fire (all but initial hit) 0-66%
Rapid Jab 0-356%

 

[AuraGuardian]

Ice Climbers:
Icicle (Nuetral B)
Close hit Box (8.4%)
0-14% Both hits
0-22% One hit
Mid Range (~4%)
0-23% Both Hits
0-27% One hit
Long Range (~3.3%)
0-28% Both Hits
0-32% One hit

Sheik
Rapid Jab 0-209%

Zelda
Rapid Jab 0-320%

Dr Mario
Far Jab 1 0-88%
Far Jab 2 0-36%
Far Jab 1 to 2 0-29%

Falco
Rapid Jab 0-501%

Marth/ Lucina/ Roy/ Chrom
Dancing Blade Down Multi hit
0-271% Every hit till the final hit
At 272%, can only take 3 hits
At 275%, can only take 2 hits
At 279%, can only take 1 hit

Young Link
Rapid Jab 0-403%

Mr Game and Watch
Rapid Jab 0-101%
BAir Can only Tough Guy 2 hits at 0%. At 2%, can only Tough Guy 1 hit.

Meta Knight
Rapid Jab 0-66%

Pit/Dark Pit
Rapid Jab 0-617%

Zero Suit Samus
Far Jab 1 0-127%
NOTE: Tough Guy seems rather inconsistent for this as there were times Bowser was still flinched.

Ivysaur
Rapid Jab 0-147%
NAir 0-55%
F-Tilt At 0%, can take 5 hits. At 2%, can take 4 hits. At 4%, 3 hits. At 6%, 2 hits. At 8%, 1 hit.

King Dedede
Rapid Jab 0-494%
NOTE: When at 389% from the reset position in Training, when getting hit after Jab 2 to multi hit, Bowser was noted to flinch during some of the multi hit before the Tough Guy kicked in.

Toon Link
Uncharged Arrow 0-7% At most, Tough Guy can tank an arrow charge as long it deals only around 8%. Any more breaks Tough Guy.

Villager
Jab 1 Far 0-122%
Jab 2 Far 0-10%

Mega Man
Long range to Mid Range Lemon 0-384%
NOTE: During Testing, around the +200% range, I had times where the Tough Guy didn't work, but then came back to work. But with out a doubt, the Tough Guy stops at 384%.
Crash Bomber 0-6% for first four hits; 7% for first 3 hits; 8% for first 2 hits; 9% for 1 hit. Stops at 10%

Little Mac
Rapid Jab 0-297%

Greninja
Water Shuriken No charge 0-3%
BAir Can only Tough Guy 1 hit. At 0%, can take the first hit. At 1%, can take the second hit of Bair, but not the first.
Rapid Jab 0-617%

Palutena
Rapid Jab 0-174%

Robin
Rapid Jab 0-384%

Shulk
Buster Far Jab 1 0-100%
NOTE: Testing found this Tough Guy Armor to be very inconsistent.

Bowser Jr.
Rapid Jab 0-617%

Duck Hunt
Rapid Jab Close Range 0-13%
Rapid Jab Long Rang 0-362%

Ryu
Shakunetsu Hadoken 0-330% till the final hit.
At 331%, can only take the first 3 hits.
At 333% can only take first 2.
At 334% can only take the first hit.

Corrin
Rapid Jab (180%)

Bayonetta
Uncharged Bullets (121%)
Rapid Jab (205%)

Inkling
1st hit of Up Air 0-1%.
NOTE: Testing shows that this may be distance based. Probably the farthest the hit will attack.
Rapid Jab 0-712%

Ridley
Rapid Jab Far 0-570%
Rapid Jab Close 0-322%
NOTE: If the multi Jab is held too long, Bowser can shift to be in the far range of the attack, reactivating Tough Guy.

Simon/Richter
Holy Water Fire Pillar 0-131%
Rapid Jab 0-617%

Mii Brawler
Multi Jab 0-281%

 

[AuraGuardian]

I would like to note that if people want to, perhaps test out Ryu and Ken some more. Though I did my best, I am terrible at their inputs and couldn't fully test them all the way.

 

[JOE!]

Being new to Tough Guy, how exactly does it work? Ive noticed online that sometimes a character can rapid jab me then I can suddenly just jab back. Is it just always-on weak armor?

 

[Arrei]

At least in Smash 4, it was always-present armor that negated flinching from any attack that dealt less than a specific amount of knockback, which means it loses effectiveness as Bowser takes more damage or as the opponent gains rage. The types of attacks it could actually stop were usually limited to flurry attacks or exceptionally weak attacks like Luigi's fireballs, though, but it seems like its threshold has been buffed to be able to shrug off a few more low-damage attacks.

 

[S_B]

Do we have anything conclusive on when this mysterious armor on Bowser's tilts and smashes activates?

The hint says he has super armor on startup but I've yet to see it in action.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The attack armor is knockback based, meaning it will eventually wear out like Tough Guy does if Bowser's damage percent is high enough. For one example off the top of my head, You can't Utilt through Sheik's F-air after around 85%. But you can probably tilt through the puniest of jabs or projectiles forever since it's a much higher knockback threshold than Tough Guy is. I have no idea if the knockback threshold is the same on all moves, but I at least have the frames they activate.

F-Tilt frame 7-9
U-Tilt frame 8-10
D-Tilt frame 7-9
F-Smash 17-19. The attack is still invincible from the front on frame 20-25.
U-Smash 11-13 and 28-31. In other words, three frames before and four frames after his invincibility period
D-Smash 5-11.

 

[Darches]

Does tough guy only work while Bowser stands still? Perhaps this is just an extension of tough guy, with the same effect but at new times?

It sounds like it works to improve Bowser's trading capability, artificially improving his frame data in rare scenarios. Rare but powerful effect, as trading is far superior to getting attack-canceled and inevitably combo'd.

 

[Kerthorok]

Does tough guy only work while Bowser stands still? Perhaps this is just an extension of tough guy, with the same effect but at new times?

It sounds like it works to improve Bowser's trading capability, artificially improving his frame data in rare scenarios. Rare but powerful effect, as trading is far superior to getting attack-canceled and inevitably combo'd.

No, Tough Guy is on all of Bowser's animations.

 

[S_B]

Here's an example of SA on fsmash that I managed to trigger:

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

There seems to be some confusion on the mechanics of Tough Guy so here's a recap.

• Tough Guy armor is always active. Bowser does not have to be in the middle of an attack or on the ground. He can armor moves in the air, he can armor moves anywhere.
• Crouching does affect the range at which moves are armored passively, as an indirect result of any character taking reduced knockback from attacks when crouching. Bowser gains this benefit from the first frame of crouching, but will lose it the moment he begins crawling or performs an attack. We tend to consider crouching a moot point, because although crouching is a frame 1 action, so is shield. And you shouldn't take needless damage.
• Since tough guy armor is based on knockback, then that means stale move negation and rage are also a factor. A fresh attack will have less odds of being armored while a staled attack will have more odds. And the opponent having rage will always alter the range at which Bowser can armor attacks

Anyway, Kurogane has shed some light on the new armor for tilts and smashes. It is actually not knockback based as I suspected, but damage based. The proposed damage thresholds are:

• 4% on tilts
• 8% on Usmash and Dsmash
• 10% on Fsmash

I went into training mode and confirmed this by Utilting through Cloud's Finishing Touch, which has insanely high knockback but only 1% base damage. So unlike Tough Guy, this armor will never shut off as Bowser takes more damage. There is no need to test which moves can be armored and at what ranges. The armor also takes into account the 1v1 damage modifier just like Tough Guy. So if a 4% damage attack deals 4.8% as a result of the modifier, Bowser will still armor it.

 

[S_B]

There seems to be some confusion on the mechanics of Tough Guy so here's a recap.

• Tough Guy armor is always active. Bowser does not have to be in the middle of an attack or on the ground. He can armor moves in the air, he can armor moves anywhere.
• Crouching does affect the range at which moves are armored passively, as an indirect result of any character taking reduced knockback from attacks when crouching. Bowser gains this benefit from the first frame of crouching, but will lose it the moment he begins crawling or performs an attack. We tend to consider crouching a moot point, because although crouching is a frame 1 action, so is shield. And you shouldn't take needless damage.
• Since tough guy armor is based on knockback, then that means stale move negation and rage are also a factor. A fresh attack will have less odds of being armored while a staled attack will have more odds. And the opponent having rage will always alter the range at which Bowser can armor attacks

Anyway, Kurogane has shed some light on the new armor for tilts and smashes. It is actually not knockback based as I suspected, but damage based. The proposed damage thresholds are:

• 4% on tilts
• 8% on Usmash and Dsmash
• 10% on Fsmash

I went into training mode and confirmed this by Utilting through Cloud's Finishing Touch, which has insanely high knockback but only 1% base damage. So unlike Tough Guy, this armor will never shut off as Bowser takes more damage. There is no need to test which moves can be armored and at what ranges. The armor also takes into account the 1v1 damage modifier just like Tough Guy. So if a 4% damage attack deals 4.8% as a result of the modifier, Bowser will still armor it.

Ah, being % based makes sense. In the video above, I took ~9% and armored through it on fsmash.

Question is, do these thresholds grow if Bowser charges the attack?

 

[Luigi player]

Here's what I got for Bowser as far as armor and invincibility goes (there are some heavy armor frames different than what was posted before).
The "?" for dair intangibility is because I can't confirm it by looking at Bowser since it looks weird when his arms and legs are tucked into the shell, but Kuroganehammer has it listed as "arms and legs intangible" so that's probably how it is. I also didn't test the %s for the heavy armor, only the armor frames.

blue = intangible
lime = invincible
brown-red = heavy armor

Bowser:

"Though Guy"-armor: always active, knockback based

shield-start (1: head, 3-5: arm)
jab1 (7-8: arm)
jab2 (10-12: arm)
ftilt (10-14: arm | 7-9: (damage based: 4% -- 1v1: 4.8%))
utilt (11-16: arm | 8-10: (damage based: 4% -- 1v1: 4.8%))
dtilt (10-12, 15-17: attacking arm | 7-17: (damage based: 4% -- 1v1: 4.8%))
fsmash (17-21: (damage based: 10% -- 1v1: 12%) | 20-25: feet)
usmash (14-27: shell | 11-31: (damage based: 8% -- 1v1: 9.6%))
dsmash (5-11: (damage based: 8% -- 1v1: 9.6%))
uair (3-13: head)
dair (14-60: arms+legs?; landing: 1-27: arms+legs?)
sideB (when grabbing someone: 1-23)