Trouble with an aggressive Sheik

[finalcloud13]

Hi guys I'd appreciate some advice for my Falco because I lose a lot to my friend's aggressive Sheik. Here's some info:

I can't stop getting combo'd like a mofo by him. He uses downthrows or dash attacks to start combos and my Falco won't touch the ground until he's gotten about 40% on me.

Speaking of downthrow, I'm having a hell of a time against it. Teching either direction or in place doesn't help; he grabs me and downthrows me again. If I try to just hit the floor and get up with a kick he shields and grabs me out of that. Also, if I don't tech he combos into a bunch of tilts that ***** my % so badly.

I also get dinked quite nicely by him. He spams needles when I'm off the edge and if I manage to get in range for a Firebird from an area below the edge, he Dsmashes me. Is there any safe way to get back onto the stage?

He's aggressive; He's always charging at me and there's not really anything I can do to stop him.

So, is there any advice for me? I know how to wavedash, but I never use it except to edgeguard. I SHL whenever there's distance, though I'm not good enough with it to consistently get it low. What else, I can SHFFL and do try to use the Dair + Shine but it's hard to combo Sheik with it so I usually manage to only get the Dair, Shine and a Bair on him, not to mention that I can't even get the combo to start with pretty often because he jumps around quite a lot.

Appreciate it guys.

 

[Gnes]

Hard to combo sheik....no sir....improve your SHL skill and your shine-dair combos...u know it seems like the person is grab spammer...just dodge-shine-and start the combos....also sheiks dash attack is easily crouch cancelled into whatever(shine) or you should shield grab...it really helps to cut that sheik speed down with SHL spam....Oh yeah the edge problem...sweetspot everytime to prevent gimps....edgeguarding is the easiest way for sheik to kill falco though

 

[Oskurito]

Use shl to stop him.... try dair>shine>uptilt>dair>shine>dair>tech chase > f-smash lol

Sheik tech chasing game *****, but your answer is to tech wisely and dont get grabed (seriously) ways to not get grabbed are: dominating your oponent and keep puting pressure on him with lasers, pillars, combos, etc. Remember to shuffl perfectly when trying to pillar, that way you wont get grabbed too much. Also, keep in mind the laser>shine aproach, if you notice she's shielding too much against lasers then go with laser>grab> f-throw. F-throw set ups for tech chasing game, basically f-throw and guess with shl or rshl (if you hit her with laser while she's on the ground it would prevent her from teching away and her only answer can be stand up or stand and attack) shieldgrab/grab or jab after laser then > shine if you prefer. Sheik gets seriously ***** on platforms if you know the tricks and combos...

 

[finalcloud13]

I think I need to work a lot on my pillar. I can only do it coming down from a full jump straight above the opponent. I need to learn to do it with a running short hop, but the timing for the SHFFL is much harder lol.

And should dash attack be replaced by running Nair? Also, what is sweetspotting?

 

[Oskurito]

I think I need to work a lot on my pillar. I can only do it coming down from a full jump straight above the opponent. I need to learn to do it with a running short hop, but the timing for the SHFFL is much harder lol.

And should dash attack be replaced by running Nair? Also, what is sweetspotting?

lol shuffl isnt harder, if its harder for you then just keep practicing. Remember that the timing against shields is quite different from a normal pillar. If you can't run short hop > aerial thats a serious problem -.-' and dash attack shouldn't be replaced with nair all the times, imo dash attack is good while comboing but still should be used sparingly. Anyway, defenetly you should use nair more than dash attack, basically everytime that you want more range.. use it, it also set ups for pop up juggles (nair > uptilt)

 

[finalcloud13]

Oh, I meant that for me SHFFLing a running short hop is harder than a SHFFL from a full jump coming down straight above the opponent.

So okay, more Nairs. I didn't know it had more range than dash attack. I'll also try to incorporate wavedashing and waveshining into the game. I suck at it though lol.

By the way, how do you do that thing where it looks like you run off the edge and drop like a rock but you come back up with lasers or a kick or something? Oskurito did it in the match against Dr. Mario at about 2:01.

 

[ipitydatfu]

run off edge - fast fall - jump and bair.
same thing with lasers
run off edge - fast fall - jump and reverse double laser

 

[Lorcl678]

I'll list all the possibilities for the Tech Chasing problem:

Away = The direction Sheik is facing /// Inwards = The direction behind Sheik

Your teching possibilities when being Dthrown by Sheik

1) DI Away + Tech-in-place (You would land close to Sheik's front, within Sheik's Ftilt distance)
2) DI Inwards + Tech-in-place (You would land right behind Sheik)
3) No DI + Tech-in-place (You would land in front of Sheik)

4) DI Away + Away Tech (You would land very far from Sheik)
5) DI Inwards + Away Tech (You would land slightly less further than option 6)
6) No DI + Away Tech (You would land slightly less further than option 5)

7) DI Away + Inward Tech (You would land close to Sheik's back, within Sheik's Ftilt distance)
8) DI Inwards + Inward Tech (You would land very far behind Sheik)
9) No DI + Inward Tech (You would land in the space between option 7 and 8)

Now in your first post, you said that if you don't tech and use the get-up-attack, he'll just shield grab you again. Have you ever thought of the other 3 options you have? When you don' tech, you can either get up regularly with no attack, get up with an attack, roll away, or roll behind. Now if we take this for consideration, this would unlock 12 more options if your opponent does not have enough time to react to your landing.

Your possibilities when being Dthrown without teching

10) DI Away + Get-up
11) DI Inwards + Get-up
12) No DI + Get-up

13) DI Away + Get-up-attack
14) DI Inwards + Get-up-attack
15) No DI + Get-up-attack

16) DI Away + Roll Away
17) DI Inwards + Roll Away
18) No DI + Roll Away

19) DI Away + Roll Inwards
20) DI Inward + Roll Inwards
21) No DI + Roll Inwards

I would go into more detail on what Sheik could use to counter which options, but that would just be too much listing for me. In general, when you don't tech, just remember you have more options than just using the get-up-attack. You can check my matches against Sheiks if you think it'll help. http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Lorcl

 

[finalcloud13]

Thanks a lot, that was a really helpful post. It made me realize that I've been neglecting DI and I should really start practicing DIng because I don't always do it.

There really are a lot of options, aren't there? Is choosing what to do like a game of rock paper scissors? Since I don't know if my opponent is going to techchase me left or right or stay in place and smash or grab, and since my opponent doesn't know how I'll go from your big list, doesn't that make it a guessing game for both of us?

 

[Lorcl678]

When your opponent gets a grab on you, try to "mix things up." Like if tech left and he manages to grab you, have you ever tried...teching left again? Try to think outside the box. Your opponent might expect you to try teching to a different direction, but to avoid that, you can easily avoid the situation by teching in the same place / direction consecutively (just don't repeat this too often that it'll seem like a pattern). Have you ever tried not teching on his first dthrow? There's MANY options in your disposal.

Hm...reading your first post again, he "charges you?" You mean like a dash attack? Against my friends' Sheiks, I tend to crouch cancel majority of their attacks and just follow that CC with a shine. If you watched some of the Sheik matches on my YouTube account, I think in the 2nd match with Nemesis, I went right under him and crouch cancel whatever attack he did. Try crouch cancelling some of his attacks, it's good to experiment some new methods against your friend.

 

[finalcloud13]

I'm so lacking in skill. I play on my friend's Gamecube with a bunch of people so I never get to practice wavedashing or waveshining or wavelanding or whatever other gazillion things there are to learn. I can SHFFL my Dair like 75% of the time, and 50% of the time for Nair. I don't know what I should do. Is smashing a lot a bad thing? (I mean smashing as in Fsmash, Dsmash, and Usmash, not the act of playing SSBM.) Because I smash a Fsmash a lot. Jab jab, Fsmash. It's nice if it hits, but when it doesn't I get shield grabbed so easily, so that's a pain in the ***.

 

[technomancer]

Jab jab, Fsmash. It's nice if it hits, but when it doesn't I get shield grabbed so easily, so that's a pain in the ***.

You answered your own question. Sometimes, it can be worth the risk, if you're significantly ahead, but try not to do it when they're at low % or you're at low%. Try to jab-jab grab to mix it up, you'll catch them if they shield.

Work on your combos. Watch any old Dope, Forward or PC video to get the gist, then newer Chops, Shiz, Forward vids.

 

[finalcloud13]

Do you know how long those guys have been playing?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Between 3 and 6 years, I think.

Basically, once you get the basic tech skill for falco down, he becomes much more deadly because you have so many more options at your disposal.

So work on your tech skill whenever you can, train your muscle memory so you don't have to think about doing something.

 

[finalcloud13]

Whoa. Well okay, I'll try to improve my technical skill whenever I can.

Is it normal for me to be losing more when I try to do things like dodge roll less and wavedash more and do other things in game that I'm not used to doing? Or am I supposed to be seeing immediate improvement the moment I bring a new advanced skill into the game?

 

[forward]

In general, if he is always chasing you, you need to shuffle his face in with d airs. It will out prioritize any of his attack. If he gets smart and starts waiting for those, then start shooting lasers. That's the mind game of this match.

 

[technomancer]

In general, if he is always chasing you, you need to shuffle his face in with d airs. It will out prioritize any of his attack. If he gets smart and starts waiting for those, then start shooting lasers. That's the mind game of this match.

Happy belated valentines day sean

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