Tournament rules - stocks

[Jolt_91]

I have a question concerning the official rulesets of smash 4 and melee.

Why is it, that melee is played with 4 stocks, 8 minutes and smash 4 with 2 stocks and 6 minutes?

Wouldn't it be better if smash 4 used 4 stocks as well?

 

[Pazx]

Yes, yes it would.

Also there is no universal "official" ruleset for Smash 4, a lot of them use 3 stocks instead of 2 stock (which is much better imo).

 

[Xeze]

Technically it would be better with 4 stock, but it would also drag a tournament for a long time. Most tournaments in the US use 2 stock. In Europe almost all countries use 3 stock in their tournaments.

 

[whoknowswhat]

4 stocks would be a bit too much. 3 stocks would be perfect for sm4sh but no one likes change.

 

[wizrad]

Four takes a little bit too long and is asking a bit much of TOs. Three is perfect. You can lose a stock without it being a last stock situation. Two was only tolerable up until July or so, when the meta really picked up pace. Apex definitely needed to be two stock.

 

[Xermo]

Melee's a faster game.

 

[Drewthedude64]

When the transition from Melee to Brawl occured, it was IMMEDIATELY clear that Brawl was much slower than Melee, resulting in stocks being lowered to 3. Smash 4, when it was released, was much to closer to Brawl than it was to Melee (though the recent patches, particularly the shield stun increases, are starting to bring it closer to Melee), so 3 stocks was kept. Also of note is For Glory mode using 2 stock, 5 minutes. I could actually use some info on why competitive play started using 2 stocks, but that's the basic gist of why later games use less stocks. Melee is just FAR faster than both Brawl and Smash 4, though Smash 4 to a slightly lesser extent.

 

[Raijinken]

When the transition from Melee to Brawl occured, it was IMMEDIATELY clear that Brawl was much slower than Melee, resulting in stocks being lowered to 3. Smash 4, when it was released, was much to closer to Brawl than it was to Melee (though the recent patches, particularly the shield stun increases, are starting to bring it closer to Melee), so 3 stocks was kept. Also of note is For Glory mode using 2 stock, 5 minutes. I could actually use some info on why competitive play started using 2 stocks, but that's the basic gist of why later games use less stocks. Melee is just FAR faster than both Brawl and Smash 4, though Smash 4 to a slightly lesser extent.

Strictly timing and that, especially when people aren't used to trumping and the revised edge play, it can still be harder to kill than in Brawl due to the inability to just hog the edge.

Now that people have figured it out, my vote is invariably for 3.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Alternative question: Why not use 2 stocks in Melee? Wouldn't it make matches faster?

 

[Drewthedude64]

Alternative question: Why not use 2 stocks in Melee? Wouldn't it make matches faster?

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not, but 2 stocks... The meta has been around for such a time that 4 stocks is pretty much always agreed upon.

 

[Raijinken]

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not, but 2 stocks... The meta has been around for such a time that 4 stocks is pretty much always agreed upon.

Adopting history without questioning it is a great way to stick with bad systems.

I don't think 4 stock is a bad system for Melee. But "because we've done that for years" isn't a good justification. It's more a result of:
Game moves fast.
Kills happen early.
More stock, to most people, means more fun.

So they set it at the highest logicstically feasible number, basically.

 

[Drewthedude64]

Adopting history without questioning it is a great way to stick with bad systems.

I don't think 4 stock is a bad system for Melee. But "because we've done that for years" isn't a good justification. It's more a result of:
Game moves fast.
Kills happen early.
More stock, to most people, means more fun.

So they set it at the highest logicstically feasible number, basically.

I should've been a bit clearer. What I meant by saying that is that since the meta for Melee has been around for so long, it's been... Not perfected, but something to that extent, in that it consistently brings the best results. I do believe that following "tradition" can be a problem in Smash games, I.E. Delfino Plaza and Halberd being legal while Skyloft and either Wuhu or Pilotwings( I always get the latter two confused) banned? I'd bet if Delfino and Halberd were new to this game, they'd also be banned. Simply because they were legal in the last game, they're legal here too.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

What's wrong with 2 stocks?

 

[Raijinken]

What's wrong with 2 stocks?

Less Smash per round than any larger number. Most people want More Smash, not Less Smash.

There's also theory (but not really scientifically backed results) to suggest that stock count impacts relative character strength, player mindset, and things of that nature. A SD, or a KO Punch, makes a bigger total difference in a 2-stock match than 3, and potential to lose 50% of your total life to a reckless play can theoretically promote extra cautious and defensive play.

But mostly, people just prefer more Smash.