Top Tier Character Edge Guarding

[Tags]

I was wondering if there are specific "go-to" edge guard tactics against top tier characters (Fox etc). Especially how to time d-tilt / jab / f-smash when people try to illusion to edge. If you have any suggestions / preferences to deal with certain edge guarding scenarios please voice them.

 

[BTmoney]

If fox and especially falco DI's poorly it is stupidly east to edge guard them because they lose so many options if they are not close to the ledge.

However that is rare and counting on that is not a good idea. It is really more about how far away they are from the ledge and where they are relative the ledge, above/even/below.

Generally you want to stand a small distance away from the ledge ledge so that dtilt and shield breaker both poke underneath the ledge. If you can just fair them, go off stage and fair (dair etc.). That position beats any illusion.

If they opt for firebird it becomes more of a guessing game but they are likely to firebird to the ledge. If they do not firebird towards the ledge sweetspot, they may choose recover high to a platform or just high to avoid you. Punish them while in special fall or quickly because the move has very small landing lag. Wait for it and react.

Basically if they DI poorly, it's easy and you don't need to think about it. If they have normal/good DI, prepare your position to take away as many options as possible. You CAN cover all of them in a typical edge guarding situation but it may not end you taking a stock, it may end on them getting on to the stage/getting their jump back but you get a punish.


edit:
also, just refer to fox/falco as space animals or spacies. top tier means something else

 

[Crawfish]

I think Iv'e been having trouble edge guarding shiek because of her up b. i usually just wait on stage and continually throw her back off. I fsmash or aerial when possible but it's not often.So I was wondering if there's anything better than "throw till she messes up" when she uses up b.

 

[Roche_CL]

When they are coming from far away but can still land on stage, jump off the plataform and Bair to turn arround, after that you have 2 options:
- They keep falling and you land a Bair
- They see what you are up to and double jump.

They thing is, against not so good sheiks who don't know the matchup, they won't see that Bair coming and they will be killed by it.
Against sheiks who know that, they will have to choose to double jump or not, if you bait the double jump and don't Bair, you can get back to the plat and edgeguard more easily (they are more predictable without their 2nd jump)

If they are not so far away, you can only hang up the ledge, wait for sheik to upB into the stage and punish accordingly. I like WD into stage turnaround Fsmash, or sometimes mess with them, turn around Fthrow them (they'll DI into the stage cause they are scared) followed by Fsmash (most times a tipper).

Also when they double jump into the ledge, sweetspoting it with sheik is really hard, throw a Dtilt if you are on stage, many of them will land, you'll see.

Those are kinda the strategies I use for the matchup

 

[Jolteon]

grab the edge, keep invincibility frames so she can't slap you off, press forward when she is just about to poof (lets you still hold the edge if she aims for it), get up and put her off stage again. rinse and repeat. there is too much end lag on her up+b to do anything before you can hit her, so you can just keep doing this until she dies, unless she has a wall to work with.

if she recovers dumb (like goes near the edge at stage level and not below it) you can wd off -> bair or run off neutral B and it will kill her/put her in a horrible position if her percentage is not too low.

 

[T-Murder]

With Marth there are a lot of edge guarding options.His f-tilt (stabbing the ledge) F-smash right when the player gets back on stage. Counter can even be used as an edge-gaurding tool

 

[mynameisdog4]

If a Falco uses firebird close to the edge, running of the stage and doing a reversed dolphin slash works well since there's no hitbox on firebird.

 

[Crawfish]

If a Falco uses firebird close to the edge, running of the stage and doing a reversed dolphin slash works well since there's no hitbox on firebird.

==retracted statement==
your name is dog

 

[Pistallion]

I think Iv'e been having trouble edge guarding shiek because of her up b. i usually just wait on stage and continually throw her back off. I fsmash or aerial when possible but it's not often.So I was wondering if there's anything better than "throw till she messes up" when she uses up b.

Best possible option is to edguard the whole time to force her to get on the stage, then nair her towards the back of marth so that you hit her back off the stage. make sure you done get hit by her fire onher up B though. Edguarding shiek is hard, though.

 

[T-Murder]

If a Falco uses firebird close to the edge, running of the stage and doing a reversed dolphin slash works well since there's no hitbox on firebird.

That is interesting, I never knew that.

 

[Pistallion]

If a Falco uses firebird close to the edge, running of the stage and doing a reversed dolphin slash works well since there's no hitbox on firebird.

is there a hitbox on fox's firefox?

 

[mynameisdog4]

is there a hitbox on fox's firefox?

For the record I was talking about before Falco starts moving, when he's just stationary and on fire, when he starts moving there is a hitbox. Fox has a hitbox even when he is in the stationary frames, so he will hit you unless you space it perfectly, so I don't bother trying on a fox.

 

[dRevan64]

For the record I was talking about before Falco starts moving, when he's just stationary and on fire, when he starts moving there is a hitbox. Fox has a hitbox even when he is in the stationary frames, so he will hit you unless you space it perfectly, so I don't bother trying on a fox.

It's not actually that hard, but honestly just smacking him with a fair offstage will probably do the job.

 

[mynameisdog4]

It's not actually that hard, but honestly just smacking him with a fair offstage will probably do the job.

Yeah that's what I do, I meant I don't bother doing the reverse up b on fox. I do it on falco because it generally sends them flying a lot faster so DIing back is harder

 

[Pistallion]

For the record I was talking about before Falco starts moving, when he's just stationary and on fire, when he starts moving there is a hitbox. Fox has a hitbox even when he is in the stationary frames, so he will hit you unless you space it perfectly, so I don't bother trying on a fox.

yeah i understood what u meant. i didnt know thre was no hitbox on falco's though

 

[2-Tone]

With Marth there are a lot of edge guarding options.His f-tilt (stabbing the ledge) F-smash right when the player gets back on stage. Counter can even be used as an edge-gaurding tool

Counter is useful against fox's and falco's that have trouble sweet-spotting. Most experienced spacies won't miss it, but if you read a recovery meant to hit you, it's still viable. Options after a counter on the edge are plentiful, as it basically resets your edgeguard. I've seen a lot of spacies taken out by counter + run-off fair, and any of marth's typical edgeguard's will cover them if they decide to go straight up, which I see a lot of them do.

As far as Sheiks, I still have trouble edgeguarding her. What I've found most effective is grabbing the ledge and forcing her to land on the stage. Marth's waveland is quick enough to get a fsmash or a grab upon landing. Also, if she uses her double-jump below the ledge, it is difficult to avoid a d-tilt or fsmash, even f-tilt is a good option.