Toon Link Matchup

[WeirdJoe27]

Okay, so apparently the new trend when using Toon Link is to fire off every projectile you have, relentlessly, and hope to land a kill at some point. Maybe not a new technique, but one that I've been running into a lot lately against Toon Links.

I've mained Dr. Mario since the beginning, and this matchup has always been somewhat tricky, but when I run into the uber projectile spamming Toon Links, there's just not much I can do. I do my best to manuver around the projectiles and guess them, but they always seem a step quicker and I find almost no time to punish. Whether I'm playing aggressively (not smart, I know) or super defensive, it doesn't seem to matter.

Over the past few days I've come across players that use Toon Link's bombs very well. The bombs alone create such a barrier, it's very difficult to get to them. If I manage to get around the bombs, I've probably got a boomerang coming from behind, or the grappling hook ready to knock me out of the air (or worse, grab and punish). When all else fails for them, expect tons of arrows (which can be a pain when recovering, and I know how to recover very well as Doc).

To all my other Doc players out there....... help! How do you approach this joke of a match-up? I know Doc doesn't match up well with several characters, but I hate the helpless feeling I have against these Toon Links. I'd welcome a Rosalina or, dare I say Duck Hunt, any day over this type of Toon Link. I'd love to hear some opinions or, better yet, see a video of a top quality Doc player against a projectile happy Toon Link player. Thanks in advance!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Really most of this matchup comes down to just shielding a lot (TL has a lot of trouble getting past it because his grab sucks) and watching for when he jumps. Cape the Boomerang if you want to put a gap in his spam game. TL isn't scary, he just requires you to be willilng to play a long and slow game where you never let him do anything interesting to break your defenses and beat him by killing him before he KOs you at high percents with B-throw.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Thanks for the reply. That applies to some, but not all Toon Links. The 2-3 I faced in the past couple days were crazy with the bombs. They'd toss one up, toss one at me, boomerang, and then proceed to batter me with arrows, fSmash, uSmash, etc. Sheer chaos!

His grab sucks if he misses, but the ones I went against knew how to use it. While they were pelting me nonstop with every projectile, they also would quickly run up when something hit (and something was bound to hit) and either get the grab off or one of their Smash attacks. Again, I think I was a little aggressive, but still, these Toon Links meant business. They didn't sit in the corner and spam, they were actively trying to kill me. Basically, I tried to just avoid their onslaught and run the clock, but to no avail.

I'll have to continue to practice this match-up, but I'd absolutely love to see how a well seasoned Doc player approaches (and conquers) it. Hopefully someone will post a video at some point.

 

[Dobbston]

Full hop cape + tornado = win

Other stuff that's good:

-Cape OOS

-Up B OOS


There's not a whole lot of depth to this match-up because the tornado is Dr. Mario's best tool against Toon Link's non-projectile moves and full hop cape easily gets past most projectile spam. SH cape isn't bad either but it's punishable on guard. The only other suggestions I can give are mess around with Dair, Uair, and Bair and see what you can get away with. Also, Dtilt is a safe move to poke with.

 

[Artmastercorey]

I actually find mario and dr mario to be a nightmare as a toonlink main myself. Once you get in close its hard for us to do anything because your moves dont lag so you can spam attacks quickly (though not as bad as yoshi) and we cant punish you for it. You can do several moves before we have the chance to do a one to exaggerate my point a bit. This in my opinion is easily in marios/doctor marios favor once you get up close

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I actually find mario and dr mario to be a nightmare as a toonlink main myself. Once you get in close its hard for us to do anything because your moves dont lag so you can spam attacks quickly (though not as bad as yoshi) and we cant punish you for it. You can do several moves before we have the chance to do a one to exaggerate my point a bit. This in my opinion is easily in marios/doctor marios favor once you get up close

I guess that's my problem right now.... getting in close. Most Toon Links I don't have a problem with, but the bomb happy and overall projectile crazy ones are a nightmare. If I can maneuver correctly and get a couple hits, I can usually do some good damage, but chasing them around and trying to dodge a barrage of crap isn't very fun at all.

 

[itsameSMB]

Just kind of echoing what A2ZOMG said, a lot of it is just keeping cool and not giving into the temptation of rushing in. As a supplement to what has been suggested, remember that you too have your own spammable projectile with it's own unique trajectory. If you mix in some short hop and full hop pills (standing kind of works too, just be sure they can't close in), you'll force them to parry, making it more likely they'll lose their rhythm or make a mistake you can capitalize one.

Bombs are tricky, no doubt. Don't focus too much on reflecting them. Just pepper with pills or whatever you can get in with so that bomb spam isn't an option for them (if they just keep soaking it up, good for you; Doc has kill power for days). Don't be afraid to back off, either. Like many Doc matchups, it's a war of attrition. Have better aim and dodging than he does and honestly your pills should combat it just fine.

Another tip that comes to mind is that you should remember the nado tears through certain projectiles if you do it at the right angle. This might not help much with the bombs, but when it comes to arrows (and possibly the boomerang?), if you go into it horizontally at the right height, you should be able to bust them up without taking damage and still distance from him. If you do this, though, be mindful of your spacing so he doesn't just grab you.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I guess it comes down to what I kind of already knew. Patience, smarts and a little luck. Ultimately, it's just a bad match-up (if the TL player is smart), but it's not impossible. I don't run into them that often, but whenever I do, I think I just panic and ultimately play into their hand. In the future, I'll try to approach it a little different and see if I can pull out a win. I remember when the game first came out, I felt that a Rosalina match-up was impossible, but now I tend to win most of them. I just play it a little differently than other match-ups. I still have a ton of trouble with Duck Hunt, but I'll save that for another thread (and, thankfully, I rarely see them anymore).

And again, if anyone can post a video of a good Doc and a good TL, I'd be interested in watching how to the match should go. I really appreciate it, guys!

 

[Artmastercorey]

I guess that's my problem right now.... getting in close. Most Toon Links I don't have a problem with, but the bomb happy and overall projectile crazy ones are a nightmare. If I can maneuver correctly and get a couple hits, I can usually do some good damage, but chasing them around and trying to dodge a barrage of crap isn't very fun at all.

Run up and powershield projectile. Thats all really. Once close we dont have time to throw out another projectile before you can punish us

 

[Deleted member]

I usually just try to go for grabs when the opportunity presents itself. I haven't played that many conservative/defensive TL but the aggressive ones do leave a lot of openings for Doc to take advantage off. Since Doc has shorter frames on his dash attack I just lead into that most of the time followed by a grab, or rush past them and side-smash, side-basicA, Up-B, etc. Once you learn how to close in on their space then you pretty much have it won. Do becareful on high percents though, because that's when TL is full of surprises.

Also! From the beginning of a match try your best not to give away any patterns. I consider myself to be somewhat of an aggressive Doc and it never works out. You have to be patient and try your best to play by their space/projectile game and not give away any patterns or behaviors. I say try to pressure with pill into anything you want once you see an opening. Hope I helped.

 

[Theis]

as a toon link main myself, all his projectiles are anywhere between 18 to 27 frames on start up and it takes 39 frames to pull out a bomb. if you're letting him spam projectiles it means you're respecting them too much. our game is to keep you out of a boxing situation because all our normals come out on frame 6 or later so dont be afraid to just jump in and nair or catch us with something real quick. reflecting our projectiles with your cape is a good option but at a certain distance we can avoid or block anything you reflect from us so in that case just bait our projectiles and punish a reaction.

 

[Artmastercorey]

learn to powershield