Too steal their power or not?

[Blackbelt]

Sheesh, I disapear for a few days, and look what happens: arguments break out. Ah well, let's write some replies.

Oh, and first post edited.

I usually forget that inhale even exists when im using kirby.

You really shouldn't, it's awesome.

Kirbycide is great!

hell yeah.

Kirbycide is cheap and like a kick in the balls!

...still I use it from time to time lol

________

so anyway, I used a fun combo today while fighting a lucario. It was forward throw to fully charged aura sphere blast. My opponent was around 20% and he stood little chance of not getting hit

huh. That is nice.

Interesting...I assume you could do the same thing to Samus...

...And I believe Dedede's hat gives you more movement when you inhale someone, but Kirby already has an advantage without it.

I honestly don't know the differences. Perhaps some could enlighten me on this?

same with me, when i play kirby i just forget about taking their power lol.

You shouldn't.

DO NOT inhale Lucario, it's just asking for a free Dair to the face. Don't swallow, I mean, you can spit him out, of course.

Sorry, but the pros of a powerful projectile outweigh the cons of a Dair to the head.

Not take Falco's power? Are you crazy? If Falco misses a tech, you can do 40+ damage to him!

what?

I think it's foolish in all instances to Copy.

1. You will get punished off the ending lag.
2. If it's a projectile, you won't magically outrange them, because they have the same projectile.
3. You lose strategic/situational Kirbycides.
4. If you need to sacrifice the ability in the pinch, you will get punished off the taunt lag.

1. Not all characters can do this, and you can plan for this.
2. But due to Kirby's small size, you'll have the projectile advantage every time.
3. situational kirbycides<great tactical B moves,
4. Not if you do it that.

It is bit foolish to rule out all Copy abilities.

1. This is character specific. Not all characters can hit Kirby after Copy.
2. If you have a spammy opponent, having their projectile will greatly counter them (especially with Kirby's size).
3. Kirbycides aren't as great as they were in Melee. Even when inhaled off the stage, your opponent can break out AND recover. (character specific).
4. If you needed their Copy ability, you probably didn't need Inhale anyway.

Most Copy abilities have little use, but some (Falco, Sheik, Bowser, Pit, Snake, Sonic, Lucario, maybe Wolf) have more usefullness than Inhale.

Those reasons work too.

You could always do both, that's what I do. Buuut when you copy anyone, you can use many diffrent stratagys and such. But the first post explained it all so I won't blaber about this.

Cool.

Well I think you neglect a couple important issues with most of the characters.

Is it to Kirbycide them?
Will you get more damage in by using their B attack against them, or spitting them out after inhaling them?

If the answer to both of these is yes, then always steal their power. Regardless. You mention not wanting Skeiks B attack? Why? Long range moves are great in general. Never not give yourself a projectile. They are just too useful to not want.

And then you say to take Ganondorfs B move...its too slow to hit often and regardless of how awesome it is...against a good player it is NEVER going to happen. Maybe in a double match you could take it, in a singles match...dont.

Peach's Toad is also good, if you know the timing for using him. So its about 50/50, it depends on how good you are with it. But in general, as a Kirby player you should practice with all characters B attacks that are viable for stealing.

Yoshi is also decent, the damage is enough, and it has good range, but it also is pretty quick and a lot harder to punish than a missed inhale. Its a little iffy, but its certainly a good move to have when your opponent is at higher percents, since everyone loves a little free damage.

Metaknight's Tornado is also great, who cares if he has high priority disjointed hitboxes, your still better off using his own Tornado against him than you are using inhale, plus it adds a new recovery option for Kirby.



Other than those characters I agree with your choices.







Well you should also rule out any copy ability where the owner can counter their own move effectively, in the case of Fox and Falco. Fox the most so, Falco a bit less so, but still they do have reflectors that are easy to time, so a projectile doesnt help you too much with them. But Wolfs has short enough range to make having it reflected less of a problem. Pits arrows are also fast enough to be useful plus useful to edge guard with.

Ok, I admit that gannondorf's sucks. I see that now.

But I still say the Mach Tornado, in a Kirby vs. Metaknight match, is bad to take because the inhale is much more valuable, and I'm not even talking about Kirbycides.

1. Nearly every player will anticipate a Copy and move into a position that is advantageous.]
2. If they're a 'spammy' opponent, they'll just approach. Once they knock out the Copied ability, they'll just go back to camping. Not to mention certain characters can continue to camp while taking less damage than they deal to Kirby.
3. Kirbycides are still as useful, they are just more situational, which means it's more important to have neutral-B Inhale at all times.

Projectile users are really only useful in doubles.
Bowser is only useful for edgeguarding, which Kirby has no problems with.
Sonic is more or less useless.



If you're thinking about the game solely in terms of damage you're going about it wrong. The fact that Kirby is easily comboed means that you don't necessarily want to have your opponent hovering over you while you're recovering from substantial lag. Again, you lose Kirbycides, a reliable kill method.



Answered above and below. Projectiles are countered by projectiles users. Kirby doesn't need them either.



Why? It's nearly useless for Peach, so why use it with Kirby? It's easier, and smarter, to powershield and then punish F-smash or start an F-throw combo.




Inhale has better range than Yoshi's neutral-B. Spitting people out does more damage. You get free damage from Inhale in all instances. Why would you ever Copy Yoshi?



MK can hit you out of Tornado because of his disjointed hitbox. And do you honestly believe that Kirby needs a new recovery option?




The Shine comes out in 1 frame, so distance isn't really an issue with Wolf.

Again, Kirby doesn't need projectiles to aid his edge guard game.
He has multiple jumps, Fence of Pain, Kirbycides, nearly all his aerials are viable when edgeguarding.

-

The only reasons to Copy projectiles is for defensive play if Fox/Wolf or offensive play if Falco, OR for edge-guarding options. Like I said, you do not magically outrange your opponent if you Copy, because they will have the same projectile. This leaves edgeguarding, which is also useless considering Kirby has arguably the best edgeguards in the game.

The only uses I ever saw for Copy in Melee was in doubles. G&W and Kirby lets G&W absorb sausages in a bucket, while Ness and Kirby lets Ness replenish health with PK Flash. I also saw a team that had Kirby jump off and Copy his partner so that the partner got all his jumps back.

In the end, the trade-off isn't worth it. Why risk getting punished off the ending lag of the move? Situational Kirbycides are much more strategic.

I honestly disagree with a lot here.

Yes. In Melee and 64, Copy was pretty much useless due to the effectiveness of Kirbycides (recovery was actually somewhat hard) and lack of decent abilities. But in Brawl, Kirbycides rarely work against decent opponents due to

1. It is easier to break out of attempted Kirbycides.
2. Opponents are no longer sent downwards upon release.
3. More characters can recover from a Kirbycide.

Thanks to these (#2 mostly), opponents can recover back to the stage easier and (character dependent) they can mess with Kirby's recovery since Kirby is no longer in a position to edge-guard like Melee.


In Brawl, projectiles are more important now since approaches are harder for most characters. This leads to some copy abilities becoming actually useful. Granted, the majority of Copy abilities are still worst then Inhale, but some are actually better in certain situations.

I'm just saying not to completely rule out copy in all situations.

Off-topic: How would it be if Kirby copied all specials instead of just neutral?

That's pretty much why I brought up this topic in the first place: Because of the fact that kirbycides are worse and projectiles are more valuable.

And let's not get into what if situations. One can what if all day and get nowhere.

Kirbycides sucked in 64 because there was only one, and Kirby was good enough that he didn't ever have to rely on them.

Yes, some Copy abilities make sense in certain situations, but the very fact that Kirbycides are harder to pull off means that you should keep neutral-B Inhale. Certain Kirbycides only work situationally, so if you come upon a situation where a Kirbycide would be strategic and your neutral-B is something else, there's nothing you can do. There is no reason to trade-off small amounts of damage for potential low-percent kills.

except for the fact that kirbycides are pain in the butt to ontain against a smart opponent, even in those certain situations. And a smart opponent will know those situations, and make sure they don't get into that situation.

 

[_Xanatos_]

I'd actually go with stealing Meta Knight's power because it's quick enough to catch your opponent off guard, and it's a solid recovery option. You wouldn't think you'd need this because Kirby's recovery is already good, but if your opponent is doing a good job of edge-guarding you, you'll wish you had it.

Against Ice Climbers, I wouldn't try sucking them up at all because even if you do get one, the other can still knock you around.

Also, Kirbycides are more situational, so it's less likely that you'll have a chance to pull one off. I think it'd be better in a lot of cases to have a good projectile to at least even the playing field.

 

[metaXzero]

Actually Brawl is the one with 1 Kirbycide (64 and Melee both had throw Kirbycides. Brawl's throws cannot Kirbycide) lol.

 

[Blackbelt]

I'd actually go with stealing Meta Knight's power because it's quick enough to catch your opponent off guard, and it's a solid recovery option. You wouldn't think you'd need this because Kirby's recovery is already good, but if your opponent is doing a good job of edge-guarding you, you'll wish you had it.

Against Ice Climbers, I wouldn't try sucking them up at all because even if you do get one, the other can still knock you around.

Also, Kirbycides are more situational, so it's less likely that you'll have a chance to pull one off. I think it'd be better in a lot of cases to have a good projectile to at least even the playing field.

1. Metaknight can counteract the Tornado just as quickly.
2. Kirby doesn't need more recovery.
3. Kirby is hard to edgeguard against anyway.


I already suggest not taking the Ice Climber's powers, but that's another good reason to me.

And yeah, a good projectile is nice to have.

Actually Brawl is the one with 1 Kirbycide (64 and Melee both had throw Kirbycides. Brawl's throws cannot Kirbycide) lol.

Yeah.

 

[TwilightKirby]

I would like to just point out that if Kirby copies a projectile, he then has TWO projectiles. Sometimes mixing them up can make for a great projectile game.

For example I like Pikachu's ability because his projectile follows the ground just like Kirby's final cutter, but moves at a slower speed. So, you can mix these two together to make a superior projectile game then Pikachu and generally force him to approach you.

So yes two projectiles + short size means Kirby CAN outspam some characters.

 

[kamekasu]

Sorry, but the pros of a powerful projectile outweigh the cons of a Dair to the head.

No. Kirby is light and easily comboed. Dair and Nair are easy to land after a copy and most characters can combo Kirby to death at that point. You're making the assumption that the person you're playing doesn't know how to successfully punish the lag off Copy and combo you.

Not to mention Lucario outruns Kirby, reducing the viability of Copying his neutral-B.

1. Not all characters can do this, and you can plan for this.
2. But due to Kirby's small size, you'll have the projectile advantage every time.
3. situational kirbycides<great tactical B moves,
4. Not if you do it that.

1. Not all characters can Dair, but there is substantial lag that they'll be able to combo you.
2. His size doesn't give any advantage whatsoever.
3. No. "Tactical" B moves can rack up damage in certain situations but they don't necessitate kills. Kirbycides almost always result in a kill if you use them at strategic points in a match. What would you rather do, have one or two low-percent kills or rack up damage only to not get a kill? Defensive Kirbys suck anyways.

I honestly disagree with a lot here.

It's cool that you disagree, but nearly everything I said was fact. If you disagree, at least give a reason.

except for the fact that kirbycides are pain in the butt to ontain against a smart opponent, even in those certain situations. And a smart opponent will know those situations, and make sure they don't get into that situation.

Maybe if you suck. Kirbycides are incredibly reliable. I'm guessing you didn't play Kirby in Melee.

I would like to just point out that if Kirby copies a projectile, he then has TWO projectiles. Sometimes mixing them up can make for a great projectile game.

For example I like Pikachu's ability because his projectile follows the ground just like Kirby's final cutter, but moves at a slower speed. So, you can mix these two together to make a superior projectile game then Pikachu and generally force him to approach you.

So yes two projectiles + short size means Kirby CAN outspam some characters.

Final Cutter on the ground is not a spammable technique. Camping Final Cutter just means someone will powershield/roll/spot dodge it and hit you.

Actually Brawl is the one with 1 Kirbycide (64 and Melee both had throw Kirbycides. Brawl's throws cannot Kirbycide) lol.

There were Swallowcides in 64, but only F-throw Kirbycided. The only time you could Kirbycide was when your opponent was right in front of you which is highly unlikely. Why? Because if your opponent was good he would have sweetspotted the ledge, OR you can edgeguard with a D-Tilt without sacrificing a stock for no reason.

The point is there was only one strategic Kirbycide, and that was Swallowcide. Even that was useless because Kirby had the best edgeguard game in Smash 64.

 

[Waddle]

You spelled 'to' wrong in the title....

 

[Dizzynecro]

zeldas seems to have invinibility frames so its great. It also takes the headache away from dealing with her side b stuff. marios is great if you short hop them for aproaches.
And kirbys size does help for fire breath because it guards his smaller hit box better.

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

I think that almost all long-range projectiles are good to steal, they're very useful to improve the Kirby long distance combat, helping the UpB projectile.

 

[Blackbelt]

No. Kirby is light and easily comboed. Dair and Nair are easy to land after a copy and most characters can combo Kirby to death at that point. You're making the assumption that the person you're playing doesn't know how to successfully punish the lag off Copy and combo you.

Not to mention Lucario outruns Kirby, reducing the viability of Copying his neutral-B.



1. Not all characters can Dair, but there is substantial lag that they'll be able to combo you.
2. His size doesn't give any advantage whatsoever.
3. No. "Tactical" B moves can rack up damage in certain situations but they don't necessitate kills. Kirbycides almost always result in a kill if you use them at strategic points in a match. What would you rather do, have one or two low-percent kills or rack up damage only to not get a kill? Defensive Kirbys suck anyways.



It's cool that you disagree, but nearly everything I said was fact. If you disagree, at least give a reason.



Maybe if you suck. Kirbycides are incredibly reliable. I'm guessing you didn't play Kirby in Melee.




Final Cutter on the ground is not a spammable technique. Camping Final Cutter just means someone will powershield/roll/spot dodge it and hit you.




There were Swallowcides in 64, but only F-throw Kirbycided. The only time you could Kirbycide was when your opponent was right in front of you which is highly unlikely. Why? Because if your opponent was good he would have sweetspotted the ledge, OR you can edgeguard with a D-Tilt without sacrificing a stock for no reason.

The point is there was only one strategic Kirbycide, and that was Swallowcide. Even that was useless because Kirby had the best edgeguard game in Smash 64.

Ok, before I start debating with you, there's just onw thing I want to say:


Any references to the mechanics of older games will be ignored because this is Brawl. It's not Melee or 64, so anything in those have no bearing on Brawl.



Anyway.


1. You are correct that after swallowing there is lag, and there is a chance that characters can counteract. Hence why one outweighs the pros and cons of each individual ability, seeing if it's worth the trouble, hence one of my reasons for this topic in the first place.

2. You are incorrect about Kirby's size having no tactical advantage.

3. One should not depend on the Kirbycide as one's only source for kills. And besides, if you're honestly having trouble getting kills with Kirby, then you're not playing Kirby well.

4. Ok, I'll list the things about your post I disagree with:

A)Projectiles are a valuable tool in singles as well as in doubles
B) Bowser's ability is not just good for edgeguarding, it is also good for racking up damage very quickly.
C) Sonic's is not useless (I admit, I didn't believe it at first either)
D)I am not thinking about purely damage.
E) Kirby's copy ability is not for just edgeguarding, which you seem to be convinced of.

 

[Delta Z]

No. Kirby is light and easily comboed.

Airdodging says hi.

2. His size doesn't give any advantage whatsoever.

But his lack thereof does. If Kirby's harder to hit than his opponent, he has the advantage if said opponent starts camping.

3. No. "Tactical" B moves can rack up damage in certain situations but they don't necessitate kills. Kirbycides almost always result in a kill if you use them at strategic points in a match. What would you rather do, have one or two low-percent kills or rack up damage only to not get a kill? Defensive Kirbys suck anyways.

"Tactical" B moves can rack up damage if they're used right, and you can rely on Kirby's killing moves to finish them off. And he has a lot of killing moves. But I agree with Kirby being better when he's played offensively.

Maybe if you suck. Kirbycides are incredibly reliable. I'm guessing you didn't play Kirby in Melee.

I'm guessing you haven't played Kirby in Brawl. Kirbycides are a lot harder to do now. But he's so much better he really doesn't need to Kirbycide most of the time.

Final Cutter on the ground is not a spammable technique. Camping Final Cutter just means someone will powershield/roll/spot dodge it and hit you.

Which is why you usually camp FC when your opponent camps something that you haven't already copied, or if FC stops it.


Clearing up the D3 ability...I heard somewhere else around here that when you have it and you inhale someone you can move faster than if you didn't.

 

[drSuper]

Not take Falco's power? Are you crazy? If Falco misses a tech, you can do 40+ damage to him!

This is true to an extent. If you didn't know blackbelt, falco's laser can "lock" an opponent in their ground recovery frames. Heres a video of falco doing it to snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ
I have tried it on kirby vs. falco and it can be done. In fact it's actually easier to do using Kirby because he is lower to the ground and the laser hits much easier. Of course this can only be done if you're opponent is an idiot and misses a tech when he knows you have his power. That being said it would be almost impossible to achieve against anyone who plays falco and is aware of this. Still a really cool trick to have up your sleeve though

As someone else stated earlier you can short hop double laser and they both hit Falco if he is standing up. This is fun since falco's lasers shoot right over you

I would like to just point out that if Kirby copies a projectile, he then has TWO projectiles. Sometimes mixing them up can make for a great projectile game.

For example I like Pikachu's ability because his projectile follows the ground just like Kirby's final cutter, but moves at a slower speed. So, you can mix these two together to make a superior projectile game then Pikachu and generally force him to approach you.

So yes two projectiles + short size means Kirby CAN outspam some characters.

idk if this is really any reasoning to steal a projectile. Yes kirby now has two of them but I can't see this varying of projectiles actually becoming useful. Its also called being super annoying

No. Kirby is light and easily comboed. Dair and Nair are easy to land after a copy and most characters can combo Kirby to death at that point. You're making the assumption that the person you're playing doesn't know how to successfully punish the lag off Copy and combo you.

Not to mention Lucario outruns Kirby, reducing the viability of Copying his neutral-B.



1. Not all characters can Dair, but there is substantial lag that they'll be able to combo you.
2. His size doesn't give any advantage whatsoever.
3. No. "Tactical" B moves can rack up damage in certain situations but they don't necessitate kills. Kirbycides almost always result in a kill if you use them at strategic points in a match. What would you rather do, have one or two low-percent kills or rack up damage only to not get a kill? Defensive Kirbys suck anyways.


Maybe if you suck. Kirbycides are incredibly reliable. I'm guessing you didn't play Kirby in Melee.


There were Swallowcides in 64, but only F-throw Kirbycided. The only time you could Kirbycide was when your opponent was right in front of you which is highly unlikely. Why? Because if your opponent was good he would have sweetspotted the ledge, OR you can edgeguard with a D-Tilt without sacrificing a stock for no reason.

The point is there was only one strategic Kirbycide, and that was Swallowcide. Even that was useless because Kirby had the best edgeguard game in Smash 64.

Not once have I been "Combo'ed to death" while using kirby. In fact light characters are harder to combo since they fly farther away when hit. Spacies and fast fallers are the easiest people to combo. Again Air-Dodge does work in this game, proving your point wrong.
Also most of the time when you copy an ability it sends your opponent straight up in the air. As long as you move or prepare to shield right after I can't see anybody landing a "free" hit on you let alone combo'ing you to death. It's not more punishable than any other move
__________

How is Lucario being able to outrun Kirby a valid reason not to take his power? Kirby can outfloat Lucario, does this mean Lucario's own B move useless to himself?
__________

Defensive Kirby's dont s-u-c-k. They suckkkk up, take powers, and counter.
Again you're reasoning is laughable.
__________

You talk about Kirbysides like they are a good then, and then you talk about them like they are a bad thing. Then you bring up their usefulness in 64 and melee. These are obviously different games and Kirbycides in this game play an entirely different role. Sometimes they aren't even worth trying, other times its worth a shot. Thats for you to decide during your match. You can't fully say that having the option to suicide is better than copying an ability.


I hope you're subscribed to this thread and come back to it kamekasu, b/c you have logical flaw written all over you.

 

[OldManTellah]

I disagree on Zelda's. You can use it to negate din's fire instead of airdodging.

 

[Blackbelt]

Airdodging says hi.

But his lack thereof does. If Kirby's harder to hit than his opponent, he has the advantage if said opponent starts camping.

"Tactical" B moves can rack up damage if they're used right, and you can rely on Kirby's killing moves to finish them off. And he has a lot of killing moves. But I agree with Kirby being better when he's played offensively.

I'm guessing you haven't played Kirby in Brawl. Kirbycides are a lot harder to do now. But he's so much better he really doesn't need to Kirbycide most of the time.

Which is why you usually camp FC when your opponent camps something that you haven't already copied, or if FC stops it.


Clearing up the D3 ability...I heard somewhere else around here that when you have it and you inhale someone you can move faster than if you didn't.

Are you certain about the D3 ability? I'll need some testing done for that.

This is true to an extent. If you didn't know blackbelt, falco's laser can "lock" an opponent in their ground recovery frames. Heres a video of falco doing it to snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwaa_Lt9sqQ
I have tried it on kirby vs. falco and it can be done. In fact it's actually easier to do using Kirby because he is lower to the ground and the laser hits much easier. Of course this can only be done if you're opponent is an idiot and misses a tech when he knows you have his power. That being said it would be almost impossible to achieve against anyone who plays falco and is aware of this. Still a really cool trick to have up your sleeve though

As someone else stated earlier you can short hop double laser and they both hit Falco if he is standing up. This is fun since falco's lasers shoot right over you



idk if this is really any reasoning to steal a projectile. Yes kirby now has two of them but I can't see this varying of projectiles actually becoming useful. Its also called being super annoying




Not once have I been "Combo'ed to death" while using kirby. In fact light characters are harder to combo since they fly farther away when hit. Spacies and fast fallers are the easiest people to combo. Again Air-Dodge does work in this game, proving your point wrong.
Also most of the time when you copy an ability it sends your opponent straight up in the air. As long as you move or prepare to shield right after I can't see anybody landing a "free" hit on you let alone combo'ing you to death. It's not more punishable than any other move
__________

How is Lucario being able to outrun Kirby a valid reason not to take his power? Kirby can outfloat Lucario, does this mean Lucario's own B move useless to himself?
__________

Defensive Kirby's dont s-u-c-k. They suckkkk up, take powers, and counter.
Again you're reasoning is laughable.
__________

You talk about Kirbysides like they are a good then, and then you talk about them like they are a bad thing. Then you bring up their usefulness in 64 and melee. These are obviously different games and Kirbycides in this game play an entirely different role. Sometimes they aren't even worth trying, other times its worth a shot. Thats for you to decide during your match. You can't fully say that having the option to suicide is better than copying an ability.


I hope you're subscribed to this thread and come back to it kamekasu, b/c you have logical flaw written all over you.

You are indeed correct that I was unaware of the Laser Lock.

I agree with everything else.


The double Projectile thing doesn't work on many opponents. The only time I've had any luck with it is with mario, Luigi, and PT 9Using Charizard's ability)

I disagree on Zelda's. You can use it to negate din's fire instead of airdodging.

Really? I never knew. I'll have to test that, to see if it's worth it.

 

[Nintendo-pie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't DeDeDe's inhale harder to break out of than Kirby's? You have N/A set for DeDeDe, but it makes swallowcides easier because your opponent won't break out sooner. I'm not 100% sure on this so can someone confirm (I don't have Brawl at the moment so I can't).

 

[Fatalized]

You mispelled "effective"

Lol..check your Marth advice...sry it wuz buggin me..anyways i like the IKE idea. But for any character i like keeping the inhale just incase im losing. I would inhale n jump off the stage. Release them near the bottom of the stage lol

 

[Blackbelt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't DeDeDe's inhale harder to break out of than Kirby's? You have N/A set for DeDeDe, but it makes swallowcides easier because your opponent won't break out sooner. I'm not 100% sure on this so can someone confirm (I don't have Brawl at the moment so I can't).

I have no idea how true that is or not. I need clarification.

You mispelled "effective"

Lol..check your Marth advice...sry it wuz buggin me..anyways i like the IKE idea. But for any character i like keeping the inhale just incase im losing. I would inhale n jump off the stage. Release them near the bottom of the stage lol

Honestly, with Ike, the ability is better.



Initial post updated.

 

[Dizzynecro]

D3's inhale makes you walk REALLY slow when they are in your mouth but makes you jump farther which is good. Its range is also awesome.

 

[Blackbelt]

D3's inhale makes you walk REALLY slow when they are in your mouth but makes you jump farther which is good. Its range is also awesome.

Sounds good to me.



First post updated.

 

[Blackbelt]

I've been doing some testing.


Apparently, the Falcon Punch and the Warlock Punch might be better than originally thought.



You see, due to the fact that you can reverse the direction, it adds a very nice mind game to your arsenal.




Initial post updated.

 

[chingy]

some of the info u have is not right suggestion

 

[Delta Z]

How? Explain.

 

[Fabrian]

Er you can shoot 3 falco lasers in one short hop (tested) 1 rising, 1 at the peak and one right before touching the ground and it is canceled so you can combo the last one or block if you have to.

 

[Delta Z]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4689325#post4689325
A few fire breath techs. For Bowser's ability and maybe Charizard's.

I also found something about laser lock on the Falco board. They were talking about moves that lead into it. They also mention attacks other chars have that lead into infinites. They said that with Kirby a FC spaced close enough the miss the third hit can combo into Vulcan Jab. Which means it can also lead into a laser lock.