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Tomorrow's Patch (15th)

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Illuminado

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So I'm assuming that Nintendo aren't going to be friendly and release concise notes as to what they change like last time in terms of specific character balances etc. Any of you lovely people going to be getting on writing up some community notes? I'm at work tomorrow unfortunately :(.
 

Illuminado

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Ah yeah for sure I was expecting it in some form. Just more wondering with how much fervour people are going to pursue finding them All. I'm well hyped to see what they're going to change and how it may bring meta changes to the game as it stands or otherwise.
 

Illuminado

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*wonders if it comes out late tonight or tomorrow*
Also are the replays not going to work anymore after the patch? :s
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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The one change that has officially been confirmed is that you'll be able to download and use Mewtwo in the game. The older updates will "not" support Mewtwo, so the newest update will be mandatory if you want to use it.
 

FalKoopa

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Ah yeah for sure I was expecting it in some form. Just more wondering with how much fervour people are going to pursue finding them All. I'm well hyped to see what they're going to change and how it may bring meta changes to the game as it stands or otherwise.
Considering the patch is going to affect both the Wii U and 3DS, you can expect the patch notes to get compiled relatively fast.

:231:
 

mario123007

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The one change that has officially been confirmed is that you'll be able to download and use Mewtwo in the game. The older updates will "not" support Mewtwo, so the newest update will be mandatory if you want to use it.
So I'm guessing that when Lucas is avaliable, they will release another update too. And then so forth to future DLCs if there are any... I hope it won't always be balance patch.

*wonders if it comes out late tonight or tomorrow*
Also are the replays not going to work anymore after the patch? :s
This is the main reason why I hate balance patch, good bye fir replays, I have an uncomplete replay that is from laggy online play on my 3DS I want to show but I just can't!
And wait, 1.0.6 has to be refered to 3DS update, what about Wii U? This will be the first balance patch for the Wii U right?
Edit: Whoops, DD post, help here.
 
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Falcon1991

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I admire the dedication of the people who find all the minor little things in each patch, E.G. Sheik performs 4% less damage with such and such an attack.

It must take ages.
 

Illuminado

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So I'm guessing that when Lucas is avaliable, they will release another update too. And then so forth to future DLCs if there are any... I hope it won't always be balapace patch.
On the contrary, I hope they update the game balance wise as much as possible. Something like that only extends its life as a fresh and interesting title. Look at mobas for example. They practically thrive off the buff nerf culture and it keeps people playing. Constantly strive for perfect balance meted by an ever changing meta!
 

Raijinken

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On the contrary, I hope they update the game balance wise as much as possible. Something like that only extends its life as a fresh and interesting title. Look at mobas for example. They practically thrive off the buff nerf culture and it keeps people playing. Constantly strive for perfect balance meted by an ever changing meta!
I've seen a shocking and disappointing amount of resistance to that model on these boards. I can't for the life of me grasp how some people would defend bad balance because keeping it means they'll not have to spend a day or two adapting their play to some slight tweaks in damage or knockback.

Can confirm about Dota, though. Every time the game starts getting stagnant and the pro hero pool (which trickles into pubs) more or less solidifies, a patch happens that keeps those heroes strong, brings others into the spotlight, and the game is almost always more fun for it. Except the pre-through-post-TI4 snowball meta. No one liked that.
 

LunarWingCloud

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Trust in the Smash community. It was the community that compiled all the nerf and buff data between games, and there is no way they won't be on top of this. Expect to know all the changes within a week or two.
 

wedl!!

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Except the pre-through-post-TI4 snowball meta. No one liked that.
are you trying to say that a meta full of stubby bearded men screaming "HOHOHAHAZIPZAP" is better? the only bad part about TI4 was grand finals, actually.
 

Eisal

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I hope for buffs, rather than nerfs. Of course there's this whole power creep deal, but at this point I don't think it's too dangerous to buff characters a little bit rather than nerfing.
 

Lily♫

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On the contrary, I hope they update the game balance wise as much as possible. Something like that only extends its life as a fresh and interesting title. Look at mobas for example. They practically thrive off the buff nerf culture and it keeps people playing. Constantly strive for perfect balance meted by an ever changing meta!
Coming from the CS:GO community, let's just say that constant buffs/nerfs can also cause a ton of complaining. The most recent patch buffed some of the SMGs, and now everyone complains that the game is too "run and gun," the same reason people complained about the Tec-9. That got nerfed too, but they didn't nerf what people complained about and now everyone STILL complains. Don't get me started on the AWP. Almost everyone hates the nerf. Every time we discuss patches there we all know it's more likely that more cosmetics or things that make the company money are getting priority.

It's a hit-or-miss scenario with constant updates. If you keep in touch with your community on what they want, along with the professional players, you can please a lot of people, but when changes are made with little or no input from the community, people are going to complain.
 

LancerStaff

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Wonder when Dantarion will put the data into his Master Core thing... It'd be a heck of a lot easier to figure out the changes when we can compare the old and new data.
 

DK-RULES

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I am kind of back and forth on the nerd/buff.
In general, I would always say to buff lower tiers a bit to make them more competitive to use. I am not a fan of nerfs unless it seems a great majority of people use that one or two characters to secure wins because it is more consistent. Diddy seems to be the most attacked player because of the banana or HooHah thing. I believe this takes skill to time and pull off consistently, as do other moves out there.
However, and I don't have data for or against this, if I took 50 people of equal skill, and had them train 8 hours a day on one character and I took another 50 to practice just Diddy, and most Diddy players win most matches, then it needs to be balanced.
At the end of the day, IMO, a player should be able to take any character and convert to wins based on their skill level, not because a character is easier to win with. Don't know if that all made sense. Just some thoughts.
 

AreJay25

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Anyone else just not playing today in anticipation of the patch? Wouldn't want to practice things today that might be gone tomorrow...
 

Doruge

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If you think Diddy's grab combos are going anywhere, you're delusional.
 

LancerStaff

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If you think Diddy's grab combos are going anywhere, you're delusional.

Not really. The big reason why Dorf is so low and Rosalina is so high is FFAs. The former is great at them while the later is absolutely terrible. So Dorf has to be held back and Rosalina needs to be ahead, so to speak, to be relatively balanced for FFAs. Diddy is okay at FFAs, where combos really don't happen. Nerfing a combo won't effect his FFA performance greatly.
 

mario123007

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On the contrary, I hope they update the game balance wise as much as possible. Something like that only extends its life as a fresh and interesting title. Look at mobas for example. They practically thrive off the buff nerf culture and it keeps people playing. Constantly strive for perfect balance meted by an ever changing meta!
No, please don't...
If they are willing to do that, it will make us have to get used to the patch everytime, and keep bragging about the new patch. It may even make the game even more unbalanced, and again, would you like your replays keep getting deleted every update? Or always worried your main will get nerfed, and a useful tech get removed? (That is not even an OP tech)
 
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Doruge

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Not really. The big reason why Dorf is so low and Rosalina is so high is FFAs. The former is great at them while the later is absolutely terrible. So Dorf has to be held back and Rosalina needs to be ahead, so to speak, to be relatively balanced for FFAs. Diddy is okay at FFAs, where combos really don't happen. Nerfing a combo won't effect his FFA performance greatly.
Um....okay? None of that proves that Diddy's combos will be nerfed....just because it doesn't effect affect his FFA performance, that doesn't mean there's a good chance of it happening.
 

BeetleJoJo

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Man, As long as Marth and Lucina get buffed with better Approachs and a Neutral game as well as more and better setups fpr KOs, I am fine with lsoing my replays.
 

Lily♫

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No, please don't...
If they are willing to do that, it will make us have to get used to the patch everytime, and keep bragging about the new patch. It may even make the game even more unbalanced, and again, would you like your replays keep getting deleted every update? Or always worried your main will get nerfed, and a useful tech get removed? (That is not even an OP tech)
If you main deserves a nerf it deserves a nerf. Nobody wants to flaunt having their main be the "most op" or "no skill" character. Balance patches can prevent this. Too many, however, can make it worse. Asymmetric balance is a fun thing. You want to reach a "perfect imbalance" between the characters. Having a metagame helps improve the game's balance and keeps players invested in the game. When there's no counter to a meta, you have to either find one or have a patch.
 

mario123007

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If you main deserves a nerf it deserves a nerf. Nobody wants to flaunt having their main be the "most op" or "no skill" character. Balance patches can prevent this. Too many, however, can make it worse. Asymmetric balance is a fun thing. You want to reach a "perfect imbalance" between the characters. Having a metagame helps improve the game's balance and keeps players invested in the game. When there's no counter to a meta, you have to either find one or have a patch.
That's right, too much will make it worse, I hope a balance patch comes only twice this year, having patches too frequently isn't a good thing.
If it is a character that isn't even bragged as OP, not it doesn't. But some that indeed buffed and turns well I'm fine with that. I don't like unnecessary (or apparent) changes.
 

Illuminado

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That's right, too much will make it worse, I hope a balance patch comes only twice this year, having patches too frequently isn't a good thing.
If it is a character that isn't even bragged as OP, not it doesn't. But some that indeed buffed and turns well I'm fine with that. I don't like unnecessary (or apparent) changes.
It just sounds like you haven't played a lot of frequent change competitive games mate. Patching and a constant dialogue/finger on how the meta develops through the community and nerfs/buffs based on that can be nothing but good. As long as it isnt a knee jerk reaction based on people being "AH ****, I CANT DEAL WITH THIS CHARACTER ITS OP", which is not what im arguing for. Just look at LoL. Goes through frequent changes on practically a monthly basis which end up rotating the large roster of characters so that others see play. Its very easy for a professional or competitive game to get stale when you have to sit and watch the same characters be played at tournaments forever. I'll get shouted down for this, but its why I think the hype about Melee still after all these years is a joke. If the game stays the same, the meta will be completely solidified after a while, by which point there will be a dominant strategy and a character that will give you the highest chance of winning. Tournaments can then be pretty much reduced to everyone has to pick that or a few within a certain window to even have a chance at competing. Not interesting to watch or even play I'd argue.

But yeah. I'm hyped for Metwo :D.x
 

mario123007

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It just sounds like you haven't played a lot of frequent change competitive games mate. Patching and a constant dialogue/finger on how the meta develops through the community and nerfs/buffs based on that can be nothing but good. As long as it isnt a knee jerk reaction based on people being "AH ****, I CANT DEAL WITH THIS CHARACTER ITS OP", which is not what im arguing for. Just look at LoL. Goes through frequent changes on practically a monthly basis which end up rotating the large roster of characters so that others see play. Its very easy for a professional or competitive game to get stale when you have to sit and watch the same characters be played at tournaments forever. I'll get shouted down for this, but its why I think the hype about Melee still after all these years is a joke. If the game stays the same, the meta will be completely solidified after a while, by which point there will be a dominant strategy and a character that will give you the highest chance of winning. Tournaments can then be pretty much reduced to everyone has to pick that or a few within a certain window to even have a chance at competing. Not interesting to watch or even play I'd argue.

But yeah. I'm hyped for Metwo :D.x
You got me, I ain't a competitive player, yet. But I am a fan of those tournaments. Speaking of Melee, I still consider it one of the greatest Smash bros game, but yeah, I often feel boring of seeing Fox VS Fox all the time. Releasing patch may solve this problem, but as the newest game has been already made balance comparing to previous title, just a minor changes will do the job.

I had never played LoL, but my sister is a big fan of it, and it's a online game, and it has a more huge competitive community compare to Smash Bros, so I'm not that surprised that they have patches frequently.

I'm hyped for Mewtwo too! Even though I'm sure I won't get him this month.
 
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Warlock*G

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I hope for buffs, rather than nerfs. Of course there's this whole power creep deal, but at this point I don't think it's too dangerous to buff characters a little bit rather than nerfing.
YESZ! :4falcon: BUFF FALCON!
 

axelalexzander

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I want to see replays get a massive buff. Oh man I hate not being able to rewind and fast forward my replays. I wonder if they'll do anything to address all the UI issues such as having to repick your gamertag, stock mode, ect. every single time.

As far as character nerfs I do hope they do a very thorough balance patch tomorrow and continue to give nerfs/buffs on a consistent basis. I want as many competitive characters as possible.
 
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Pyr

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It just sounds like you haven't played a lot of frequent change competitive games mate. Patching and a constant dialogue/finger on how the meta develops through the community and nerfs/buffs based on that can be nothing but good. As long as it isnt a knee jerk reaction based on people being "AH ****, I CANT DEAL WITH THIS CHARACTER ITS OP", which is not what im arguing for. Just look at LoL. Goes through frequent changes on practically a monthly basis which end up rotating the large roster of characters so that others see play. Its very easy for a professional or competitive game to get stale when you have to sit and watch the same characters be played at tournaments forever. I'll get shouted down for this, but its why I think the hype about Melee still after all these years is a joke. If the game stays the same, the meta will be completely solidified after a while, by which point there will be a dominant strategy and a character that will give you the highest chance of winning. Tournaments can then be pretty much reduced to everyone has to pick that or a few within a certain window to even have a chance at competing. Not interesting to watch or even play I'd argue.

But yeah. I'm hyped for Metwo :D.x
Riot is horrible at game balance. They took 3 years to get Urgot to a playable state, created the term "Olaf-ing," left Eve alone for a year while she became a troll pick until her rework, consistently nerf and have to do game-wide updates every season to fix it, and, to top it all off, perform very knee-jerk nerfs/buffs based on community reactions.

They are not good at balance. If you need a recent update, check Season 5's 2nd and 3rd jungle update, then like the 5th when Cinder was added. Or Veigar recently. Or the fix to all issues is to make it a skillshot.

Riot is pretty bad and very, VERY much does knee-jerk nerfs. They also don't know what the definition of power-seep is.
 
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