[To be developped] A new kill confirm for Doc?

MistressRemilia

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#1
So i was messing around in training mode, trying to find the optimal combo out of a mssed tech on a platform of Battlefield starting with either Bair & Nair, writing stuff about a future project where i'll list as many mixups Doc can apply against his opponents, and then, i discovered it:
It was against a Fox, at 72%, i wanted to kill Fox quick with something other than Dthrow -> Fair, so i did a bair, and i noticed that by spacing it similarly to Dthrow -> RAR Bair -> UpB at lower %, we actually get a weak bair.
Interested by my discovery, i'm trying a bunch of stuff, trying to find if anything combos into weak bair.
And then, i just discovered it: DThrow to Weak RAR Bair to Reverse UpB.
This combo, on Battlefield close to the ledge ( not too much either, we can avoid dying by doing it not just very close to the ledge, but still close enough, if you see what i mean ), killed Fox at 72%, i'll probably give more information on this thread as time goes on, such as the range where the combo works, and if it is character specific or not ( most likely )
The way it works is that, you'll have to input Bair earlier than usual so that you get the Bair, and then follow with Jump UpB.

Anyway, on this discovery, i'd like us Docs to work on it! Hopefully, we'll find great stuff.

Edit 1: Tested with Sheik on Town&City: The combo is significantly harder to true combo, most notably the bair at the beginning. DI away makes it much easier. I've been able to kill Sheik at 63% out of it, and it is my only success with the combo that ended up true w/out DI Away. So far, so good, i guess.

Edit 2: Tested with Diddy Kong. I think on both of them, we'll need perfect RAR Bair in order to true combo into UpB, so it won't be easy, but yeah, it does work on Diddy as well, good to know
 
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A2ZOMG

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#3
This sounds incredibly useless. Inferior to D-throw F-air in all situations. Very hard to execute, vulnerable to DI (you will never land this on a player who DIs in), and not even the best punish.

On Diddy just do the frametrap I labbed and F-smash him if he airdodges. You have no reason to try to make your life more difficult with a "confirm" that is both extremely unreliable and hard to do.

And for that matter if I am seeing the situation you described in the match you played, Fox would have died extremely easily to angled F-smash anyway off the missed tech.
 
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MistressRemilia

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#4
This sounds incredibly useless. Inferior to D-throw F-air in all situations. Very hard to execute, vulnerable to DI (you will never land this on a player who DIs in), and not even the best punish.

On Diddy just do the frametrap I labbed and F-smash him if he airdodges. You have no reason to try to make your life more difficult with a "confirm" that is both extremely unreliable and hard to do.

And for that matter if I am seeing the situation you described in the match you played, Fox would have died extremely easily to angled F-smash anyway off the missed tech.
The thing is that frametraps are, well, frametraps.
This confirm is true, only MU inexperience or poor reaction may allow us to get such things as that.
I do agree it's kind of restrictive, it only work few% before DThrow Fair will start being true, and has to be excecuted if you want to convert it into a kill, but still, it is a neat trick that may be useful in some cases, trust me.
 

A2ZOMG

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#5
The thing is that frametraps are, well, frametraps.
This confirm is true, only MU inexperience or poor reaction may allow us to get such things as that.
I do agree it's kind of restrictive, it only work few% before DThrow Fair will start being true, and has to be excecuted if you want to convert it into a kill, but still, it is a neat trick that may be useful in some cases, trust me.
My frametrap is actually a 100% guaranteed KO confirm on all DI, only restricted sometimes by platforms.

Yours isn't even close. It fails on DI in, which a good player will do vs Doc D-throw.
 
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MistressRemilia

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#6
My frametrap is actually a 100% guaranteed KO confirm on all DI, only restricted sometimes by platforms.

Yours isn't even close. It fails on DI in, which a good player will do vs Doc D-throw.
You're right, but it isn't impossible for us to condition into a specific kind of DI, we have a good variety of combos varying in function of the DI. I'm convinced i may be able to make something out of that combo, or at least, a strong enough mixup.
 
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A2ZOMG

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#7
You're right, but it isn't impossible for us to condition into a specific kind of DI, we have a good variety of combos varying in function of the DI. I'm convinced i may be able to make something out of that combo, or at least, a strong enough mixup.
People who know the matchup against Doc will typically DI inward if they're not super heavies who don't eat as much out of Doc D-throw.

Outside of matchup inexperience and the very rare last ditch bet to avoid getting F-aired out of D-throw (which is strictly harder to do on inward DI, no less), not sure how you plan on conditioning people into DIing out against Doc. Hence why I put no faith in your setup competitively. It's difficult, unreliable, AND suboptimal.
 
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MistressRemilia

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#8
People who know the matchup against Doc will typically DI inward if they're not super heavies who don't eat as much out of Doc D-throw.

Outside of matchup inexperience and the very rare last ditch bet to avoid getting F-aired out of D-throw (which is strictly harder to do on inward DI, no less), not sure how you plan on conditioning people into DIing out against Doc. Hence why I put no faith in your setup competitively. It's difficult, unreliable, AND suboptimal.
So, after plying a bunch of onlie with the focus of trying out the combo in itself.
I can say for sure that this combo will remain mostly a mixup, but i did find some use: The main selling point of it being the earlier% where it works & may allow us to get a kill. But due to the reliance on a certain stage position ( Near ledge, can't convert into a kill otherwise ) and relative difficulty of it & not covering DI In makes it kind of a risk, you might as well just do something else. But still, it has a small niche use that is kind of specific but deserves attention nonetheless.
Up to you to think it's too painfully needy of a specific situation or some other problem, this has been my opinion based on experience with a few players here & there.
 
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